Should builder be obliged to install paths around house?

Kashkai

Yup, me again and another tale of my errant builder.

After putting manners on him (or so I thought), Bob the builder is refusing to put a path around my house. Now he has put down a sand/gravel mix but says he will not put a path in.

I've checked two of his previous builds and they have paths. I got talking to his plumber who said Bob was just chancing his arm with me and that I should tell him to put the paths in or else I should get someone else to do it and take it out of the retention.

Now there was a path around the house pre-construction work but this was obliterated by Bob. As I have 3 young kids, I don't want them continually falling and injuring themselves on the mess he's left around the exterior of the house. So is he obliged to put in the paths or not. The contract didn't say he should put them in, then again it doesn't say he wouldn't put them in either.

smashey

Prosperous Dave wrote:

The contract didn't say he should put them in, then again it doesn't say he wouldn't put them in either.

If it wasn't on the contract then he isn't obliged to do it.

Mellor

smashey wrote:

If it wasn't on the contract then he isn't obliged to do it.

True, but there was an existing path, surely he is obliged to repair areas damaged during the course of the work? is there anything to that effect

muffler

I doubt if he's liable for a new concrete path around the house (unless specified) but he would be liable for the repair or replacement of any path that was damaged.

Kashkai

The original paths are totally gone, either dug up when he was laying sewers or are now under the new build. The original driveway has also disappeared under rubble.

The Engineer said I should try and haggle the paths out of him and after what his plumber said, I think I'll have a go at getting Bob to put them in.

galwaytt

.....I've got a variation on that..........if you have a quote - like I did - for footpaths...........then is the front door step included....?

Viking House

On a side note, footpaths keep your foundations moist resulting in up to 20 times more heatloss through the foundations. Better to put a french drain all around your house.

galwaytt

Viking House wrote:

On a side note, footpaths keep your foundations moist resulting in up to 20 times more heatloss through the foundations. Better to put a french drain all around your house.

where in the name of all that's holy, did you dig that up???

For a start, foot paths are against the outer leaf, not the innner. They are also canted and throw surface water - including from the walls, remember - away from the buildling, so keep water AWAY from the footings.

They are also, usually, about 75mm thick, on compacted hardcore, and as such the area they present to the outer, uninsulated, leaf is modest at best,and are located below your FFL considerably. All these factors would not affect heat loss.

French drains on the other hand, are often moist or wet, so keeping that against your footings, is somehow an, improvement.........???

Viking House

galwaytt wrote:

where in the name of all that's holy, did you dig that up???

For a start, foot paths are against the outer leaf, not the innner. They are also canted and throw surface water - including from the walls, remember - away from the buildling, so keep water AWAY from the footings.

They are also, usually, about 75mm thick, on compacted hardcore, and as such the area they present to the outer, uninsulated, leaf is modest at best,and are located below your FFL considerably. All these factors would not affect heat loss.

French drains on the other hand, are often moist or wet, so keeping that against your footings, is somehow an, improvement.........???

Hi Galwaytt

Most footpaths we have dug up have moist soil underneath them because the concrete prevents them from drying out. This moist soil is up against your rising walls keeping them damp and water is a 20 times better conductor of heat than air. Your inside block is sitting on the damp rising walls which increases heatloss through the rising walls. A french drain when done properly with pea gravel wrapped in a geotextile lowers the water table around your house leading to dryer foundations.

Don't shoot me this is just my opinion!!

VH, are you suggesting having no concrete path or one that is seperated from the house by a strip of gravel & french drain?

I ask as this is a job further down the list, will need to do it in the not too distant future.

Viking House

Deleted User wrote:

VH, are you suggesting having no concrete path or one that is seperated from the house by a strip of gravel & french drain?

Either of the options you mentioned would be suitable in my opinion.

Pataman

I was told that to comply with Part M building regs, stones or gravel were not acceptable?? Once the architect signs off the property, you can do what you want.

galwaytt

Viking House wrote:

Hi Galwaytt

Most footpaths we have dug up have moist soil underneath them because the concrete prevents them from drying out. This moist soil is up against your rising walls keeping them damp and water is a 20 times better conductor of heat than air. Your inside block is sitting on the damp rising walls which increases heatloss through the rising walls. A french drain when done properly with pea gravel wrapped in a geotextile lowers the water table around your house leading to dryer foundations.

Don't shoot me this is just my opinion!!

ok, fair enough - so what we really have there then, is a sub standard job. Footpaths, by dint of having light traffic.............people are inclined to take short cuts. I remember years ago my father got a sledgehammer to break a path to access a sewer .........and the first swing revealed a teaspoon would have sufficed. Footpath was basically a skim over.......newspaper :eek: And that was built by a well-known, large firm............:rolleyes:

To the OP then, well, if you use a proper standard detail, conc over compacted screenings/hardcore, you will have absolutely no issue, and your footings will be perfectly dry. And dry means much lower conductivity than wet, as we know. So no need to re-invent the wheel to allow for someone taking a short cut - simply inspect as you go, and make sure it's done right. No paths poured without prior inspection.........

tred

Prosperous Dave wrote:

Yup, me again and another tale of my errant builder.

After putting manners on him (or so I thought), Bob the builder is refusing to put a path around my house. Now he has put down a sand/gravel mix but says he will not put a path in.

I've checked two of his previous builds and they have paths. I got talking to his plumber who said Bob was just chancing his arm with me and that I should tell him to put the paths in or else I should get someone else to do it and take it out of the retention.

Now there was a path around the house pre-construction work but this was obliterated by Bob. As I have 3 young kids, I don't want them continually falling and injuring themselves on the mess he's left around the exterior of the house. So is he obliged to put in the paths or not. The contract didn't say he should put them in, then again it doesn't say he wouldn't put them in either.

sounds like a cowboy. Tell him your getting a quoet for the paths and its coming out of his money. hell do it then himself. even at cost save u pay some one else.

watchingandwait

We finished (that is if your ever finished) our house in August last year, contract with builder, no reference to footpaths in contract but they were done. We were lucky i suppose because we didn;t have one bit of trouble with builder. I couldn't speak highly enough of him.

If you still owe builder money, for snag etc, don't pay him until paths are done. Paths are fairly easy to do and can generally be knocked out in a half day, tell him it has to be done. Hit him where it hurts ....

Builderwoman!

Dave, tell me you're in the house by now? Drove past recently and it didn't look like it but I'm hoping that you are in there but that it still looks like a building site still 'cos you're trying to sort out issues with that flipping builder.
I hope that you get sorted. I agree with others get paths in and deduct. What have you got to lose at this stage? He's obviously not too worieed about his reputation at this stage. Best of luck.

Kashkai

Hi BW,

We've been back in the house since the May bank holiday weekend. The house still looks like a building site from outside as he's left a huge pile of rubbish (old windows, doors, gutters, concrete, plastics, pallets, bricks etc etc) in what remains of the front garden. I've been too busy making the interior habitable to bother about the outside but I plan to get round to removing the rubbish pile next weekend into one of those large roll on skips.

The builder has refused point blank to put a path around the house stating that it wasn't in the contract. I replied that taking 10 months to complete the house and fixing a dangerous roof also weren't in the contract but this were how things turned out. Conversation went downhill from there but no need to elaborate on the details for fear of getting banned:D .

I've had several quotes from other builders to put in paths, kerbing and a gravel driveway but they vary wildly. Who to trust to do a good job???? After our experience with Bob the builder, I'm more than a little suspicious when it comes to dealing with anyone connected with the building trade.

smashey

Prosperous Dave wrote:

Conversation went downhill from there but no need to elaborate on the details for fear of getting banned:D .

Dave, put the gory details on the "malicious builder thread".

DublinDilbert

A little off topic, but up north its building regulations to put a path all the way around the house for safety, and no work can continue on the inside of the house till this is done... i think it is enforced by building control...

smashey

DublinDilbert wrote:

A little off topic, but up north its building regulations to put a path all the way around the house for safety, and no work can continue on the inside of the house till this is done... i think it is enforced by building control...

Ahhh yes, building control. They actually enforce standards in the North. How many people have seen them here? The scarlet pimpernel springs to mind.