What the hell was going on at the RDS exams yesterday?

sylvesterallein

At a linguistics exam at the RDS at 6 yesterday, where like at any exam you need peace and quiet, there was loud music, cheering etc. etc. coming from next door Don't know if it was to do with the elections or some kind of party, but it was impossible to concentrate! People moved right up to the front to get away, but you couldn't escape it. This is not good enough!

Blush_01

The count was on in the RDS yesterday alright, so that was probably it.

emeraldstar

but the counting was on over in the Main Hall area wasnt it? Not in Simmonscourt..

delta_bravo

The counts were held in Main Hall and Shelbourne Hall . If your exam was in Simmonscourt it wouldnt have been the elections

Notorious

My girlfriend was telling me about that, said she could hear every word of a Shikra song, followed by cheering. Can't you complain if it effected your exam?

Stepherunie

Yeah it's in the exams thread. Maybe Vainglory can fill in the info again. It's and extenuating circumstances form I do believe.

Stabshauptmann

Im not sure thats the appropriate procedure, Normally extenuating circumstances will include serious illness, hospitalisation, accident,
family bereavement or other serious personal or emotional circumstances.

There was a loud noise which effected everyone sitting the exam doesnt seem like it fits the above criteria.

Stepherunie

Actually Kap, the form I was talking about that Vainglory referred to was about extenuating circumstances in exams such as noise etc.

Beanyb wrote:

I have so much resentment towards the exams office right now. I was right up the front and beside the divider thingy in Pavillions 1 & 2 today for my exam. They in their infinite wisdom decided it would be fine to start exams in Pavillion 3 at 3 when we started at 2, despite the fact that the only thing dividing the rooms is a metal fence.

So because I was right beside the fence, for about 15 minutes before 3 o'clock the noise was UNREAL. The exam didnt go great for me, because I pretty much blanked on one question getting dates mixed up and all the noise really wasnt helping my already fragile state of mind.

The guy in front of me complained to an invigilator about the noise and though he said he couldnt do anything about it he said we could have some extra time at the end to make up for it. But no, at 4 o'clock on the dot we had to hand up our papers.

Not to mention the guys who thought it'd be a great time to re-arrange things in the waiting area outside the exam hall while the exam was on. ARGH.

VainGlory wrote:

beanyb, you should get an extenuating circumstances form as soon as possible and fill it out including all those details. I'd imagine you can get them from the programme office or at the exam centre itself.

If you're in any way borderline they should push you over because of that - totally unacceptable.

Vainglory wrote:

They were brought in while I was Ed officer, it's a great idea. DCU have had them for bloody years.

You should definitely get one. At the very least it can't do any harm and might very well do some good. I think you have to get it signed by a student adviser or the students union welfare officer but either shouldn't be a problem.

Vainglory wrote:

Oh and...if none of the categories on the form exactly fits your situation then I'd advise attaching an explanatory note on a separate sheet. Hope that helps.

Try to sound as angry and outraged as possible.

There ya go, see it can be used in this manner.

Stabshauptmann

Take a deep breath, relax.

There ya go, see it can be used in this manner.

You havent poved anything. You gave Vain's opinion, and I gave mine.

Quoting Vain's opinion doesnt prove anything, or change anything; since all we're talking about is peoples opinions.

My understanding of this policy is that it is for an individuals unique extenuating cirumstances,as outlined in the policy and quoted above but as Jane said filling one out wont do any harm.

Paul Tergat

The noise was complete bullshít, giving an extra 15 minutes means nothing to me if the noise is still on, really did break my concentration

I complained to the invigilator who informed me "the noise is outside"...:rolleyes:

I then asked are they going to do something about it as I could not concentrate and he came back and said just that there is more time so basically its something we just had to put up with.

These marks are half of my degree for fúck sake - COMPLETE JOKE! :mad:

Stabshauptmann

What might work (and has for us in the past) is if you gets enough ppl to sign a letter/or your class rep to visit the lecturer, bring it to their attention that way.

The best thing to hope for is that the marks would be scaled, in line with historic trends

Stepherunie

Well seeing as it was under Vainglorys term as Education officer I'm pretty sure she knows what she's talking about which is why I quoted her.

And I don't need you to tell me to do anything Kaptain, I'm perfectly relaxed, I'm just pointing out that from what I can see they can use an extenuating circumstances form.

Stabshauptmann

Stepherunie wrote:

Well seeing as it was I]brought in[/I under Vainglorys term as Education officer I'm pretty sure she knows what she's talking about

.

Paul Tergat

I think Ronan Shanahan is our rep so will give him a call

burnedfaceman

link to extenuating circumstances policy

http://www.ucd.ie/registrar/modularisation_and_semesterisation/documents/extenuating_%20circumstances-policy.pdf

having read through this document i doubt exam noise is covered in its remit, the policy is more to do with people being ill and the like missing alot of college etc. rather than being distacted in an exam with noise, sure you can only try and apply. there was a pigeon cooing in my exam this morn for ages and was driving me nuts, filthy flying vermin never again will i feed onw:D

beanyb

That feckin pigeon was driving me mad for about five minutes this morning. It was so loud! And then the trinity exams started later than ours so there was a good bit of noise coming from in there again. I was a few rows over this time so it didnt distract me like it did in my last exam. It's still a joke that it happens though. It cant be that difficult to coordinate exam start times.

And yeah burnedfaceman I think you're right about exam noise not being covered under the policy.

Stabshauptmann

beanyb wrote:

And yeah burnedfaceman I think you're right about exam noise not being covered under the policy.

:rolleyes:

JustCoz

God someone got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning Kaptain Redeye! A fullstop isn't really a come back

beanyb

burnedfaceman wrote:

link to extenuating circumstances policy

http://www.ucd.ie/registrar/modularisation_and_semesterisation/documents/extenuating_%20circumstances-policy.pdf

having read through this document i doubt exam noise is covered in its remit, the policy is more to do with people being ill and the like missing alot of college etc. rather than being distacted in an exam with noise, sure you can only try and apply. there was a pigeon cooing in my exam this morn for ages and was driving me nuts, filthy flying vermin never again will i feed onw:D

I was replying to what he said about having actually read the policy. Rather than you just stating your opinion which everyone is apparently supposed to take as gospel, or we might get the dreaded eye rolling smiley.

I feel so ashamed of myself right now.

Stabshauptmann

Read the policy for yourself and you'll see that my post is a quote of the policy.
The reason I happened to know what the policy says without a hyperlink, is because I have it here infront of me. I missed 3 exams on medical grounds.

Did you think I just plucked the criteria out of the air?

People look for different things when deciding who's opinon they'll take, personally I dont give much wieght to "I read it and I think this", because I dont know why they drew that conclusion. But I do like when people say "it says X,Y,Z and I think this": because then I know whether or not I agree with the conclusion.
But however you choose to make decisions is entirely up to you.


JustCoz, I dont need a come back because Im happy with my original point and I dont see the need to repeat it. I quoted Stephs reply because it shows she didnt get my point: The Appeal to Authority is a logical fallacy.
But again, how you choose to make decisions is entirely up to you. My future livelihood will depend a great deal on everyone not making the same decisions.

sylvesterallein

Found out in conversation with someone who had a friend doing an exam the Friday before yesterday, that the very same thing happened, there was some kind of dance party with lots of pop songs, cheering, clapping etc..
Seems to me that UCD are hiring a hall for exams at the same time as it's hired for some weekly dance or something, whoever is responsible for hiring Simmonscourt hasn't checked out if something else is on at the same time obviously. Obviously they don't give a **** about us, maybe they got the hall half-price because of the party. God UCD is running downhill fast.

Stabshauptmann

At the risk of drawing more wrath, in UCD's defense they dont have a lot of options as to where they hold exams and its not as if they can tell the RDS how to run their business.

At the same time it does suck and those marking your exams need to be aware of stuff like this.

breadmonkey

sylvesterallein wrote:

they don't give a **** about us, maybe they got the hall half-price because of the party. God UCD is running downhill fast.

Yes, they did it on purpose just to aggrovate students.

From what I heard (and this is entirely heresay), there was a big office "fun day" type thing in the Old Belvedere rugby grounds.

drdre

Notorious wrote:

My girlfriend was telling me about that, said she could hear every word of a Shikra song, followed by cheering. Can't you complain if it effected your exam?

There should be a complaint made.

inverted_world

For once, I'm actually glad that my exams are on in Blackrock. I have still been using earplugs though because I'm very easily distracted.

That sort of noise is ridiculous though, and I reckon that once it's brought to the atention of whoever is correcting the papers they will take it into account. Email lecturers and ask them what you should do about it, and they should know whether a letter or a form should do.

dajaffa

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

At the risk of drawing more wrath, in UCD's defense they dont have a lot of options as to where they hold exams

It's called O'Reilly Hall, not as big as the halls in the RDS + using it would vastly reduce the amount of exams being held in venues not owned by UCD. Of course the main reason they don't hold it there is that the money they make renting it out is more than it costs to hire the RDS.

FionnMatthew

Actually Kaptain Redeye, if you read the introduction to the form yourself, as you claim to have done, you'll see that the circumstances you quoted are actually only examples. The form is for applying for what you consider to be extenuating circumstances, and no list can exhaust the total possible list of extenuating circumstances. The whole point of the form is to argue your case - no case is granted on the basis of ticking boxes against the list you quoted.

What are extenuating circumstances?

Extenuating circumstances are unforeseen circumstances beyond your control which either prevented you from attending the examination, or submitting all or any part of any continuous assessments by the due date. Typically such unforeseen circumstances could include events like an accident, a crime, family bereavement, serious illness or other serious personal or emotional cirucmstances. In some instances you may have attended an examination or submitted continuous assessment, but your performance may have been affected by your extenuating circumstances.

The form asks you to:

• express the nature of your extenuating circumstances and the impact you perceive these to have hadon your ability to fulfil your assessment requirements
• explain the specific consideration you wish the Examination Board to take into account in determining your final grade
• provide information which supports your claim for extenuating circumstances; further details are provided below

And if you want proof that submitting such a form is procedurally orthodox in circumstances not specifically indicated in the form - I was onto the Registrar's office and the Programme office about the likelihood of ridiculous timetabling being a possible extenuating circumstance. That circumstance isn't covered in the list, but I was advised by the office to submit it in the form, and many other people in final year in the same situation have been advised to do the same.

I appreciate that the form also says:

Exam hall incidents which do not relate to personal circumstances or other assessment appeals grounds are not covered.

But this article is pretty vague, and in a case where the exam hall incidents are the direct result of carelessness on the part of UCD, it would appear to be the case that one might have a right to appeal that the exam was not fairly organised. What other channel is open to this line of appeal?

I'd be inclined to think that the more people who found themselves affected by the noise who do apply for extenuating circumstances, the more likely it is that the incident will be considered, as it rightly should be, an actual extenuating circumstance.

Anyway, one can appreciate that you disagree with Stepherunie, but it seems that the issue doesn't really warrant the level of sneering you're doing.

Red Alert

And in fact depending on the room some people could claim to have been more affected than others.

Stepherunie

Kaptain, As you yourself said it's peoples opinions that we're dealing with here. If people feel that the noise outside was an extenuating circumstance in terms of their exam performance then they have every right to fill out a form and hand it in.

Stabshauptmann

FionnMatthew wrote:

Actually Kaptain Redeye, if you read the introduction to the form yourself, as you claim to have done, you'll see that the circumstances you quoted are actually only examples. The form is for applying for what you consider to be extenuating circumstances, and no list can exhaust the total possible list of extenuating circumstances. The whole point of the form is to argue your case - no case is granted on the basis of ticking boxes against the list you quoted.



And if you want proof that submitting such a form is procedurally orthodox in circumstances not specifically indicated in the form - I was onto the Registrar's office and the Programme office about the likelihood of ridiculous timetabling being a possible extenuating circumstance. That circumstance isn't covered in the list, but I was advised by the office to submit it in the form, and many other people in final year in the same situation have been advised to do the same.

No the list isnt exhaustive, but they are examples of individual gripes that effect an individuals performance, as would your example of a personal timetable being extremely harsh.

I appreciate that the form also says: Exam hall incidents which do not relate to personal circumstances or other assessment appeals grounds are not covered. But this article is pretty vague

I think that makes things very clear actually. I also think the phrase "personal circumstances" reaffirms my belief that this policy isnt appropriate for dealing with group problems.

But this article is pretty vague, and in a case where the exam hall incidents are the direct result of carelessness on the part of UCD, it would appear to be the case that one might have a right to appeal that the exam was not fairly organised. What other channel is open to this line of appeal?

Appealing to the decency of the lecturer by petition or through your class rep, which I know from personal experience can work.

I'd be inclined to think that the more people who found themselves affected by the noise who do apply for extenuating circumstances, the more likely it is that the incident will be considered, as it rightly should be, an actual extenuating circumstance.

I do think it should be considered, and it will only be considered if there is clear evidence in the number of complaints. But in the hope that these complaints are successful, I hope the correct procedure is followed, and Im expressing my doubt that the extenuating circumstances policy is the most appropriate route for a large group to follow.

Anyway, one can appreciate that you disagree with Stepherunie, but it seems that the issue doesn't really warrant the level of sneering you're doing.

When is sneering ever warranted?

Steph wrote:

f people feel that the noise outside was an extenuating circumstance in terms of their exam performance then they have every right to fill out a form and hand it in.

They do, and as I said already I agree it cant do any harm, but there might be a better way; and Id hate to think that better way if it exists was over looked, or people didnt get the mark they deserved because they filled out the wrong form.

Stepherunie

Well I always believe in a multi pronged approach when it comes to these things anyway. Seeing as I have a good working relationship with all my lecturers I'd just have gone straight to them about it and had a chat.

I'm just advocating the use of these forms too, especially if you don't know the lecturers that well.

maireadmarie

Since a close relative of mine was there too, I've taken it on myself to simply ring UCD Examinations Office and express my concern. The official I was talking to took my comments on board and is to get back to me.

Chinafoot

maireadmarie wrote:

The official I was talking to took my comments on board and is to get back to me.

Yea...um....good luck with that one.

panda100

inverted_world wrote:

For once, I'm actually glad that my exams are on in Blackrock. I have still been using earplugs though because I'm very easily distracted.
.

Im just wondering is there anysort of protocol for which exams are in Blackrock?Seems to me like us meds are always quite lucky and our exams are always out in blackrock.I had a repeat exam there last week and it seemed to be all health science students.
Does this mean that final years have to sit exmas in the rds?Yuk couldnt imagine anything worse. Its far to noisy in there!

dajaffa

panda100 wrote:

Im just wondering is there anysort of protocol for which exams are in Blackrock?Seems to me like us meds are always quite lucky and our exams are always out in blackrock.I had a repeat exam there last week and it seemed to be all health science students.
Does this mean that final years have to sit exmas in the rds?Yuk couldnt imagine anything worse. Its far to noisy in there!

I think as a general rule of thumb all the exams held in Blackrock are non-modular ones. That is not to be confused with all non-modular exams being held there, which I'm pretty sure isn't the case.

snickerpuss

I've had nearly all my exams in blackrock. All the Irish ones and 1 of the 3 art history. Its fairly empty at night in the exam hall its usually just us and does seem to be mostly final years.
(I'm non-modular of course) (Though i still take each 'module' exam individually now like I was modularised) (God knows)

inverted_world

panda100 wrote:

Im just wondering is there anysort of protocol for which exams are in Blackrock?Seems to me like us meds are always quite lucky and our exams are always out in blackrock.I had a repeat exam there last week and it seemed to be all health science students.
Does this mean that final years have to sit exmas in the rds?Yuk couldnt imagine anything worse. Its far to noisy in there!

No, I'm final year and all of my exams are in Blackrock this year except one (and that's on campus) I was cursing this at first because it takes a lot longer to get there than the RDS, but it does seem to be quieter and, because it's smaller, there aren't a load of different exams on at the same time so it's nowhere near as daunting.

Most of my English papers are still three hours long, so it's easier to hold them in Blackrock than to have the huge distraction of everyone leaving the RDS hall after two hours.

beanyb

I had three of my exams in the RDS and the other 3 in Blackrock. The only method there seems to be to that is the ones in Blackrock are all this week, and the others were before.

It was still badly organised though. There was only about 150 people in the hall, and half of us had 2 hour exams and the other half were 3 hours. I felt really bad for the 3 hour people, they were obviously pissed off. They could have at least sat them over on the far side of the hall instead of right beside us, to limit the disturbance.

Vainglory

I had an exam in the Memorial Hall in Blackrock - there were three groups of people taking three separate exams in it at the same time- Irish Folklore, Philosophy of Mind, and some Engineering exam.

Some of the Philosophy of Mind people only had a one hour exam (so got up and left after an hour), then the rest of us plus Irish Folklore had a two hour exam (so again got up and left, creating noise, after two hours). I felt very sorry for the engineers who had a three hour exam and were thus interrupted twice.

Also - the invigilator guy was like "Can you be as quiet as possible leaving, as it is very inconsiderate to everyone else". Funny, I thought it was actually inconsiderate of UCD to schedule those exams for the same room in the first place, but no matter...

Duffman

To be honest the advantage of the extra time they gave us by far outweighed any distraction caused by the music,

Paul Tergat

Duffman wrote:

To be honest the advantage of the extra time they gave us by far outweighed any distraction caused by the music,

That's totally your own opinion though. if someone cant concentrate well with the noise it makes no difference if they give ya another 15 mins with the noise still there, IMO

dajaffa

Duffman wrote:

To be honest the advantage of the extra time they gave us by far outweighed any distraction caused by the music,

Ah c'mon, it depends on the person. Like I know for me irritating noises make it practically impossible to get down to work, but don't bother me mid-flow, wheras some people wouldn't be bothered at all by noise.

I think its perfectly fair if someone feels that of they felt this noise had a negative effect on their exam that they send in an extenuating circumstance form. Happy days if it didn't bother most people too much, it affects everyone differently.

FionnMatthew

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

No the list isnt exhaustive, but they are examples of individual gripes that effect an individuals performance, as would your example of a personal timetable being extremely harsh. ...I think that makes things very clear actually. I also think the phrase "personal circumstances" reaffirms my belief that this policy isnt appropriate for dealing with group problems.

This isn't a group problem. Whether or not noise experienced by a group of people affected any individual's exam performance is an individual matter. If any individual person, as a member of the group of people doing exams at that time, felt that, personally, their exams were unduly affected by the noise, it is their prerogative, each individually, to apply for extenuating circumstances.

There was a loud noise which effected everyone sitting the exam doesnt seem like it fits the above criteria.

1) There is no evidence that everyone present felt that the noise affected each of them in the same way, or to the same degree.
2) Even if it did affect everyone, that entails that each individual person felt that the exams were affecting their personal performance. Hence, not only does the circumstance fit the criteria, but it fits it as many times as there are students affected.

Appealing to the decency of the lecturer by petition or through your class rep, which I know from personal experience can work.

It is essentially "appealing to the decency of" the system to fill out an EC form, and it has the advantage over what you've suggested in being an official line of complaint which manifests itself in writing, and to more people than just the lecturer concerned. An EC form can be cited as an official document by the lecturer when complaining about the exam hall noise, because as an official document, it's one UCD can recognise. In the case where there is some dispute over the matter, there is documentary evidence in several places, and nobody can say "you didn't apply in the correct way, and it's too late now."

When is sneering ever warranted?

Are you
a) suggesting that you were not sneering, or
b) suggesting that you may have been sneering, but that you need no justification to do so?

Stabshauptmann

breadmonkey wrote:

Yes, they did it on purpose just to aggrovate students.

From what I heard (and this is entirely heresay), there was a big office "fun day" type thing in the Old Belvedere rugby grounds.

That is what happened alright. Was dropping in my EC form and asked was the above covered by the policy.
I was told the issue is going to be brought to the exam boards attention due to student complaints to the exams office and to the lecturers.

Though the exams office arent to fault.
Apparently UCD does have an agreement with the RDS as to what type of things the RDS can book at the same time as exams.
But the RDS doesnt own the belvo grounds.
They did however ask them to keep the noise down all the same.

Hope thats of comfort sylvesterallein and others who sat an exam on the 25th

Stabshauptmann

FionnMatthew wrote:

This isn't a group problem...

The exams office is treating it as one. Our opinions might vary, but I do think its theirs that matters.

Though you are arguing the point quite well.

It is essentially "appealing to the decency of" the system to fill out an EC form, and it has the advantage over what you've suggested in being an official line of complaint which manifests itself in writing

That may be, but the problem has been resolved through the channels I suggested, though thats not to say those who utilised those channels were ever aware of boards or anything posted on it.

And as an aside complaining to your lecturer or the exams office is official, and an email is in writing, as is a petition or letter.

Are you
a) suggesting that you were not sneering, or
b) suggesting that you may have been sneering, but that you need no justification to do so?

No.


Now whether I was right or not, the situation is being dealt with at exam board level, in the manner it has been for me in the past.

Maybe the EC policy could be applied to it as well, but I stand by my suggestion of doing things the tried and tested way.

sylvesterallein

Kaptain Redeye and all who went to the trouble of answering thanks for the input, in recovery right now and feelling a lot better.