I think I bought a crashed car

mackin

Hi, I'm a long time lurker, first time poster.

I bought a second hand car from a main dealer about 2 years ago. I tried to trade the car in to another garage recently and they told me it had had a respray and may have been crashed.

I was shocked as I specifically asked the dealer I bought it from had it been crashed or hand any other repair work done. I was told no.

So what do I do now? - I'm proposing to approach the dealer and ask them to explain themselves.

slumped

I had almost exactly the same problem - there is a thread here somewhere about it.....let me find it.

I basically threatened legal action as the garage failed to disclose when asked if the car was crashed or not.

Gimme a bit.

S

slumped

Have a look at this thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055038902&referrerid=&highlight=bmw+crashed+uk+import+slumped

mackin

very interesting Slumped

What would you advise in my initial approach to the garage - obviously I don't want to barge in all guns blazing

testicle

After 2 years, I suspect you haven't a leg to stand on.

mackin

Why so testicle - I only discovered yesterday? If I had discovered 2 years ago and done nothing then it would be different

Mr.Orange

in all fairness you should have had the car checked over before you bought it.
your problem if you ask me.

the dealer told you it hadn't been crash, they probably thought it hadn't been crashed too.
even if it has been crashed in the past it doesn't matter, so long as it was repaired properly, which in your case i'm sure it has as you've driven it for 2 years with no problems.

mackin

That is fair comment - however in law they would be deemed experts and would be expected to know.

Also when buying the car I made sure to buy from a main dealer who was a SIMI member. I also rang the garages stamped in the service record to ascertain if this information was correct. I also asked what work they had done on the car. Nothing other than servicing had been done.

Cartell weren't in operation at the time either.

Enright

caveat emptor

Let the buyer beware!

However the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act 1980 stipulates that in purcashing a car, especially a secondhand one that if the purcharser asks if the vechicle has previously been crashed and the seller says no, then Caveat Emptor does not apply!.

Some dealers avoid answering this question by saying
"Not when i had it!"

If the purchaser does NOT ask the question, then the seller is not oblidged to disclose the information.

mackin

And as I mentioned in my original post I did ask had it been crashed or had any other work carried out

slumped

mackin wrote:

very interesting Slumped

What would you advise in my initial approach to the garage - obviously I don't want to barge in all guns blazing

Ring Ring -

Hello Mr. Car Dealer.

I bought a car from you in 2005 and have receipts etc to prove it. When I asked at the time of purchase if it had been crashed I was told No.

I have now discovered several panels damaged etc. when trying to resell it.

As you failed to disclose the information to me at the time I was wondering if I could call in and show you the damage."


- have an assesment carried out by AA vehicle inspection (costs 350euro)
- if they say its not a safe car or has been damaged badly then use that as the starting point of your argument.
- If the garage is a member of SIMI - tell them you are reporting them for selling a crashed car.

Basic point is this:

You thought you were buying a second hand car.
You actually bought a crash repaired car.


IMOH - your best bet is to go back to the original garage and ask them to take it as trade in. If they say it was crash damaged then you can say it was from them you bought it.

S

MercMad

The problem will be proving that YOU didn't crash it in the past 2 years since you bought it. The garage may well have paperwork, that you signed, stating that to their knowledge the car was not crashed.

It will be your word against theirs. They will try to prove that it was not damaged when they sold it, and you will try to prove that you have not crashed it !

Its a tough one and one of the reasons that it is ALWAYS worthwhile getting a second opinion from an independent mechanic before you deal !

May I suggest you try to contact the previous owner(s) to see if they can shed any light on it !

mackin

that was how I was originally going to approach it - see if they would say it was crashed while appraising it for trade in.

colm_mcm

The car may have been repaired before it was traded in. Difficult to prove anything at this stage.

Seth Brundle

Prove that the dealer didn't tell you it was involved in a bang!

drdre

slumped wrote:

Ring Ring -

Hello Mr. Car Dealer.

I bought a car from you in 2005 and have receipts etc to prove it. When I asked at the time of purchase if it had been crashed I was told No.

I have now discovered several panels damaged etc. when trying to resell it.

As you failed to disclose the information to me at the time I was wondering if I could call in and show you the damage."


- have an assesment carried out by AA vehicle inspection (costs 350euro)
- if they say its not a safe car or has been damaged badly then use that as the starting point of your argument.
- If the garage is a member of SIMI - tell them you are reporting them for selling a crashed car.

Basic point is this:

You thought you were buying a second hand car.
You actually bought a crash repaired car.


IMOH - your best bet is to go back to the original garage and ask them to take it as trade in. If they say it was crash damaged then you can say it was from them you bought it.

S

Thats an excellent way of approaching this situation

milltown

Unfortunately, SIMI is little more than a motor trade industry association, set up to look after it's member's interests primarily. It is not a consumer organisation. I think the best you can hope for from SIMI is, if you threaten civil legal action against the garage, they will offer arbitration to keep it out of the courts. Their arbitration commitee is made up of their own members, one of whom I happen to know and he's a sound enough guy with a fair sense of right and wrong. Beyond him I don't know what you could expect if you enter arbitration. It's also possible if you agree to arbitration you may be asked to sign something to say you will accept their decision as final and take the matter no further. I've no idea if this is even constitutional but I certainly wouldn't sign it.

Having said all that, I wouldn't buy from a non-SIMI garage. They do have a code of conduct that members are expected to adhere to, even if there is scant legal requirement for compliance.

colly10

You can't prove that he didn't tell you, it's your word against his. If you've got nothing on paper I can't see how you'd have a leg to stand on.

Esel

colly10 wrote:

You can't prove that he didn't tell you, it's your word against his. If you've got nothing on paper I can't see how you'd have a leg to stand on.

Picture the courtroom scene. Honest-faced Joe Public, with no axe to grind, testifies he asked and was told the car was never crashed/repaired. Flash Harry, second-hand car dealer (and SIMI member), swears he was never asked. Who is the judge likely to believe?

OP, keep Joe Duffy in your back pocket on this one.

colm_mcm

Even Joe Duffy won't touch that.

JHMEG

OP, has the new garage confirmed that it has actually been crashed. It might just have had a few panels sprayed to repair scrapes/scratches or stone chips. This is especially common in the UK. Not so common here, but not unheard of either.

viking

This is from memory when we bought our 2nd hand car from an SIMI garage a couple of years ago:

There should be a SIMI form that the dealer fills in in triplicate and you receive the yellow copy, part of this form has a section where there is a question like "Was the car ever involved in a crash", the dealer ticks yes/no depending on whether it was or not.

If the OP has this form then this is his guarantee that the dealer told him the car was not crashed.

(I'll have a root for the form we got ourselves to see if I can tell you exactly what it says)

Seth Brundle

Having that form is all well and good but given that the OP didn't notice the damage for a long time and they would have seen the car every day then it would be reasonable to consider that it wasn't noticed by the dealer.

colly10

esel wrote:

Picture the courtroom scene. Honest-faced Joe Public, with no axe to grind, testifies he asked and was told the car was never crashed/repaired. Flash Harry, second-hand car dealer (and SIMI member), swears he was never asked. Who is the judge likely to believe?

OP, keep Joe Duffy in your back pocket on this one.

Yes the dealer could -
a) Say he was never asked
b) Claim that he said it was crashed

Joe public has an axe to grind as he's likely to loose out on money here. Yes his story is more believable that the dealers but is the dealer not innocent till proven guilty.

Chef1976

there are a number of companies offering car inspection services. You might try one of these can be found on google.ie

colm_mcm

viking wrote:

There should be a SIMI form that the dealer fills in in triplicate and you receive the yellow copy, part of this form has a section where there is a question like "Was the car ever involved in a crash", the dealer ticks yes/no depending on whether it was or not.

The section about the car being crashed concerns the trade in, not the car being sold.

testicle

mackin wrote:

Why so testicle - I only discovered yesterday? If I had discovered 2 years ago and done nothing then it would be different

Because you have to prove that you haven't crashed the car in the mean time, and had it repaired, and then tried to pull a fast one on the dealers that sold it to you.

colm_mcm

Chef1976 wrote:

there are a number of companies offering car inspection services. You might try one of these can be found on google.ie

then he can contact one of these companies, then travel back in time, get it inspected, and then buy something else?

Victor

MercMad wrote:

The problem will be proving that YOU didn't crash it in the past 2 years since you bought it. The garage may well have paperwork, that you signed, stating that to their knowledge the car was not crashed.

It will be your word against theirs. They will try to prove that it was not damaged when they sold it, and you will try to prove that you have not crashed it !

See if the Garda has a record of it being involved in a crash.

snickerpuss

It may not have been a 'crash'. I scraped car off gate. Okay majorly scraped car off gate, we need fix and respray.
I wouldn't have said i crashed it, i had scraped it.

You never know what you'll find out about cars, we had ours a few years when we discovered it used to be a taxi.

Anyway best bet is call the garage and talk to them a lá slumped's advice.