ProTools & Mastering Question

RebelRebel

Hi All,

I was wondering if anyone could advise on the following question.
I am using pro tools LE with a digi002 and with the bundle of plug-ins. I'm reasonably competent at using it for tracking and have done a good bit of mixing on it of late, but my question relates to mastering.

Now I know mastering is quite an artform and best to bring it to the pros for a proper job. But lets say I record something and mix it and i'm happy with it and none of the levels are clipping. I then bounce it so I have a stereo track. Now obviously if I burn this to CD the volume level will be much lower than a regular CD.

Is there a way in protools to bring up the level of the stereo track to something like a cd level. I'm not trying to master it - not worried about EQ or reverb or compression - just want to increase the volume. Does anyone know how to do that. Is there a specific plug in.

Any advice apreciated.
RR

RebelRebel

Niall - Dahlia wrote:

Hey RR,

Not sure what plugins you got with the 002, but what you're looking to do is put a limiter on the master channel. With the default PT plugins you'd use the Compressor/Limiter 3. You can start off with a ratio of 20:1 and increase the gain on the compressor. Adjust the attack so that it's not dampening all the transients and adjust the release so that it doesn't pump. Depending on the music can go all the way up to 100:1 and bring the threshold down if you really want to crush it.

It's going to dramatically change the sound of your mix though, Compressor/Limiter 3 isn't the most transparent compressor ever. I'm sure you got other compressor/limiter plugins with the 002 pack so try them all. Don't overdo it though, remember that everybody has a volume knob and knows how to use it.

Thanks Niall, There are a couple of Compressors with the system that I have. The Default on the 002 and the moogfooger compressor as well. I'll try what you suggested. I'm not looking to change the sound too much so i'll keep in mind what you say and try to keep it minimal and I don't want to lose too much of the dynamice so i'll avoid too much compression.

I did try using the limiter alright but for some reason i couldn't get it to work - it kept clipping. I'm only beginning to use plug-ins so i'm not entirely sure what I should be doing with them!!

Thanks for the reply. will try it out.

hannahkennan

Hey there. i don't use pro-tools but cubase is much the same. If you want to just bring up the overall level, once you have your song converted to a stereo file try normalizing it. That basically just brings up the overall gain. In cubase you'd find this option by right clicking the stereo file and in the drop down menu go into 'process' and you'll find 'normalize' there. Set the gain to minus 10 db and that should bring up the volume. Hopefully it's similar in protools. Best of luck!

TelePaul

RebelRebel wrote:

Hi All,

I was wondering if anyone could advise on the following question.
I am using pro tools LE with a digi002 and with the bundle of plug-ins. I'm reasonably competent at using it for tracking and have done a good bit of mixing on it of late, but my question relates to mastering.

Now I know mastering is quite an artform and best to bring it to the pros for a proper job. But lets say I record something and mix it and i'm happy with it and none of the levels are clipping. I then bounce it so I have a stereo track. Now obviously if I burn this to CD the volume level will be much lower than a regular CD.

Is there a way in protools to bring up the level of the stereo track to something like a cd level. I'm not trying to master it - not worried about EQ or reverb or compression - just want to increase the volume. Does anyone know how to do that. Is there a specific plug in.

Any advice apreciated.
RR

I'm not familiar with pro-tools but you might wanna try a master limiter.

TelePaul

hannahkennan wrote:

Hey there. i don't use pro-tools but cubase is much the same. If you want to just bring up the overall level, once you have your song converted to a stereo file try normalizing it. That basically just brings up the overall gain. In cubase you'd find this option by right clicking the stereo file and in the drop down menu go into 'process' and you'll find 'normalize' there. Set the gain to minus 10 db and that should bring up the volume. Hopefully it's similar in protools. Best of luck!

No no no no no!!! Normalizing = bad! It'll kill your mix, raises the noise floor and pretty much does what you can do yourself by moving the faders by hand.

TelePaul

Niall - Dahlia wrote:

Normalising only brings the single highest peak in the song up to ~0dB, which isn't what a compressor/limiter does, it won't make it "commercially" loud which is what the OP is after I think. A compressor/limiter will squash the sound to make it consistently loud throughout.

What he said, get a well crafted mix and then use a master limiter.

I normlaized all my initial mixes at first before realising it was a bad way to do things.

Strings.ie

I agree, a mastering limiter is the tool you need.

I use waves L2 or T-racks limiter.

One thing to avoid is trying to make your CD as loud as possible. Find a nice setting and pull it back. With the L2 I pull it back around 4-6db. Most music has dynamics and over using a limiter destroys your dynamics. Sure it's loud but that's what the volume control is for on your amp/hifi.

Oh & don't forget to master to -2db and not 0db.

Anima

Here a good video on why making music too loud is bad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gmex_4hreQ

frobisher

This is completely against what most engineers and music makers seem to think, but I sometimes love slamming my mixes. It depends on the song but it can give a certain modern sound that in my opinion does can have a place.

Also, if I'm sending an MP3 to someone for say promo stuff and I know they will listen to it only on a PC I will master it harder and differently to how I will master tracks that I send out on CD.

There is an extremely good reason why so many people hate the loudness wars, and I agree with them in general but at the same time it works sometimes. Just use your ears and go for it.

One thing that I have often done when mastering and I feel something is missing like a cohesiveness or magic or shimmer etc is add a touch of reverb. Sometimes it can work so well that it instantly brings a smile to my face (if you're thinking of trying it a tip is to chop or fade off any audible signs of it at the end of the song). Probably not the norm for pro M.E.'s but to my ears it can really work. Just like slamming a track to within 0.01db of it's life can. Knowing what the pro's do and why they do it is great but no where near as satisfying as just using your own ears and finding what you like.

TelePaul

frobisher wrote:

This is completely against what most engineers and music makers seem to think, but I sometimes love slamming my mixes. It depends on the song but it can give a certain modern sound that in my opinion does can have a place.

Also, if I'm sending an MP3 to someone for say promo stuff and I know they will listen to it only on a PC I will master it harder and differently to how I will master tracks that I send out on CD.

There is an extremely good reason why so many people hate the loudness wars, and I agree with them in general but at the same time it works sometimes. Just use your ears and go for it.

One thing that I have often done when mastering and I feel something is missing like a cohesiveness or magic or shimmer etc is add a touch of reverb. Sometimes it can work so well that it instantly brings a smile to my face (if you're thinking of trying it a tip is to chop or fade off any audible signs of it at the end of the song). Probably not the norm for pro M.E.'s but to my ears it can really work. Just like slamming a track to within 0.01db of it's life can. Knowing what the pro's do and why they do it is great but no where near as satisfying as just using your own ears and finding what you like.

Glaceverb is good for this and a cool free verb.

artvandulet

Dude, strings.ie hit the nail on the head.

Get yourself either the L2 Ultramaximiser plugin, create a master fader and insert the L2 over it and tweek away

or

Better still, get T-Racks (which isn't just a limiter BTW!!). Its a mastering suite and its feckin' great. Will give you that 'commercially loud' sound your after. Loads of presets here, and you can create and save your own. Use it all the time.

Just be careful not to overdo it with mastering as you may loose some of the dynamics and the overall sound quality may reduce - especially when using a brick wall type limiter.

Frankiestylee

Niall - Dahlia wrote:

Yeah you gotta know what format your mix is gonna be heard on. Radio will add additional compression for example. Wouldn't mind finding out how much actually if anybody knows, on average.

I think radio is -10db

jebusmusic

hannahkennan wrote:

If you want to just bring up the overall level, once you have your song converted to a stereo file try normalizing it. That basically just brings up the overall gain.

As said above, DON'T normalise your mixes, it will just kill them, and will give you very little extra gain!!


The Waves L2 and L3 maximisers are very good for getting the most level out of your tracks, but again, it depends on what type of music it is, and what you're trying to achieve. Dont just make something loud, with no dynamic range just for the sake of it, and 'cos everything else is'!

The L2 or T-Racks etc are great for home mastering on the cheap, when you either dont have the money or the need for professional mastering.

A combination of some gentle compression (threshold -10db, ratio 2:1, attack 50ms, release 35ms, gain +3 as a starting point), limiting to -0.10 again with a few Db of Gain Reduction, and some gentle EQ adjustments can make a huge difference to your record. Obviously this is just an example of settings, and will be completely dependant on music style etc!

But for anything with plans for release/sale etc, then I think spending a few hundred quid on professional mastering is well worth it.

The whole process, from getting the perspective/opinons of a fresh set of ears, & the benefit of those experienced ears, to the general tidying/fading/sequencing of tracks is essential to a professional sounding record.