Digital vs Film

gobby

Hey all,

I have an old 35mm SLR camera with a few lenses. I have been using it for maybe one year now. It is an Olympus OM2 with a 50mm, 28mm and a zoom (I think thats 70mm - 222mm)

I have a friend who is in Aisa at the moment and I know that it is possible for him to pick me up a dSLR cheaper than you could get in Ireland.

I am not sure though. I love my 35mm and it has certainly got me used to a lot of the fundamentals of photography. Even with the cheaper prices in Aisa these dSLR cameras are still quite expensive.

Could anyone point out to me why I might be better off with a dSLR rather then my 35mm SLR?

I am trying to weigh up the pro's and con's really...

Cheers,
G.

melekalikimaka

you dont have costs, no developing costs which saves a hell of alot. you can easily 'develop' yourself, change iso on the fly, em film is dying slowly, and everyone will think your hip cos your all digital

gobby

melekalikimaka wrote:

everyone will think your hip cos your all digital

Lol... Yeah I don't mind paying to have the film developed. Also, I was thinking of setting up a darkroom. Can't do that with digital.

Better control of ISO would defo be a plus. I think its possible to get crazy high ISO too. Am I mistaken here?

melekalikimaka

depends on the camera, some are 1600, some 3200

elven

Well, you say you love your 35mm, what is the doubt thats creeping in that makes you think you should go digital?

I think the number 1 difference is the instant feedback, being able to check your histogram to see what the exposure is like.

Other reasons might include:

No cost limits to volume of pictures if you have larger memory cards
Being able to change ISO
Choosing whether to convert to bw after you look at the shot
Only having to bear the expense of printing the ones you want to

but...

Film grain is beautiful
There's a definite magic in the process of having film developed and anticipating the results
You can try alternative processes with unpredictable results
You can possibly (open to discussion) print larger from a negative than a digital file
You already know your film camera well so you don't have to get to know a load of different buttons
It makes a nicer noise when you trip the shutter and the film winds on

elven

How could I forget???!!!

No sensor dust in a film camera - you get a new sensor every shot

peter1892

Use them both - that's what I do. Film for B&W, digital for colour.

Oh, and remember to reset the ISO on digital, it's a pain when you've shot 50 daylight images at 1600 :rolleyes:

Dr.Louis

Unless you're going to sell your kit to buy the dSLR, why can you not use both? I use film and digital all the time- couldn't live without either of them!

peter1892

elven wrote:

It makes a nicer noise when you trip the shutter and the film winds on

Actually my 30D makes a much nicer noise than the 300V does! It's a more reassuring KERCHUNK when the shutter goes off

eas

melekalikimaka wrote:

you dont have costs, no developing costs which saves a hell of alot. you can easily 'develop' yourself,

what you save on developing you can invest in new computers, bundles of software, memory cards and other hardware techy bits.

If you decide to buy a DSLR, don't do it because you think it will save you money -

Zillah

Pro Digital
- No costs (no buying film, no develping)
- No inhibition. I learned more about photography in the first week with my dSLR than I did in months of film because I was able to snap away and experiment without having to worry about wasting film.
- No waiting, you get a preview straight away and need only to get to a PC to see it in its full size.
- Easy for post-processing. You can copy them straight to PC and perform photoshopping to make any adjustments you like. While you can scan film its a rather complicated process that pisses me off no end.
- ISO. My Nikon D70 can flip between ISO 200-1600 instantly, which is absolutely invaluable, and a fairly low range compared to newer cameras. ISO 100-3200 is fairly common now.

Con Digital
- Usually a little soft, but that can be fixed in photoshop without any trouble.
- Unique colour balance/grain etc has to be added in post processing as an extra step.
- Print sizes are a little low, you need a fairly expensive camera to get a full quality print above A4.
- Tonal range for B&W is usually much lower than dedicated B&W film like Illford.

Generally I am drastically in favour of dSLR. The only occasion where I would consider film these days is if I wanted a huge print or if I was doing something that was going to be B&W, and only then if the digital was noticeable lacking, which isn't guaranteed.

gobby

Great advice guys. Much appreciated. Have some thinking to do now!

I would never sell on my 35mm so I guess if I did go to dSLR I would always have the option of using the old reliable.

I guess my trouble comes from the fact that the old 35mm is kinda sentimental. My father passed it on to me. (he hasn't croaked or anything!) The camera and lenses are all older than me! They were bought in Saudi Arabia. So the camera means a lot to me. Still, it shouldn't stop me from picking up a dSLR.

I guess what I could do is use the old 35mm for B&W and maybe set up my own darkroom and use the dSLR for everything else. Apart from nights on the beer of course. Have the point and shoot for that.

Another friend of mine who was in aisa picked up the canon rebel xti with a lens, case and 2gig fast card for like €650. Have to go price that camera in Ireland and see how much more expensive it is here!

FinoBlad

elven wrote:

Film grain is beautiful

Music to my ears.

One poster says film is dying slowly and clearly the market has shrunk but its not dying and it never will.

New films are out this year, more are in R+D, new papers are out next month. Ilford are saying they are totally viable now and turning profits.

Choose digital because you want to, not because film is said to be dying, coz its not And enjoy your 35mm, every picture will remind you of your Dad and if there comes a day he's not around this will mean the world to you. (Sorry for sounding morbid, mine passed suddenly last year)

leinsterman

We'll ... there is plenty of info above on pros and cons ... but consider this -

Why is it one versus the other ? Why not both ? Go for a system that keeps the same lenses and all you need to worry about is bodies ...

Personally I see them as two very different media with a common heritage ... but very different possibilities for expression ... for most (but not all of us) digital gets you more involed in the end to end process of producing and publishing images ... by this I mean that many people shooting film don't get too involved in the post production process ... where much of the real skill, and indeed the fun, lies ...

This is why in my case I still shoot the odd roll of film ... but only black and white (I don't know how to develop in colour)... because I enjoy using the darkroom as much as I do making the images ... but strangely enough I only started developing from last September and it was this and using digital SLR's that got me into film ... and I love both ... I'd never trade one for the other ... it has become a bit of a cliche now to say this but ... there is a very special moment in film when you pop a piece of paper into some chemicals and an image appears in front of you ... very satisfying!

People often say that film needs developing etc ... but don't forget you need onward investment in digital too ... you need a computer for example ... you need skills to use the computer ... you need software ... and if your really into it, you probably also want a printer ... and inks cost a good bit ... even if not and you have to get your images printed ... you then get into issues of calibration of your end to end digital printing workflow ... by this I mean what looks right on a screen may not look right in print if you are not careful about colour management ... sending pictures off via the interent to be printed may not produce the results you like ...

Having said all of that ... I would say I prefer shooting digital to film ... mostly for its flexibility and level of involvement in the end to end process ... but film does have that special moment ... you don't get that in digital:)

magicbastarder

re the costs - how many films would you take a year?
kitting yourself out with a DSLR, lenses and accessories won't be vanishingly cheap; it's worth calculating how long it would take for the DSLR to pay for itself.

pete4130

Shoot both. I still have my F100. I'd never part with it. I stil lhave my old darkroom set up in my parents places too and use it occasionally. My GF now uses my F100 (she got an upgrade from my old Pentax when I turned digital and she inherited the F100). I'm just happy the camera is still being used. Since I mainly use digital now I've found myself getting an interest in more quirky older film cameras, using 120, holga's etc... to keep myself involved.
There still isn't a feeling of anticipation and a slight bit of fear not knowing how things are going to turn out and forgetting what you even shot!

magicbastarder

i shoot both, too. as i find myself pointing out here a few times of late, you can (or could, anyway) get an adapter to use your MF zuiko lenses on olympus DSLRs, albeit with reduced functionality.

Calina

Leaving aside the capital costs of camera/printer/image processing software, the issue with cost is this:

on average, on film I might have shot 1000 photos a year. Last year I took 15000 photographs. Now I didn't print them all but I printed enough to exceed my film processing costs...bear that in mind.

FinoBlad

Gobby, you say that even in asia the dslrs are quite expensive. Personally i think cost-wise that dslrs are the thin end of the wedge. Once you get one you will probably get it with the basic starter lens and wont have it long before you want better lenses, then printers, storage devices, backup devices, calibration gear, and a good monitor. Then the new model dslr comes out :eek:

The dslr is the easy bit I think.

I'd a look at your gallery if thats what youre producing with an OM2 then we should all get one

gobby

FinoBlad wrote:

I'd a look at your gallery if thats what youre producing with an OM2 then we should all get one

Actually, only one of those was taken with the OM. Probably my favourite though. The shot of the mini was taken with the SLR. The rest were with my 3 megapixel point and shoot (Pentax)

edit: Thanks for the kind words

gobby

magicbastarder wrote:

i shoot both, too. as i find myself pointing out here a few times of late, you can (or could, anyway) get an adapter to use your MF zuiko lenses on olympus DSLRs, albeit with reduced functionality.

Now that is something interesting. I had seen these cameras but I was under the impression that you cannot use the old 35mm lenses with them! Never knew you could get an adaptor.

Having said that, my old lenses are all glass rather than plastic and are heavy. Especially the zoom! :eek:

magicbastarder

the old lenses have a 2x conversion factor on an olympus DSLR; i.e. the 28mm lens will act like a 56mm lens would on your OM2.
also, the aperture stops down to the selected aperture constantly, not just at exposure.

minikin

why not get the best of both worlds?
Ilford have just announced the launch of a high resolution (equivalent to 20megapixels) 12gb cf card that has the exposure latitude, sharpness and grain structure of Pan F. They can be pre-ordered from Conns Cameras. Ha Ha Ha, please phone!!!!

gobby

minikin wrote:

why no get the best of both worlds?
Ilford have just announced the launch of a high resolution (equivalent to 20megapixels) 12gb cf card that has the exposure latitude, sharpness and grain structure of Pan F. They can be pre-ordered from Conns Cameras. Ha Ha Ha, please phone!!!!

I don't understand this post. Could you elaborate please?

leinsterman

gobby wrote:

I don't understand this post. Could you elaborate please?

... and I thought it was just me ... so I was afraid to ask!!

can you please clarify a 20Mpix CF card ? How does that work ?

I guess I should google it or look at the ilford web site ...

Paulw

After trying Google, I can't find anything about it. I can find details of 12Gb CF cards, but storage is storage.

The image quality still comes from the camera, not the storage card.

Now I'm curious.

leinsterman

Hmnnn ... I wonder if the hidden text at the end of the message from minikin is a clue to the ramblings of a sick mind;)

... perhaps someone is attempting a wind up ?

dalk

Definitely a windup...

Or maybe its a 'special' CF card that doubles up as a sensor. You just stick it onto the film plane of your old film camera and it records images when the shutter is released... Brilliant!

...No its a windup.

leinsterman

c'mon minikin ... don't keep us in suspense ...

DaireQuinlan

minikin wrote:

why no get the best of both worlds?
Ilford have just announced the launch of a high resolution (equivalent to 20megapixels) 12gb cf card that has the exposure latitude, sharpness and grain structure of Pan F. They can be pre-ordered from Conns Cameras.

ROFL. On the other hand, I always wondered why Nikon for example didn't make digital backs for their pro level cameras, F5, F4 etc. I'd say they would have sold like hotcakes. I guess given the opportunity of instead selling people a new camera every two years they grabbed it instead.

minikin

yay, i did a funny:) (wonder if anyone called conns?)

Morlar

minikin wrote:

yay, i did a funny:) (wonder if anyone called conns?)

If anybody rang the conns people are probably still laughing : )

Fajitas!

If anyone rang Conn's, I can imagine the staff of Conn's trying their best to get some in...and rack up the price on them...

leinsterman

Fajitas! wrote:

If anyone rang Conn's, I can imagine the staff of Conn's trying their best to get some in...and rack up the price on them...

Mate ... if anyone rang Conns they probably sold them one !!! ... and for shed loads of cash too ...

The clue is in the name of the shop!

leinsterman

minikin wrote:

why not get the best of both worlds?
Ilford have just announced the launch of a high resolution (equivalent to 20megapixels) 12gb cf card that has the exposure latitude, sharpness and grain structure of Pan F. They can be pre-ordered from Conns Cameras. Ha Ha Ha, please phone!!!!

Hey editing your posts is cheating mate!!!

gobby

I seriously doubt anyone phoned.

magicbastarder

well, i bought my way deeper into film territory yesterday; bought a hasselblad 500CM with 80mm f2.8 planar, beattie screen, and A12 back, and one of these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Olympus-Zuiko-OM-90mm-f2-0-f2-Macro-Boxed_W0QQitemZ330124377019QQihZ014QQcategoryZ3344QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem

all for €1100 quid. happy days. oh, and there was about 40 rolls of out of date film thrown in, too.

DaireQuinlan

magicbastarder wrote:

well, i bought my way deeper into film territory yesterday; bought a hasselblad 500CM with 80mm f2.8 planar, beattie screen, and A12 back, and one of these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Olympus-Zuiko-OM-90mm-f2-0-f2-Macro-Boxed_W0QQitemZ330124377019QQihZ014QQcategoryZ3344QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem

all for €1100 quid. happy days. oh, and there was about 40 rolls of out of date film thrown in, too.

I'm jealous :-) My Yashica TLR has served me admirably in the medium format world for quite a while, but I keep on getting that itch to get one of the big 6x6 SLRs for versatilities sakes. A bronica rather than a hassleblad maybe. Loads of good medium format kit seems to be going for a song nowadays. Where did you get it ? Ebay ? B&H or somewhere similar ?

magicbastarder

a mate, he's cutting down on his (insanely large) collection of film kit. he's selling ten cameras.

i have a rolleiflex which was a gift, which i'll be handing back now. the hasselblad is much easier to use.

Fajitas!

I have the same model Hassy, lovely camera.

Great Ka-Chunk out of it too

magicbastarder

all we have to do is wait for secondhand digital backs to fall in price.

Fajitas!

Ha!

Funny stuff.

FinoBlad

magicbastarder wrote:

all we have to do is wait for secondhand digital backs to fall in price.

Heres one http://www.irishphotographers.ie/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11

magicbastarder

a friend of a friend bought a phase one p45.
they threw in a free (beefy) apple mac with the purchase.

Fajitas!

I'll get the college to buy one next year tbh