Chancer or not?

Kent Brockman

Perhaps some of you more experienced guys involved in MMA/SD can offer opinions on this:

2 of my friends/ work colleagues have been training in martial arts-one of them for 2yrs and the other for just a couple of months.Both are early/mid thirties and will never fight competitively.
The more experienced guy regularly turns up to work badly limping from 'conditioning training' whereby the students stand in a line and the 'sensai'(as he likes to be called) kicks and punches them on the thighs and mid-riff areas.
The beginner recently got his ribs broken by the 'sensai' during 'conditioning' and has been out of operation for the past 7 weeks.

Neither of these two guys were aware of the UFC or Pride and said that they were never mentioned or discussed at the gym- something I find very strange ,and one of the guys got a bit pissed off when I challenged him on this.
They do a lot of sparring and 'forms?' and some sort of ground work. my mate seems to know lots of arm/ wrist locks (although they only seem eay to put on a slow motion single punch). The instructor is a black belt in a couple of diciplines with strange names.

It seems to me that
1. the instructor may be a sadist or is just reckless
2.The MA probably isnt great in a real situation and thats why UFC or Pride or cage rage etc is never mentioned.

Does this guy sound like a chancer selling something thats not practical?
Should I tell the guys that they would be better off doing a different MA or MMA?
Or am I misguided and should mond my own business?
(I'd rather not give too much info away but the club is not based in Dublin, cork, galway, limerick or waterford)

Opinions appreciated

dlofnep

Sounds like he's trying to inflate his own ego. You can get all the conditioning you like sparring.. I can't see any benefits of standing there and taking kicks and punches.

crazy monkey

How are things old chum?

I practiced kenpo for a while and one of the ''coach's'' used to pound the living hell out of us.
His rationale was it would toughen us up...
There are still some guys teaching that believe this to be true...

That rationale made me sore all over and not want to train and gave me a healthy appreciation of being punched in the head.
Difference between your friends and myself is that I was teenager and hadn't a clue.

The two lads need to wake up and realise that this isn't the Russian military [No offense to any Russians] but I'm sure some of us saw the footage on Channel four last year where the sargeant just battered his guys in his platoon.

Your friend's should leave - conditioning improves your health not injures you.
I'm sure there are other martial arts in your area that your mates can attend...

see you on Saturday I hope

ciao

ShaneT

Hmmm... very odd.

We do a fair amount of pain tolerance conditioning ourselves and we've been known to limp a while in the early days. But, the level of control means receiving that "little bit" more than you can handle (steadily improving).

If the guy is wandering around breaking ribs and enjoying being called Sensei; I'd say there's cause for concern.

Incidentally, the training sounds very much like traditional Kyokushin training. For one terrible second - I thought you were talking about us!! Then I remembered; I never kick beginners, I've never broken anyones ribs (well, not as an instructor anyway), I HATE to be called Sensei or anything like it and we never do forms. I've trained and fought with Kyokushin instructors and fighters from all over Europe (it's a lessor known system here in Ireland); I've NEVER seen such bullying occur. I also know a few of the REPUTABLE kyokushin trainers here in Ireland and I'd be hard pushed to believe that they would ever engage in "bullying".

I mention all this because Kyokushin is tough, also focuses heavily on full contact strikes to the body, legs and head and it often leaves people doubting the sanity/rationality of it's practitioners. "Horses for courses". But this instructor (on the face of it) sounds a little... ummm... overzealous to say the least.

With a sigh of relief I head off and go quietly about my business....

-S.

Baggio...

Yeah, I'd advise them to get out ASAP, he sounds like a bit of of a power tripper tbh.

I get quite a few bumps and bruises from doing my Kenpo training, which I'd expect 'cause I've been doing it for years now. I also get some scrapes from the old Combatives training as one would expect - but it's noting serious at all, and all the instructors always point out that you should take it to "whatever level you are comfortable with".

Also all my instructors will make sure you "feel an effect", as it's part of the training. But at the same time are always very careful regarding the safety of their students.

Time to move on IMO.

B.

cowzerp

ShaneT wrote:

Hmmm... very odd.

We do a fair amount of pain tolerance conditioning ourselves and we've been known to limp a while in the early days. But, the level of control means receiving that "little bit" more than you can handle (steadily improving).

If the guy is wandering around breaking ribs and enjoying being called Sensei; I'd say there's cause for concern.

Incidentally, the training sounds very much like traditional Kyokushin training. For one terrible second - I thought you were talking about us!!

With a sigh of relief I head off and go quietly about my business....

-S.

I thought this was going to be a defend Shane T exercise myself!!
probably because the training does sound like kyokushin and Shane is the only kyokushin trainer that i know, still made me laugh at what Shane was thinking looking at the computer though!!

on a side note-this trainer sounds like-1 a weirdo or 2 a bully-point them to this thread so they will realise they should be moving on. personally i agree with dlofnep on the standing there and getting hit-sparring should cover it.

arybvtcw0eolkf

First off, as your friend doesn't know any better I won't call him a muppet for taking this BS. But if a trainer/coach used me for a punch bag like that, broke my ribs and put me out of work for seven weeks (loss of earnings) his insurance would be taking a nice hit. If your mate went back after healing, he's a muppet.

Oh as regards the coach. I think he's both a chancer and a bully.

BLUNT

You've got to name this guy ( teacher??? ) thats just not on.Thats not what any art is about,its a discrace that this is go'en on.These places should be closed down and the coach banned from teachen ??? I'll bet this is not the first time this has happened in the gym/camp......you should find out and if it has,then some one on this forum ( who ever is nearest ) should go down and ask him to hit one of us,while we stand still....to see if we are hard.Just as long as he knows I'll hit him back several times to see if he is hard.Fighting systems to me should build man/woman kind not bestroy them.....this person is taken away from every thing....that each one of us is tryen to build ( traditional and sport ).............name the club at least..........peace J

mark.leonard

Pretty sure its against Boards policy to name and shame, but I am sure Colm will be along in a minute to say so if it is.

The "sensei" is a fool, what do you call those that follow a fool? Try and get your mates into healthy training, you've been to John's lead them down the path to the dark side.

arybvtcw0eolkf

mark.leonard wrote:

Pretty sure its against Boards policy to name and shame, but I am sure Colm will be along in a minute to say so if it is.

The "sensei" is a fool, what do you call those that follow a fool? Try and get your mates into healthy training, you've been to John's lead them down the path to the dark side.

Jesus, in that case that poor ol' fecker in Smithfield and his solicitors would have a field day on some of us here, lol.

dent

Breaking a students ribs under the guise of conditioning is sickening. Sounds like they are suffering under someone on a power trip. See if you can get them to try another club. Maybe it will open their eyes a little.

Leo?

Getting people que up for a beating sounds baffling, for what possible reason would you do that? I think people hear about karate conditioning and this springs to mind, which as Shane has already explained isn't the case.

P.S. If you can't name and shame here then please visit www.bullshido.com and name away it's mission statement is to expose frauds and BS artists on martial arts.

OldBloke

Shane T is right - when I read it first all I could think of was Kyokushin but I know Shane and he knows us and we would never tolerate that. I have had ribs broken in sparring but when it comes to conditioning its a long process built up over months and years and even then its reserved for those who want to fight.

The OP should get his friends to move on - there are more than enough posters here to point them in a new safer direction.

Roper

Sounds to me like Kyokushin +w@nker=this

Thats no disrespect to Kyokushin, I'd say *insert position of authority here*+w@nker=this

Lots of training is tough and hard, but theres no need for that.

ShaneT

Fair point Roper. But, worth clarification. I was pointing out this sounds like Kyokushin but isn't Kyokushin. The only reason I made the post was because I didn't want people to jump to conclusions.

So, w@nker+appaulingtrainingmethods=this

Kyokushin has no connection to this guys training practises.

That said, we could all be jumping to the wrong conclusions here since we have no idea what actually happens in those classes. People have got hurt in our classes too. It happens.

Roper wrote:

Sounds to me like Kyokushin +w@nker=this

Thats no disrespect to Kyokushin, I'd say *insert position of authority here*+w@nker=this

Lots of training is tough and hard, but theres no need for that.

Roper

True it could well be a sparrng accident, we've had broken toes and fingers, bloody noses and our sparring is quite light and technical. Whats to stop someone in one of our jobs getting the wrong idea!

ShaneT

Roper wrote:

True it could well be a sparrng accident, we've had broken toes and fingers, bloody noses and our sparring is quite light and technical. Whats to stop someone in one of our jobs getting the wrong idea!

:cool:

muckwarrior

I think I heard of this guy. A mate of mine said he went to some martial arts open day a couple of years ago. The instructor basically lined the noobs up and proceeded to kick the **** outta them. Also when they were sparring they were instructed to go at it 100%, full contact which seems a bit ridiculous for total beginners. Needless to say they never went back!

Cake Fiend

Well, your man sounds like a spanner, but your mates are adults and should know better themselves. Noone's forcing them to go to this club and stand in a line to get battered.

Black Swan

Kent Brockman wrote:

The beginner recently got his ribs broken by the 'sensai' during 'conditioning' and has been out of operation for the past 7 weeks.

Instructors that don't exercise control during hardness training are not qualified to teach.

Roper

Blue_Lagoon wrote:

Instructors that don't exercise control during hardness training are not qualified to teach.

I actually find it very hard to exercise control during hardness.....

Leo?

Bwaaahahahahaha!

Cake Fiend

Blue_Lagoon wrote:

Instructors that don't exercise control during hardness training are not qualified to teach.

Unfortunately, you don't need any qualifications to teach... just a bunch of suckers who don't know better, willing to follow your instruction. Hence the large number of crappy MA clubs around.

Black Swan

Roper wrote:

I actually find it very hard to exercise control during hardness.....

But have you broken anyone's ribs or put someone in hospital during hardness training?

We do hardness training in preparation for sparring in tournaments. And yes, you sometimes go home with bruises... but you are better prepared to take a hit and keep fighting after such training.

Black Swan

Cake Fiend wrote:

Unfortunately, you don't need any qualifications to teach... just a bunch of suckers who don't know better, willing to follow your instruction. Hence the large number of crappy MA clubs around.

Being on the west coast facing the Pacific and the largest State in population, we have a constant flow of instructor applicants, both domestic and from South Korea. All our full-time and part-time instructors are 1-dans or above, WTF/Kukkiwon registered. During the interview process, they have to conduct a class and perform better than others applying for the opening. If hired, they are on probation for 90 days. Control is something that all must demonstrate and maintain, or they don't get (or keep) the job.

Mr_G^_^

I was so enraged by the first post ill reply just to that.
This guy is not a martial artist nor a sensei. He is a wannabe hard man that has learned some tricks along the way.
As for conditioning - conditioning is the training of the body so you can take punches and kicks etc. It is not taking the punches and kicks etc before you can actually withstand them. You're supposed to do non contact exercises and moves first before you move onto the real thing. My advice is leave this club. Name and shame. This man is giving martial arts in general a bad name and is probably not acting within the law.
I am 25 and have studied karate since 1993. I've instructed beginners since 1995. In our club we have ways of dealing with such people. He is the guy that should be getting hit and not the students. He needs to be made do push ups and kicked lightly in the ribs from both sides by 2 dedicated high grades until he learns the error of his ways.
Rant over. Boycott that club i say.

dent

Cake Fiend wrote:

Hence the large number of crappy MA clubs around.

To be honest I think the crappy MA clubs are in the minority (Well in Ireland).

Roper

Blue_Lagoon wrote:

But have you broken anyone's ribs or put someone in hospital during hardness training?

Ribs? No, but I'm still young... Put someone in a maternity hospital due to hardness training though.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Roper wrote:

I actually find it very hard to exercise control during hardness.....

For the love of sweet baby Jesus, did I have to read that right after brekkie :mad:

Baggio...

Cake Fiend wrote:

Unfortunately, you don't need any qualifications to teach... just a bunch of suckers who don't know better, willing to follow your instruction. Hence the large number of crappy MA clubs around.

I hear that...

Black Swan

Roper wrote:

Ribs? No, but I'm still young... Put someone in a maternity hospital due to hardness training though.

Sounds like a lot of grappling on the mat, as opposed to a body conditioning?