Why no BJJ Syllabus?

TKD SC

Hello all,

I recently had my first BJJ class and really enjoyed it. Being new to BJJ, I'm just wondering why there's no specific syllabus out there? (or is there?).

I understand that the gradings are mainly competition based and for example if you're continually tapping out white belts and are tapping out blue belts 50% of the time etc, then you'll probably receive your blue belt. Besides this sparring element of the grading (which I think is good idea) are there any other specific requirements for each grading? Have the Gracies never done up a syllabus type structure? Surprising given their various books on bjj. I appreciate this sparring method but is there no knowledge of techniques or something - e.g., as time goes on what if blue belts are not as good as they used to be, will the standard drop? Is there any way of maintaining a certain standard for a certain belt? Eg, knowledge of x, y and z technique; demonstration of these; sparring; self defence escapes; etc...

I know that this is very difficult in all MA's anyway, and there can be huge differences in BB's in TKD for example, which does have a syllabus, but there is a benchmark there none the less (even if its more pattern focused than sparring focused for the gradings in tkd, but that's a whole different thread!). I suppose the q's is, is there a benchmark in BJJ outside of the sparring benchmark? Or is that sufficient?

I read somewhere that bjj is more along the lines of boxing, in that you just train and improve and you know yourself what level you're at, and you get on with things. If that's the case, then great! There are belt levels though, so there must be some way of knowing (for the examiner) what to get people to do for the different gradings? Anyway, I'm begginning to repeat myself! You know what I'm asking!

By the way, this is purely out of curiosity. As I said, I've only been to one class. Hopefully I'll continue it and a grading is last thing on my mind. Doing my tkd gradings is bad enough without doing any more! So, my bjj is purely to train in it and improve / learn. I've no interest in a grading or a belt. If I'm still doing it after a few years, then who knows.

Looking fwd to hearing your answers!

Thanks,

Simon

SBG Ireland

first off have a read of this

exploring the map

i'm sure it'll answer most of your questions.

secondly some instructors do have a syllabus, like roy harris for example.

TKD SC wrote:

Being new to BJJ, I'm just wondering why there's no specific syllabus out there? (or is there?)

even though i do not have a specific syllabus written down there are certain things which i would look for when evaluating for blue belt - and i'm sure this is the same for all instructors.
are they relying on leverage over force?
are they keeping their elbows in?
are they creating space the right way?
are they keeping their base in the guard?
etc etc so while demonstrating 10 different arm bars is of no interest to me i will want to see the fundementals demonstrated....in an Alive environment - there must be a resisting opponent!

TKD SC wrote:

I appreciate this sparring method but is there no knowledge of techniques or something

think about that for a minute....how could they tap out white/blue belts (relying on leverage over force) without 'knowledge of technique'?

TKD SC wrote:

I know that this is very difficult in all MA's anyway, and there can be huge differences in BB's in TKD for example, which does have a syllabus, but there is a benchmark there none the less

what is the point of the benchmark when, like you say, there can be huge difference between one tkd bb and another?

TKD SC wrote:

as time goes on what if blue belts are not as good as they used to be, will the standard drop? Is there any way of maintaining a certain standard for a certain belt?

yes there is - have them have to demonstrate certain principles against a resisting opponent...which is what bjj does!

TKD SC wrote:

Eg, knowledge of x, y and z technique; demonstration of these; sparring; self defence escapes;

ok you're saying the same thing here a number of ways but again like i said above they have to be able to DO 'self defence escapes' against a resisting opponent eg escape mount position.

TKD SC wrote:

There are belt levels though, so there must be some way of knowing (for the examiner) what to get people to do for the different gradings?

yes there is - as explained in the 'exploring the map' post above.

TKD SC wrote:

As I said, I've only been to one class. Hopefully I'll continue it and a grading is last thing on my mind.

good luck with your training

mark.leonard

Best of luck with your continued training TKD SC. John has ably answered your questions above, so I will just add that coming from a TKD background myself, I know how hard it can be to move from a very structured traditional progression system to an alive functional progression. Give yourself a year and it will make an awful lot more sense, I can barely understand what my hang-ups now when I look back, I'm sure that it will be the same for you.

Dragan

Excuse me for jumping in, but i thought this would be a good place to test my understanding of the way BJJ works?

As far as i can tell, to hold a grade you need to be able to roll comfortably with people of the same grade. So lets say to get a blue, you need to be comfortable and able to control, tap people who would be blue belts? In order to advance beyond that you need to be able to control and tap blue belts easily, and be able to be comfortable with purple belts etc?

I understand that on a grading level it is far more individual than that, but that has been my understanding as to the basics of the belts and there indicators in BJJ.

So, am i barking up the wrong tree?

Damo W

Since he got a mention above, here are the requirements for Blue Belt from Roy Harris's site....

http://www.royharris.com/articles/?sec=6&id=1024

TKD SC

Hi John,
Many thanks for your reply. I'll probably make a mess of doing these quotes below, so I'll type in CAPS in case!

SBG Ireland wrote:

first off have a read of this

exploring the map

i'm sure it'll answer most of your questions.

COOL, WILL LOOK AT DURING LUNCH...


think about that for a minute....how could they tap out white/blue belts (relying on leverage over force) without 'knowledge of technique'?

TRUE!! THINK I WAS THINKING OF "SPARRING" VS "TECHNIQUE" WHICH CAN BE DIFF IN TKD BUT PROB NOT IN BJJ!


what is the point of the benchmark when, like you say, there can be huge difference between one tkd bb and another?
WELL, THE TECHNICAL KNOWL IS THERE BUT YES, CAN BE BIG DIFF'S IN THE PRACTICALITIES!! SUPPOSE TKD COMES DOWN TO PATTERNS KNOWL (WHICH IS WEIGHTED HIGHLY IN GRADINGS) & THEN THE SPARRING / SD SIDE, WHILE BJJ DOESN'T HAVE THE WHOLE PATTERNS ISSUE!


yes there is - have them have to demonstrate certain principles against a resisting opponent...which is what bjj does!
OK. IS THAT WHAT IT IS, THE PRINCIPLES MORESO AND EFFECTIVENESS AND MAYBE RANGE OF TECHNIQUES AS OPPOSED TO DOING SPECIFIC TECHNIQUES, LIKE TECHNIQUE 1, TECHNIQUE 2 ETC?


ok you're saying the same thing here a number of ways
REPETITION, REPETITION, REPETITION!!!

good luck with your training

THANK YOU!
How do you do quoting properly?
Thanks for the reply John, will go and read that article now. I know once I get into regular training (and do more than one class!), it will all make more sense, but was just curious on how gradings work / what people are graded on if there's no syllabus.
Cheers,
Simon

TKD SC

mark.leonard wrote:

Best of luck with your continued training TKD SC. John has ably answered your questions above, so I will just add that coming from a TKD background myself, I know how hard it can be to move from a very structured traditional progression system to an alive functional progression. Give yourself a year and it will make an awful lot more sense, I can barely understand what my hang-ups now when I look back, I'm sure that it will be the same for you.

Thanks Mark.
(where did you used do tkd?)

mark.leonard

I still teach Taekwondo in the NUI, Galway (www.nuigalwaytkd.com), TKD remains an awful lot of fun, but I find BJJ and MMA more fulfilling.

Khannie

TKD SC wrote:

How do you do quoting properly?

Like this:

[quote=person_you_want_to_quote]
thing they said
[/quote]

your reply...

[quote=person_you_want_to_quote]
another thing they said thing they said
[/quote]

your reply in here

edit: it's basically: [quote] is start quote and [/quote] is end quote.

Not sure if any of that helps. It's difficult to explain.

SBG Ireland

Dragon - you're fairly much on the money there

Simon - yes you're more or less right there

nothing can replace about 2yrs consistant training on the mat to fully understand the how's and why's

Tim_Murphy

Hi Simon,

I'm from a TKD background as well, similar to Mark. BJJ in general certainly has a very different approach to training compared to TKD. It will add a whole new dimension to your training. You might even learn some ideas/principles that you can take into your TKD training. It's a road I went down myself a few years ago! Best of luck with it.

Roper

We should come up with a BJJ syllabus. And some one and three step rolling techniques, right here, online, today.

You guys go first, I'll sit back and count the money.

Tim_Murphy

And some one and three step rolling techniques

way ahead of you. :rolleyes:

cowzerp

Step 1-positioning.

Roper

Tim_Murphy wrote:

way ahead of you. :rolleyes:

Tim, when are you in dublin again we'll film the syllabus DVD. Not for youtube though strictly for the paying customer.

Tim_Murphy

Not for youtube though strictly for the paying customer.

When it's anything I'm involved in that goes without saying!!

Ger Healy

And some one and three step rolling techniques

hey what happened to the LUMA!!!!!! Don't they have that sown up

Roper

Ger Healy wrote:

hey what happened to the LUMA!!!!!! Don't they have that sown up

You snooze, you lose. I've poached Murphy from LUMA, to form DAKMA! Dublin and Kerry Martial Arts! He doesn't even know it yet, but the contract is in the post, and will remain there, just like my car tax...

SorGan

TKD SC wrote:

Hello all,

I recently had my first BJJ class and really enjoyed it. Being new to BJJ, I'm just wondering why there's no specific syllabus out there? (or is there?).

I understand that the gradings are mainly competition based and for example if you're continually tapping out white belts and are tapping out blue belts 50% of the time etc, then you'll probably receive your blue belt. Besides this sparring element of the grading (which I think is good idea) are there any other specific requirements for each grading? Have the Gracies never done up a syllabus type structure? Surprising given their various books on bjj. I appreciate this sparring method but is there no knowledge of techniques or something - e.g., as time goes on what if blue belts are not as good as they used to be, will the standard drop? Is there any way of maintaining a certain standard for a certain belt? Eg, knowledge of x, y and z technique; demonstration of these; sparring; self defence escapes; etc...

I know that this is very difficult in all MA's anyway, and there can be huge differences in BB's in TKD for example, which does have a syllabus, but there is a benchmark there none the less (even if its more pattern focused than sparring focused for the gradings in tkd, but that's a whole different thread!). I suppose the q's is, is there a benchmark in BJJ outside of the sparring benchmark? Or is that sufficient?

I read somewhere that bjj is more along the lines of boxing, in that you just train and improve and you know yourself what level you're at, and you get on with things. If that's the case, then great! There are belt levels though, so there must be some way of knowing (for the examiner) what to get people to do for the different gradings? Anyway, I'm begginning to repeat myself! You know what I'm asking!

By the way, this is purely out of curiosity. As I said, I've only been to one class. Hopefully I'll continue it and a grading is last thing on my mind. Doing my tkd gradings is bad enough without doing any more! So, my bjj is purely to train in it and improve / learn. I've no interest in a grading or a belt. If I'm still doing it after a few years, then who knows.

Looking fwd to hearing your answers!

Thanks,

Simon

simple!
they all make it up as they go along:D

Tim_Murphy

Dublin and Kerry Martial Arts!

If only I didn't live in Galway now.

Roper

Tim_Murphy wrote:

If only I didn't live in Galway now.

Where will you end up next Tim?:D