10000 euro to invest

blockman

Help needed, I have 10000 euro of hard earned cash to invest. I would be willing to put it away for 5yrs plus and take medium to high risk.

Has anyone got any info of where to invest?.

drdre

blockman wrote:

Help needed, I have 10000 euro of hard earned cash to invest. I would be willing to put it away for 5yrs plus and take medium to high risk.

Has anyone got any info of where to invest?.

From what people have told me rabo seems the best.You should check it out, it gives 5% interest

A Random Walk

If I was looking for medium to high risk over a longish term it would always be equities. For relatively small amounts, I would avoid individual shares but would buy either ETFs or Funds - this would depend on fees over the period as ETFs tend to be more expensive to buy, but will have usually lower management charges & vice versa for funds. If investing in funds I would focus on low fees and the level of risk. But mostly fees (Quinn looks best to me right now) With either the ETF or Fund route you would be picking a set of investments that suit your risk profile - the riskier the fund the more it will fluctuate.

You might also want to read up on dollar cost averaging (lots of info on the web) and whether that is a strategy you want to adopt, or alternatively you may be happy to invest it all on day 1.

I don't know much about property, someone else could advise.

Saruman

You could TRY prizebonds for a few years. 10k you would have a better chance of winning than my £300 punts Then if nothing happens sell them back for what you paid for them, no gain but no loss either

drdre

Saruman wrote:

You could TRY prizebonds for a few years. 10k you would have a better chance of winning than my £300 punts Then if nothing happens sell them back for what you paid for them, no gain but no loss either

I would agree with you.Every time i bought prize bonds i got 75 euro cheque.so best thing is buy 1000 prize bonds 10 times and you might even make 750 in a matter of days.Worth a try and when you get 750 lodge it into rabo and get 5% there and 20 euro for joning. This sounds interesting

A Random Walk

Saruman wrote:

Then if nothing happens sell them back for what you paid for them, no gain but no loss either

Inflation is the problem though. 10,000 in your pocket now could well be worth half that in 10 years time. Prize bonds are a tax on the mathematically challenged.

blockman

drdre wrote:

From what people have told me rabo seems the best.You should check it out, it gives 5% interest

I hear rabo advertised on the radio all the time, will my 10000 earn 500 in the first year?.

drdre

blockman wrote:

I hear rabo advertised on the radio all the time, will my 10000 earn 500 in the first year?.

Here you go
http://www.rabodirect.ie/savings-ireland/savingstools/moneygrow_savings.asp?p=2

Time Magazine

blockman wrote:

I hear rabo advertised on the radio all the time, will my 10000 earn 500 in the first year?.

No. The 5% is guaranteed only until January 1st and I would expect the rate would fall thereafter. You're only guaranteed €250, with 20% DIRT on that, leaving you with a fairly crap €200.

Prize bonds are very foolish imo.

Neither of the above are medium-to-high risk investments.

On March 1st I spoke of how the price of oil and the share price of BP were highly correlated and thus a rise in the price of oil would raise the share price of BP. As was widely reported on the news today prices have been rising.

From Yahoo! Finance:


Since March the BP share price has risen from under $60 to just under $70, about a 15% increase. Had you invested €10,000 in March, you'd have earned €1,500 less fees and tax, which isn't bad in for three months. Certainly beats the €100 or so you'd make in a Rabo account, or another account giving 5% less fees and DIRT.

Now of course the issue is you picking a stock that will go up over the next number of months, which is a dodgy bet. But luckily you're risk averse.

drdre

Ibid wrote:

No. The 5% is guaranteed only until January 1st and I would expect the rate would fall thereafter. You're only guaranteed €250, with 20% DIRT on that, leaving you with a fairly crap €200.

Prize bonds are very foolish imo.

Neither of the above are medium-to-high risk investments.

On March 1st I spoke of how the price of oil and the share price of BP were highly correlated and thus a rise in the price of oil would raise the share price of BP. As was widely reported on the news today prices have been rising.

From Yahoo! Finance:


Since March the BP share price has risen from under $60 to just under $70, about a 15% increase. Had you invested €10,000 in March, you'd have earned €1,500 less fees and tax, which isn't bad in for three months. Certainly beats the €100 or so you'd make in a Rabo account, or another account giving 5% less fees and DIRT.

Now of course the issue is you picking a stock that will go up over the next number of months, which is a dodgy bet. But luckily you're risk averse.

Thats easy to say but not easy to do if you dont have a clue about it.Where as what other people saud about prizebonds and rabo is more practical and you are guarnteed.The shares is just luck and you could lose the 1,500 instead of making profit

Time Magazine

drdre wrote:

Thats easy to say but not easy to do if you dont have a clue about it.Where as what other people saud about prizebonds and rabo is more practical and you are guarnteed.The shares is just luck and you could lose the 1,500 instead of making profit

He wanted a medium-to-high risk investment, not a guarantee.

A Random Walk

Putting your money in a deposit account is low risk and will get you about 4%.

That's fine for money you need in the near future, but with inflation running at about 4% too you're barely holding the value of your money. To make a better return, you are going to have to invest it in something, and the only way you can get that higher return is by accepting a higher risk.

The price of shares goes up and down, but over a long period they have provided good returns. If you are investing for 10 years, you shouldn't care less if the price of your shares drops tomorrow. The ability to understand risk/reward is what marks a real investor and you don't need to be a genius to understand it - just do some reading and educate yourself financially.

SteadyEddie

If you want medium/high risk over 5 years you can not go wrong with splitting it in 2 or 3 funds. If I was you, I would look at potential growth areas, and if your investing over 5 years you will help smooth out market ups and downs. Sectors I would look at include: A green energy fund, India, China, Natural resources. Check out Merrill Lynch new energy fund - one I hold and believe has a bright future over the next 5 years. All IMO, and note I would have a greater propensity to risk than some other people on this board...

blockman

SteadyEddie wrote:

If you want medium/high risk over 5 years you can not go wrong with splitting it in 2 or 3 funds. If I was you, I would look at potential growth areas, and if your investing over 5 years you will help smooth out market ups and downs. Sectors I would look at include: A green energy fund, India, China, Natural resources. Check out Merrill Lynch new energy fund - one I hold and believe has a bright future over the next 5 years. All IMO, and note I would have a greater propensity to risk than some other people on this board...

Do you have a website i can view for further info?.

blockman

A Random Walk wrote:

Putting your money in a deposit account is low risk and will get you about 4%.

That's fine for money you need in the near future, but with inflation running at about 4% too you're barely holding the value of your money. To make a better return, you are going to have to invest it in something, and the only way you can get that higher return is by accepting a higher risk.

The price of shares goes up and down, but over a long period they have provided good returns. If you are investing for 10 years, you shouldn't care less if the price of your shares drops tomorrow. The ability to understand risk/reward is what marks a real investor and you don't need to be a genius to understand it - just do some reading and educate yourself financially.

Can one trade shares online or do you have to visit a stockbroker. (excuse my lack of knowledge)

blockman

Ibid wrote:

No. The 5% is guaranteed only until January 1st and I would expect the rate would fall thereafter. You're only guaranteed €250, with 20% DIRT on that, leaving you with a fairly crap €200.

Prize bonds are very foolish imo.

Neither of the above are medium-to-high risk investments.

On March 1st I spoke of how the price of oil and the share price of BP were highly correlated and thus a rise in the price of oil would raise the share price of BP. As was widely reported on the news today prices have been rising.

From Yahoo! Finance:


Since March the BP share price has risen from under $60 to just under $70, about a 15% increase. Had you invested €10,000 in March, you'd have earned €1,500 less fees and tax, which isn't bad in for three months. Certainly beats the €100 or so you'd make in a Rabo account, or another account giving 5% less fees and DIRT.

Now of course the issue is you picking a stock that will go up over the next number of months, which is a dodgy bet. But luckily you're risk averse.

That all sounds very attractive, where is the best place to monitor shares and buy them?.

A Random Walk

blockman wrote:

That all sounds very attractive, where is the best place to monitor shares and buy them?.

Block, I'd suggest you do a small bit of reading before putting your money down. There's some good Irish personal finance books (most bookshops) you can buy - someone mentioned Eddie Hobbs had one, which should give you the basics.

It'll save any expensive mistakes.

Arthurdaly

Hi,

I think your money would be best served in an investment fund, the equity markets have been great over the last 3/5 years!
I'm in an european equity fund and its been sweet of late, of course things can change. I dont think you should be contemplating investing in individual shares, think of an investment fund as a backing a horse each way.

Sonnenblumen

Arthurdaly wrote:

Hi,

I think your money would be best served in an investment fund, the equity markets have been great over the last 3/5 years!
I'm in an european equity fund and its been sweet of late, of course things can change. I dont think you should be contemplating investing in individual shares, think of an investment fund as a backing a horse each way.

With an equity fund you are spreading your risk over a number of stocks, which might suit some people if they are 'risk averse' and would like to cushion against loss, but comparing it to backing a horse isn't true. For starters you might reduce your exposure when markets dip, there can be restrictions on exiting a fund as well as penalty charges. You also lose entitlement to any individual dividends as well as paying fund charges etc etc.

A simple cost effective comparison would be to research which stocks are in your preferred fund and buy them yourself incrementally or open an account and do your basic trades and save money.

An each way bet is backing against yourself and even then you can lose.

BendiBus

My personal choice would be a spread of energy funds, both new energy and 'traditional' (oil, gas) etc.

I don't have the time to research individual stocks but for reasons of growing global population, economic growth in the huge countries of China & India, environment, politics & enegry security, and the difficulty of maintining traditional supplies of a limited resource from the dodgiest parts of the world, I can only see energy prices going one way. So energy funds satisfy my personal requirements.

A Random Walk

Sonnenblumen wrote:

A simple cost effective comparison would be to research which stocks are in your preferred fund and buy them yourself incrementally or open an account and do your basic trades and save money.

mmm not quite.

In an active fund, you only find out what shares the active fund manager has chosen after the fact (if ever).

In an index fund, the index components will be recomputed on a regular basis. Fees for buying and selling will badly affect the small investors returns.

I don't understand what you're saying about dividends. For many investors they will prefer to see the dividends the funds receive stay within the fund, because their gain would be taxed at the CGT rate and not at their marginal tax rate.

Other investors would prefer cash dividends (e.g. if you are retired and want cash income).

Arthurdaly

When i referred to backing a horse each way I meant that he's reducing his exposure to risk.

You also lose entitlement to any individual dividends as well as paying fund charges etc etc.

Not sure what your on about here, the dividend income is included in the nav per share so hes not losing out on any dividends! Thats if he invests in a non distributing fund.
Theres a reason for these charges, you've got professionals with a considerable amount of knowledge looking after your investment.
Find a fund that is consistently beating the index and those fees are worth it.
Like a previous poster mentioned the energy,chinese and Indian funds seem to be the way to go.

Time Magazine

Ibid wrote:

No. The 5% is guaranteed only until January 1st and I would expect the rate would fall thereafter. You're only guaranteed €250, with 20% DIRT on that, leaving you with a fairly crap €200.

Prize bonds are very foolish imo.

Neither of the above are medium-to-high risk investments.

On March 1st I spoke of how the price of oil and the share price of BP were highly correlated and thus a rise in the price of oil would raise the share price of BP. As was widely reported on the news today prices have been rising.

From Yahoo! Finance:


Since March the BP share price has risen from under $60 to just under $70, about a 15% increase. Had you invested €10,000 in March, you'd have earned €1,500 less fees and tax, which isn't bad in for three months. Certainly beats the €100 or so you'd make in a Rabo account, or another account giving 5% less fees and DIRT.

Now of course the issue is you picking a stock that will go up over the next number of months, which is a dodgy bet. But luckily you're risk averse.

My comment on BP's shareprice in March seems to have been very accurate. Above $75 now when it was under $60 on March 1st, more than a 25% increase in four and a half months. Yet everyone's running to €20 free from Rabo with 5% subject to DIRT until January...

TheBigLebowski

Ibid wrote:

My comment on BP's shareprice in March seems to have been very accurate. Above $75 now when it was under $60 on March 1st, more than a 25% increase in four and a half months. Yet everyone's running to €20 free from Rabo with 5% subject to DIRT until January...

Hindsight is 20-20 vision my man. What if the price of oil had fallen and BP as a result. You would have been glad of your 5% from Rabo for that period...

mike65

Thats why its a medium to high risk investment. Read the terms!

Mike.

Sonnenblumen

Ibid wrote:

No. The 5% is guaranteed only until January 1st and I would expect the rate would fall thereafter. You're only guaranteed €250, with 20% DIRT on that, leaving you with a fairly crap €200.

Prize bonds are very foolish imo.

Neither of the above are medium-to-high risk investments.

On March 1st I spoke of how the price of oil and the share price of BP were highly correlated and thus a rise in the price of oil would raise the share price of BP. As was widely reported on the news today prices have been rising.

From Yahoo! Finance:


Since March the BP share price has risen from under $60 to just under $70, about a 15% increase. Had you invested €10,000 in March, you'd have earned €1,500 less fees and tax, which isn't bad in for three months. Certainly beats the €100 or so you'd make in a Rabo account, or another account giving 5% less fees and DIRT.

Now of course the issue is you picking a stock that will go up over the next number of months, which is a dodgy bet. But luckily you're risk averse.

I'd agree with Ibid.

Sonnenblumen

If in May you put € 10k into C&C shares, they'd probably be worth € 9k now, but if you bought into Greencore or ICG well you'd be looking at perhaps €15k.

But that's the fun and the risk and sometimes timing (good and/or bad).


Now's a great time to buy into most ISEQ shares, overall market down 15-17%, but a bounce back within 6-9 months all but guaranteed.

Watch the space.

A Random Walk

Sonnenblumen wrote:

Now's a great time to buy into most ISEQ shares, overall market down 15-17%, but a bounce back within 6-9 months all but guaranteed.

What's guaranteed about it? I see nothing but fear and uncertainty reflected in the ISEQ. With property prices falling and a prediction of 30,000 job losses in construction, I can't really see any bounce back for construction or banking related stocks in the near term.

Some parts of the ISEQ are oversold though I agree.

Sonnenblumen

Fall in property prices will have a negligible impact on ISEQ, eg, a 10% in prop prices is technically a crash, and nobody is forecasting falls anywhere remortely near 10%, anyways property prices have increased by 300% over last 10 years, so a few points off is no big deal. Also much huffing and puffing being made about first time buyers, they account for a small amount of overall property market and even at new house build/entry level < 40%.

Build rates are approx 300% corresponding rates 10 years ago, and most industry commentators expect a year on year vol req of 60,000 thats double the rate 6 years ago and just < 20,000 off the record rate which had everyone reeling and unsustainable. A fall off 0f 30,000 jobs is over pesimisstic, even a fall off in 10,000 is difficult to see. There is huge development work going on and what is most likely is that some companies will switch from housing to commercial.

Finally all the major Irish banks have < 10% to Irish property market, so again this sector has been vastly oversold. If there is no significant upturn in all Irish bank share prices before Spring 2008, I expect at least one to be taken over.

Meanwhile there's money out waiting to be made and sometimes easier than you think.

A Random Walk

We'll agree to disagree then - I think your assumptions and figures on housing are well off the mark.

p.s. Commercial activity is falling also.

Cute Hoor

Here are a couple of extracts from the CRH 2006 annual report.


CRH has delivered a 19.7% compound annual growth in Total Shareholder Return from 1970 to 2006.
A shareholder who invested the equivalent of €100 in 1970 and re-invested gross dividends would hold shares valued at €65,429 based on a share price of €31.54 at 31st December 2006.


BTW I have no connection with CRH but they appear to be a very safe home for your money if you are putting it away for something like 5 years and you can time your exit.

Good luck blockman with investing your hard earned cash.

GP

Cute Hoor wrote:

Here are a couple of extracts from the CRH 2006 annual report.


CRH has delivered a 19.7% compound annual growth in Total Shareholder Return from 1970 to 2006.
A shareholder who invested the equivalent of €100 in 1970 and re-invested gross dividends would hold shares valued at €65,429 based on a share price of €31.54 at 31st December 2006.


BTW I have no connection with CRH but they appear to be a very safe home for your money if you are putting it away for something like 5 years and you can time your exit.

Good luck blockman with investing your hard earned cash.

Their CE is epxected to step down soon and he is credited with turning teir fortunes around since he became Group CE.

Not sure if that will have an impact in the near future..

paulus837

blockman wrote: »

Can one trade shares online or do you have to visit a stockbroker. (excuse my lack of knowledge)

are u related to the Queen ? with ur" can one "

paulus837

at the end of the day its all about money:mad::(

mike65

Oh noes Blockman can speak proper!

Fizman

paulus837 wrote: »

are u related to the Queen ? with ur" can one "

Resurrecting a 2 year old thread, to ask that??

Slow Sunday eh? :pac:

userfriendly2

I've read through this post and got some good info but then realized its a few years old:(

Looking for more up-to-date info on investing a similar amount of money for the short term??

PS: No notable knowledge about this sort of stuff:D

Sonnenblumen

Cute Hoor wrote: »

Here are a couple of extracts from the CRH 2006 annual report.


CRH has delivered a 19.7% compound annual growth in Total Shareholder Return from 1970 to 2006.
A shareholder who invested the equivalent of €100 in 1970 and re-invested gross dividends would hold shares valued at €65,429 based on a share price of €31.54 at 31st December 2006.


BTW I have no connection with CRH but they appear to be a very safe home for your money if you are putting it away for something like 5 years and you can time your exit.

Good luck blockman with investing your hard earned cash.

....then and now...:eek:

Onikage

A Random Walk wrote: »

Inflation is the problem though. 10,000 in your pocket now could well be worth half that in 10 years time. Prize bonds are a tax on the mathematically challenged.

LOL

Confused pb with the lotto

I'd say anyone who invested in prizebonds in 2007 is laughing now

Jim2007

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

....then and now...:eek:

Well as they say "past performance is no indication of future returns"....

But that aside, this post should server as a warning to people about how much more they need to know when investing in individual shares than in other types of situation.

I know it has been said before, but I'll say it again.... when investing in individual share you need to pick a couple of sector, learn the industry very well and then learn about all the major players. It is the only way to reduce investing risks.

The other thing, is that most people have no problem picking out the good quality companies, but few people have the ability to determine when the shares are on sale...

Buying an over valued stock in an industry you don't understand will lead to only one outcome....

bear_hunter

Jim2007 wrote: »

Well as they say "past performance is no indication of future returns"....

But that aside, this post should server as a warning to people about how much more they need to know when investing in individual shares than in other types of situation.

I know it has been said before, but I'll say it again.... when investing in individual share you need to pick a couple of sector, learn the industry very well and then learn about all the major players. It is the only way to reduce investing risks.

The other thing, is that most people have no problem picking out the good quality companies, but few people have the ability to determine when the shares are on sale...

Buying an over valued stock in an industry you don't understand will lead to only one outcome....

hi jim , just want to say thanks for a stock tip you left nearly a year ago , richemont was priced at 38 CHF at the time , over 50 today

Jim2007

bear_hunter wrote: »

hi jim , just want to say thanks for a stock tip you left nearly a year ago , richemont was priced at 38 CHF at the time , over 50 today

Yes bought at the right price it's a good long term hold and being in the luxury goods sector, it goes on sale every few years, so there will be more buying opportunities in the future.

bear_hunter

Jim2007 wrote: »

Yes bought at the right price it's a good long term hold and being in the luxury goods sector, it goes on sale every few years, so there will be more buying opportunities in the future.

when you say it goes on sale every few years , i presume you mean it sells off and becomes a bargain stock ?

another luxury goods maker i own is ( MUL) mulberry , it went from £22 to £ 15 after missing an earnings result around five weeks ago , i bought in a small amount , it made remarkable gains this past two years and is very mmuch focused on china

BESman

Time Magazine wrote: »

No. The 5% is guaranteed only until January 1st and I would expect the rate would fall thereafter. You're only guaranteed €250, with 20% DIRT on that, leaving you with a fairly crap €200.

Prize bonds are very foolish imo.

Neither of the above are medium-to-high risk investments.

On March 1st I spoke of how the price of oil and the share price of BP were highly correlated and thus a rise in the price of oil would raise the share price of BP. As was widely reported on the news today prices have been rising.

From Yahoo! Finance:


Since March the BP share price has risen from under $60 to just under $70, about a 15% increase. Had you invested €10,000 in March, you'd have earned €1,500 less fees and tax, which isn't bad in for three months. Certainly beats the €100 or so you'd make in a Rabo account, or another account giving 5% less fees and DIRT.

Now of course the issue is you picking a stock that will go up over the next number of months, which is a dodgy bet. But luckily you're risk averse.

Hope you dropped these before the Gulf of Mexico incident..

DarkDusk

BESman wrote: »

Hope you dropped these before the Gulf of Mexico incident..

Haha, I lol'd at your post! I was going to say the exactly same thing!

userfriendly2

Can you open an account with a broker with 2000 euro and deposit smaller monthly amounts or is this amount far too small for investing in shares?
Also in Ireland which broker would offer a potential investor like myself the options to invest in in diverse funds or ETF's?

sob1467

Sonnenblumen wrote: »

Now's a great time to buy into most ISEQ shares, overall market down 15-17%, but a bounce back within 6-9 months all but guaranteed.

Watch the space.

Very interesting reading this thread five years after it was written and to see the difference in the expectation of what would happen and what actually happened.

bull_ring

userfriendly2 wrote: »

Can you open an account with a broker with 2000 euro and deposit smaller monthly amounts or is this amount far too small for investing in shares?
Also in Ireland which broker would offer a potential investor like myself the options to invest in in diverse funds or ETF's?

any of the brokers will facilitate the buying of etf,s , i use td investing , much cheaper than the likes of goodbodies

userfriendly2

bull_ring wrote: »

any of the brokers will facilitate the buying of etf,s , i use td investing , much cheaper than the likes of goodbodies

Cheers, I checked out TD investing but it seems like they are execution only and I don't think, at the moment anyway, I have the confidence to invest without proper advice:-(