Multiple barreled firearms

jaycee

I've been wondering if anyone has licensed a "combo gun" here.
what I'm talking about is a firearm with more than one barrel which may shoot two (or more ) different calibers. E.G.. 12 Gauge Shot and .22lr .

The common term for this type of firearm is a "Drilling" although that's not strictly correct as there are many different types .

How would these be treated when it came to license it. a 12 Gauge or a .22lr ..?
Presumably it would have to be described as both , but that raises another issue.. Would it need one firearms certificate ..or two..? It is after all just one gun as there is only one "Action" involved . It would only have one serial number so logically it would require a cert that noted both calibers and one would pay the higher fee associated with the rifle barrel.

I have a feeling it would be enough to send "Pulse " into a tailspin and if so
Pulse needs reprogramming to accommodate processing such an application.

This is a little gif to illustrate the different types..



And a brief description of the correct names..
Most of these types originated in Germany so I'm sure CG will be able to fill us in some more...;)


Büchsflinte
Side by side shotgun-rifle
Bockbüchsflinte
Over/under shotgun-rifle
Drilling
Side by side shotgun, with rifle barrel centered below the smoothbores
Bockdrilling
Shotgun barrel above large rifle barrel, with small rifle barrel to one side slightly above large rifle barrel
Doppelbüchsdrilling
Side by side rifle, with shotgun barrel centered below them
Vierling
Same as drilling, but with an ADDITIONAL small rifle barrel positioned either above or immediately below the smoothbores.


This one is a Savage Model 24 in .223 over a 20 Gauge...Nice..!

Question I suppose is how many barrel numbers are there?

If there are two, then I guess you can get two certs.

jaycee

One serial number ....one gun ! ..... One license ...?

Should be...

One license for a gun:
Brand: X
NUmber: z
Calibre: y/v

Two barrels... one scope... one shotgun
How the hell does that work (accurately?)

The zero on the rimmy would be different from that of the cf would it not?

Clare gunner

I have one.
A Savage 22mag over 20 GA. It is a one liscense in my case.The rifle.Obviously as it is the more "dangerous" [and more money making one:rolleyes: ]. I had all the same nonsense put up to me by gardai and dealers.Two liscenses,not liscenseable,one liscense,dooable only to people who are 7th sons of 7th sons ,born under the sign of Capricorn,etc etc.
I also asked about buying ammo for the 20 Ga with the liscense.Again no problem with any dealers,sofar after explaining the situation.The Gardai said they are happy enough with the knowledge that it is a combo gun and see no reason to issue a shotgun cert on it.Again results may vary with your local station/Super.

I cannot recommend them highly enough for a walkabout/forage/tractor /pickup truck gun.when you are just out for a strool and are not after anything in paticular.They are hardy and robust.But I would get somone to redo the trigger they are like barn door latches:(

The correct term for them isnt "drilling"[German Drei= three]
But bockbuchsflinte rifle/shotgun combo in our lingo.
Drillings themselves are the mainstay of German hunters,they can even argue thats all you need .
A double SXS, left barrel shoots point to 50 meters with slugs,big calibre rifle barrel underneath,and some have a 22 insert for coup de grace shots or vermin. Scope mounts or open sights,trouble is compared to the Savage,they cost up in the thousands.:eek:

Edit,after reading Iainnash post.
It doesnt affect accruacy .Cos the rifle barrel has been point shot from the factory with a specific load and bullet.Thats what makes the Drilling so expensive.The left barrel and rifle barrel are sweated and wedged together/apart to shoot dead on at 50 and 100 meters for the rifle.Same as a SXS double rifle.
On the Vierling it is a big problem,moreso on the Bock drilling.Hence these are the most expensive and rarest of the combo guns. Blaser has a more cheaper version,where the barrel can be moved with allen screws at the muzzle which is in a kind of shroud or fake barrel to improve the accuracy with different loads.Questionable wether it is that effective,and not much cheaper.

Thats pretty cool.. never heard of those before today and read about them on two forums withing an hour!!

like the gun rack by the way





edit: does the .22 round clear like a cartridge or does it have to pulled out?

jaycee

Clare gunner wrote:

I have one.
A Savage 22mag over 20 GA. It is a one liscense in my case.The rifle.Obviously as it is the more "dangerous" [and more money making one:rolleyes: ].

How did I know CG would have an input on this...

Ok then , ....following the logic that it is one gun , even though it is capable of using widely different calibers and happily licensed as such ; I presume the authorities took the view that there is only one actual firearm involved.. A very sensible and informed decision .

That being the case , using the same reasoning .... why should a Sako Quad owner for example , be expected to pay for a separate rifle license for each barrel ... ?. The same logic should apply . One should pay a license for the largest caliber you own and further barrels/calibers should only require recording on your existing license , but no further expense.

It's not just the Sako Quad either , there are many rifles and shotguns that provide the facility for a caliber change ; most of the "Savage" line are built to allow an easy change of barrels.

Interesting to know that there is a precedent for the well informed policy of licensing the firearm as one entity and not trying to license the component parts.

Umiq88

Also opens up the issue of multiple shotgun barrels for serious clay shooters i very much doubt they'll have a seperate licence for each barrel

sidneyreilly

How would it work on the license regarding the different calibers and ammunition? Problem came up before with .357/.38 revolver. Told one or the other

Clare gunner

[

QUOTE=jaycee]How did I know CG would have an input on this...

Proably cos I told you I had one of these??:D

Ok then , ....following the logic that it is one gun , even though it is capable of using widely different calibers and happily licensed as such ; I presume the authorities took the view that there is only one actual firearm involved.. A very sensible and informed decision .

As I said;I can only speak for my experiance,and maybe the local Gardai had the good enough sense to either listen to me or decided that this was the easiest way out of a tricky [Clare Gunner] situation:D .
I dont know wether this is national Garda firearms policy with dealing with such guns,or wether it was the local Supers way of sorting it out,or the local FAO way of registering the gun. Results may vary with your local application.It would be nice for some other feedback from somone who has one of these as well.

That being the case , using the same reasoning .... why should a Sako Quad owner for example , be expected to pay for a separate rifle license for each barrel ... ?. The same logic should apply . One should pay a license for the largest caliber you own and further barrels/calibers should only require recording on your existing license , but no further expense.

Proably on the fact that they can make more money out of liscensing 4 different "rifles" than one? As in my case they liscensed the more expensive option ,the rifle.
By rights,this system should work on this basis ; any gun that has interchangeable calibres in a same group is liscensesd as one EG the quad.17,22lr,22mag,22 hornet[?] or say 357mag/38 special, 44mag/44 special,
45 ACP/45 Win Mag. All one liscense logically,ditto conversion kits for 45/9mm pistols to 22lr.
I reckon the trouble is the cert itself as well. Because there is this liscensing the gun,not the man situation here.Our certs dont allow for any variation on the themes.
You have a cert for a pistol,rifle,shotgun,crossbow.Not for a multi calibre system,or combo weapon.Remember this was drawn up in the 1920s,and hasnt advanced much to catch up with firearms technology advancement.
So whats the Gardai to do?Liscense it on the more revenue gathering system,and issue individual liscenses per calibre is about the safest option for them,methinks.

It's not just the Sako Quad either , there are many rifles and shotguns that provide the facility for a caliber change ; most of the "Savage" line are built to allow an easy change of barrels.

Indeed,but they are more like the Finnish Valmet[Good luck finding one:( ]
Or the old type Brno O/U shotgun system. Well out of production,or you are into custom work guns again.
The Savage types will only work within their frame limitations. IE mines the 24 D model,it will apprently accept the C model,22lr/410 barrel system. But not the E model 222/20 Ga,and upwards.Nor will the bigger calibre barrels interchange easily amongst themselves.Savage changed the designs over the years in the frames to screw that idea.There is a discussion board on this gun alone.Google Savage 24 D for a lead.

Interesting to know that there is a precedent for the well informed policy of licensing the firearm as one entity and not trying to license the component parts.

Again,use with caution,we will live in hope that that is so.But until somone else confirms this liscensing system,dont take it as gospel.

Pista
The shotgun barrels are another bucket of haddock! You can have as many as you want for a paticular shotgun.Only thing the Gardai want on that is the serial no of the gun stamped on each barrel.Same calibre,no problem.At least thats what my crowd say up here.

Sidney,
that is somwhat confirming,what I said about individual weapon liscensing.We dont have the facility to put down 357/38 on the liscense.And to explain to somone the finer nuances of caliber interchangeability who doesnt know anything about guns is pretty difficult.So best bet put down 357,and then find a dealer who will sell 38 ammo to you on the 357. An Irish solution I know,but one that isnt strictly illegal either,a grey situation.

Clare gunner

iainnash wrote:

Thats pretty cool.. never heard of those before today and read about them on two forums withing an hour!!

like the gun rack by the way





edit: does the .22 round clear like a cartridge or does it have to pulled out?

Cheers Ian.:)
No, both the 22 and 20 Ga are extracted,not ejected.On the Drillings,you can chose extraction /ejection on the shotgun barrels when you order the gun.But the rifle is always extraction.

sidneyreilly

Clare gunner wrote:

[:)


Pista
The shotgun barrels are another bucket of haddock! You can have as many as you want for a paticular shotgun.Only thing the Gardai want on that is the serial no of the gun stamped on each barrel.Same calibre,no problem.At least thats what my crowd say up here.

Does this apply to rifle and pistol barrels as well once they have the same S/n?

As regards the .357/.38 delema it's prob best to go for .38 on FAC, as it says .357 on the side of the revolver. Mostly going to shoot .38 anyhoo.

Clare gunner

Would ASSume so.As it is the same caliber.You are not getting a different caliber for the gun.