foreign workers

bytesize

ok this is not a bashing or anything thread against foreign workers, more so about employers of workers. and if anyone suggests i am racist in some way for talking about this, i am married to a foreign woman and have many friends of different nationalities/race/religion.

ok to the point...

i was told something before along the lines that in an equal opportunity workplace, there has to be a minimum percentage of Irish workers and/or foreign workers. in other words if there are 10 staff, then there has to be a minimum of that 10 that are Irish.

now looking at most work places it doesn't seem to be like this. maybe it has to be within the overall company and not within each outlet of that company.

the reason i am bringing this up is that my little sister has just been forced out of her job by a new manager who is a foreigner. this manager only seems to hire his fellow people and while working they all speak their own language which excludes English speakers. not only that but he seems to be more lenient towards his fellow country men and a complete cùnt towards everyone else.

as i dont know much about this section of employment, i was hoping one of ye could shed some light on the subject. thanks.

m83

racist

BigTommyBomb

Tell your sister to get a better job as she is obviously right down on the ladder if she is competing with immigrants for jobs.

Red Hand

bytesize wrote:

ok this is not a bashing or anything thread against foreign workers, more so about employers of workers. and if anyone suggests i am racist in some way for talking about this, i am married to a foreign woman and have many friends of different nationalities/race/religion.

ok to the point...

i was told something before along the lines that in an equal opportunity workplace, there has to be a minimum percentage of Irish workers and/or foreign workers. in other words if there are 10 staff, then there has to be a minimum of that 10 that are Irish.

now looking at most work places it doesn't seem to be like this. maybe it has to be within the overall company and not within each outlet of that company.

the reason i am bringing this up is that my little sister has just been forced out of her job by a new manager who is a foreigner. this manager only seems to hire his fellow people and while working they all speak their own language which excludes English speakers. not only that but he seems to be more lenient towards his fellow country men and a complete cùnt towards everyone else.

as i dont know much about this section of employment, i was hoping one of ye could shed some light on the subject. thanks.

Positive discrimation was the policy in some companies and organisations in the past, but is not a law as far as I know in Ireland.

In the US, there have been, on a local level, some laws passed to help encourage people (who were discriminated from working in some areas in the past) to join the workforce... a quota as it were.

In Ireland, there really hasn't been such discrimination against foreign workers by and large, so such policies aren't encouraged here.

aidan_walsh

this is not a bashing or anything thread against foreign workers...

if anyone suggests i am racist in some way for talking about this, i am married to a foreign woman and have many friends of different nationalities/race/religion.

i was told something before along the lines that...

Its amazing how formulaic these threads tend to be.

billy the squid

Firstly, not all immigrants are doing menial work, so to assume that the OP's sister has a **** job because she is competeing with immigrants is idiotic.

To the OP, you will have to clarify how she was "forced out" of her job. Legislation prevents people being made redundant if the job itself is not being made redundant. What you are describing is displacement, which is illegal.

i was told something before along the lines that in an equal opportunity workplace, there has to be a minimum percentage of Irish workers and/or foreign workers. in other words if there are 10 staff, then there has to be a minimum of that 10 that are Irish.

No such law exists.

Your sister may have a case of constructive dismissal at the Equality Tribunals, see a solicitor.

Oryx

bytesize wrote:

ok this is not a bashing or anything thread against foreign workers, more so about employers of workers....

But it is a bashing thread about foreign workers.

Anyway... The employment equality law says that no one can be discriminated against because of their race or nationality. So if your sis has been forced out of her job unfairly let her take a case for unfair dismissal. Likewise her co workers can take a case if they feel they are discriminated against by their manager (whether foreign or not).

http://www.siptu.ie/YourRights/TUFGuideToLabourLaw/Equality/EmploymentEqualityAct1998/

whiskeyman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSb1Orv_shE

'nuf said...

gyppo

OP has a point. I personally know of a case within a nursing home in the west, where in the past 4 years, 17 out of a staff of 20 irish people have been replaced by foreign labour.
All of those who remain are finding their allocated hours (casual labour system) being reduced to the point where it is no longer worthwhile to remain there.
Of course, I've no doubt whatsoever that the non-irish employees are on the minimum wage /sarcasm

bytesize

KtK, billy & jeremiah: thanks for your replies. I had said that she should talk to someone about being forced out/constructive dismissal. what i was wondering is if employers were only allowed to hire foreign staff. but ill say to her again about the constructive dismissal situation and see if she wants to move forward with it.

billy in relation to how she was being forced out. she has come home many many times detailing of how her manager demeans her in front of other staff and customers as if she cant do her job when she knows very well how to do it. he has tried to make it difficult for her and other staff to work their through means of intimidation and plain lack of respect. there have been too many times when he has tried to make her look foolish in front of customers.

another thing she finds unfair is how he continuously and too oftenly talks to some staff in his own language in the presence of people who obviously would not understand. this is all well and good, only he is the manager and should not be allowed to do this while staff who cannot understand are in their presence. bthe thing about it is he has hired 2 or 3 new staff and all are of his own country.

the company also has a known history within its workers of forcing employees out.

she was/is only working in a part time job as she is in college but that shouldnt make a difference... [bigtommybomb]

and as more often than not, aidan has contributed nothing but shìt.

Tom Dunne

bytesize wrote:

and as more often than not, aiden has contributed nothing but shìt.

Who's aiden?

Anyway, an internet forum is not the place to get information on what to do. Taking your sister's situation at face value, it does appear to be a case of unfair dismissal.

If, on the other hand, she simply quit, she may not have as strong a case.

Either way, go get some proper, real-world advice.

whiskeyman

bytesize wrote:

the company also has a known history within its workers of forcing employees out.

So, the workers know the company has a history of forcing people out, yet they are quite happy to put up with it?


(Bets on this is locked by post 20 btw...)

Attol

Menial jobs are all that foreigners are capable of?! My dad is a director in a successful company and my mother works by him. I worked in a "menial job" and was very successful in that as well. There is no way to say that we're scabbing off the state or anything. I just don't understand this whole thing. I have as much right to be here as anyone else thanks to the EU. We work hard and earn our money ourselves. Just because someone else can do your job better than you does not mean anything. Nobody would hire a worse worker for the same pay.

Pigman II

whiskeyman wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSb1Orv_shE

'nuf said...

niiicce

aidan_walsh

bytesize wrote:

the company also has a known history within its workers of forcing employees out.

Does this include before the guy who "forced your sister out" was hired? If so, doesn't this suggest that the culture of the organisation is at fault, and not just this individual?

Failing that, the guy is a dick. Period. It doesn't matter what nationality he is. Which you say you know but clearly feel is important enough to mention a number of times, along with the usual brand FUDsicles that accompany these threads.

I wonder did he also geta free car and house when he moved here from the government...

bytesize

tom dunne wrote:

Who's aiden?

Anyway, an internet forum is not the place to get information on what to do. Taking your sister's situation at face value, it does appear to be a case of unfair dismissal.

If, on the other hand, she simply quit, she may not have as strong a case.

Either way, go get some proper, real-world advice.

thanks for your reply, but if she decided to bring this forward, the fact that she quit would have no barring. i know the law on this and have also provided links to back it up.


http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/employment/unemployment-and-redundancy/dismissal/unfair_dismissal
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/employment/unemployment-and-redundancy/dismissal/constructive-dismissal






before this turns into the wrong topic. while i did bring up about constructive dismissal, my main question was about percentages of workers within an equal opportunity company. both questions are welcome to criticism(both positive and negative) and answers, but i hope it doesn't get side-tracked.


thanks for the replies.

digitally-yours

BigTommyBomb wrote:

Tell your sister to get a better job as she is obviously right down on the ladder if she is competing with immigrants for jobs.

Completely agree.

If you are doing a job at the bottom of the ladder the competition is fierce.

Advise her to move up the chain.

Experienced that my self as a foreigner.when I was workinng down the line.

Now No Worries

bytesize

Attol wrote:

Menial jobs are all that foreigners are capable of?! My dad is a director in a successful company and my mother works by him. I worked in a "menial job" and was very successful in that as well. There is no way to say that we're scabbing off the state or anything. I just don't understand this whole thing. I have as much right to be here as anyone else thanks to the EU. We work hard and earn our money ourselves. Just because someone else can do your job better than you does not mean anything. Nobody would hire a worse worker for the same pay.

i think you may have taken this the wrong way. i in no way feel menial jobs are all that foreign workers are capable of. as i have said, my wife is foreign and i have a lot of foreign friends. i have first hand experience working with foreign workers and my father employs foreign workers also. so i hope you can read through again and see i wasnt implying foreign workers can only work in menial jobs.

whiskey- she is doing it part time as she is in college so she put up with it. her bf used to work there but was forced out on bogus issues. she has had enough of the forcing and decided it she could no longer work in a place like that.

aidan-the reason i brought up that the manager was foreign was the fact that my main query was about percentages of workers in an equal opportunity employment so obviously nationality is an issue.

digitally yours- as it is simply a part time job, it is harder to move up the ladder when time must be spent studying and doing assignments and stuff. she wouldnt be able to commit anymore time to work in a higher position as it would require more time consumption.


a last example. i work night shifts. i have been doing said night shifts for over 2 and a half years now. in that time there have been no less than 10 new staff members added to the night shift after me. not a single one of them were irish.

when i work at the weekend on night shifts 2 out of the 3 days i am the only irish person working, there can be up to 13 staff on not including me and i would be the only irish. out of all the staff, there are more foreign than irish in the workforce of night positions. so my query from the start of this thread to now was, was this allowed.

thanks again for your feedback

Black Swan

OP is this an Irish company/corporation or foreign headquartered/owned? If not Irish, then the foreign corporation will have policies and procedures regarding employment that may be referenced in a complaint?

Karoma

as i have said, my wife is foreign and i have a lot of foreign friends. i have first hand experience working with foreign workers and my father employs foreign workers also.

"Some of my best friends are foreigners." - lollers.
You should really make a website like http://www.blackpeopleloveus.com

You seem to have the gripe more than any sister. Does she exist? Really? If her BF was genuinely booted out for "bogus" reasons - then why didn't he pursue legal recourse?


Whiskeyman: you lose.

Karl Hungus

bytesize wrote:

KtK, billy & jeremiah: thanks for your replies. I had said that she should talk to someone about being forced out/constructive dismissal. what i was wondering is if employers were only allowed to hire foreign staff. but ill say to her again about the constructive dismissal situation and see if she wants to move forward with it.

billy in relation to how she was being forced out. she has come home many many times detailing of how her manager demeans her in front of other staff and customers as if she cant do her job when she knows very well how to do it. he has tried to make it difficult for her and other staff to work their through means of intimidation and plain lack of respect. there have been too many times when he has tried to make her look foolish in front of customers.

another thing she finds unfair is how he continuously and too oftenly talks to some staff in his own language in the presence of people who obviously would not understand. this is all well and good, only he is the manager and should not be allowed to do this while staff who cannot understand are in their presence. bthe thing about it is he has hired 2 or 3 new staff and all are of his own country.

the company also has a known history within its workers of forcing employees out.

she was/is only working in a part time job as she is in college but that shouldnt make a difference... [bigtommybomb]

and as more often than not, aidan has contributed nothing but shìt.

I've known a couple of people who've experienced bullying in the workplace from those of other nationalities, much along the same lines, so I wouldn't say this is an isolated incident, but I think that After Hours really isn't the place to get any serious advice on the matter.

professore

BigTommyBomb wrote:

Tell your sister to get a better job as she is obviously right down on the ladder if she is competing with immigrants for jobs.

This is a racist statement - the OP had a legit question.

bytesize

Karoma wrote:

"Some of my best friends are foreigners." - lollers.
You should really make a website like http://www.blackpeopleloveus.com

You seem to have the gripe more than any sister. Does she exist? Really? If her BF was genuinely booted out for "bogus" reasons - then why didn't he pursue legal recourse?


Whiskeyman: you lose.

my point was to show that i have different nationalities in my everyday life and that this isnt racist.

and yes my sister does exist and so does her problem. and as ive said, it is more about the percentage of workers in an equal opportunity company, not the constructive dismissal part.

and yes whixkeyman..... YOU LOSE!!!

source

OP I had a similar thing happen to me, but when i went to the citizens advice bureau i was told that because i was part time the relevant employment legislation would not cover me. Might be something to check out before talking to an expensive solicitor.

SimpleSam06

bytesize wrote:

my point was to show that i have different nationalities in my everyday life and that this isnt racist.

From what you said in your opening post, you and your sister believe these problems are racially motivated. These are fairly serious allegations.

Lets put the shoe on the other foot so; if a foreign worker was suffering intimidation and abuse in an effort to force them out of a job, based on their race or culture, what would happen?

What you need to do is carefully document exactly what happens on a day to day basis. Big red flags are if racially abusive terms are used, such as "paddies", the speaking in their own language in the workplace is another no-no. Specific incidents where she felt culture, language or race were an issue are very important to document. Once you have compiled a full list of complaints, take them to the department of justice, law reform, and equality, and they'll hear you out.

What's more likely is that any abuse is contextual; excessive hassle for minor problems and so on, with no basis in race, whatever the motivation behind it is. If thats the case you'd be better off to take the problem to head office. Humiliating staff in front of customers is a serious problem in any company, and one they won't take lightly since it makes the company look bad.

Mostly upper management don't care as long as the money keeps rolling in, but if there are legal rumblings on the horizon, you can bet they'll sit up and take notice.

Be prepared for the manager in question to defend themselves vigorously, they didn't reach that level by being pushovers.

Suffering this kind of abuse is one of the most demeaning things a person can have to go through, and it can have detrimental long term effects on a person's ability to function in the workplace. There are support structures in place to deal with it, however.

delta_bravo

I love these threads. : "Im not racist....BUT"