Colonic irrigation

daRobot

I'm thinking of getting one of these done, has anyone had any experiences with one, or a place that they'd recommend to go?

I-like-eggs,mmm

Yes i've had a course done recently. Great if you're feeling sluggish, bloated, tired, bad skin, irregular bowel movements, things like that... but follow the nutritional advice they give you and you'll feel great and also drop a few pounds;) No point going off eating any old crap you want, a diet close to nature is whats best- always.

I got it done in Absolute Health, if you google it you'll find it, it's in rathfarnham.

It's relatively painfree, just slight discomfort but you'll feel great after. It's recommended to get a course of 4. Anyway the girl who did it was brilliant!

PrettyInPunk

Round how much is it?

PoleStar

Colonic Irrigation and the Theory of Autointoxication: A Triumph of Ignorance over Science.

Editorial

Journal of Clinical Gastroenterology. 24(4):196-198, June 1997.
Ernst, E. M.D., Ph.d., F.R.C.P. (Edin)
Abstract:
Autointoxication is an ancient theory based on the belief that intestinal waste products can poison the body and are a major contributor to many, if not all, diseases. In the 19th century, it was the ruling doctrine of medicine and led "colonic quackery" in various guises. By the turn of the century, it had received some apparent backing from science. When it became clear that the scientific rationale was wrong and colonic irrigation was not merely useless but potentially dangerous, it was exposed as quackery and subsequently went into a decline. Today we are witnessing a resurgence of colonic irrigation based on little less than the old bogus claims and the impressive power of vested interests. Even today's experts on colonic irrigation can only provide theories and anecdotes in its support. It seems, therefore, that ignorance is celebrating a triumph over science.

(C) Lippincott-Raven Publishers

Thought you might find this interesting. I always find it interesting how, as a doctor, any treatment I prescribe has to be proven scientificially, and yet alternative practitioners are free to do as they please.

Colonic irrigation has no proven benefit and is known to cause complications in some cases. In one case in the literature, a patient was admitted confused with hyponatraemia (low salt in the blood) due to a colonic irrigation.

Sorry I aint trying to put a damper on it but honestly if one of my family were thinking of tryin it I would say "eat healthy, live healthy and you will achieve far more benefit"

DrIndy

Colonic irrigation is a load of crap, literally and metaphorically. It has no evidence base for benefit whatsoever and is generally castigated by the medical profession.

It also risks rupturing your bowel in the process.

naturalessence_

Dont knock untill you have tried it! Anyway, its seen as a complementary therapy & not as an alternative therapy - there is a huge difference here! In my experience, I found it to be very beneficial, it aided my digestive & skin problems & overall felt brilliant and lighter afterwards! I had my sessions in Walmer in Raheny, as far as I remember it was €260 for a course of 3 sessions - well worth every penny!

Owen

I'd be fascinated to read a scientific paper how washing out your large intestine improves your skin condition, and decreases fatigue. This is right up there with 'crystals channel energy into your body' for me.

naturalessence_

Ignorance is bliss!!! The colon is an organ of excretion like the skin, by cleansing the colon, you are speeding up the process of eliminating stagnant waste therefore helping to improve skin conditions - ie congestion & spots, Im no doctor, but i cant deny that this really helped me!

2Scoops

naturalessence_ wrote:

Dont knock untill you have tried it! Anyway, its seen as a complementary therapy & not as an alternative therapy - there is a huge difference here! In my experience, I found it to be very beneficial, it aided my digestive & skin problems & overall felt brilliant and lighter afterwards! I had my sessions in Walmer in Raheny, as far as I remember it was €260 for a course of 3 sessions - well worth every penny!

My understanding is that 'complementary' therapy means it has a limited evidence base behind it, while 'alternative' means it's baseless rubbish. I'm not aware of any such evidence for CI and I'm pretty sure it's not recognized by WHO. Anecdotal evidence like yours is of minimal scientific value.

An expensive laxative, tbh - except more risk involved.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f5gtNyPniA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pH7Wi5nW9d0

penn and teller bull**** episode on colonic irrigation, pretty informative and interesting.

PoleStar

naturalessence_ wrote:

Ignorance is bliss!!! The colon is an organ of excretion like the skin, by cleansing the colon, you are speeding up the process of eliminating stagnant waste therefore helping to improve skin conditions - ie congestion & spots, Im no doctor, but i cant deny that this really helped me!

Cleanssing the colon! are you kidding me! If it does work so well, well why then has it not been accepted by the population at large. When you go down to the GP with your eczema flaring up, why doesnt he prescribe a bout of irrigation? Ill tell you why, because it has no proof it works.

You might say "Oh you're just a non-believing science guy!". Well I will believe anything that someone shows works, and that means showing me some evidence. You have just pointed out why alternative therapies make so much money: people believe them when they say stuff like "cleanse your colon". What does that mean? Nothing. Unless you have some serious medical condition, your bowel actually cleanses itself, once a day for most people! And contrary to what the complementary therapists would have you believe, NO there are not years of toxins just lying around in your gut causin you harm. The evolutionary process over the last couple of millions of years has already found a way to deal with those: passing water and taking a crap.

You could have paid me 260 euro and I would have waved a magic want over you and you probably would have got as much benefit.

What really bugs me is that these guys can do these procedures which are potentially life threatening (yes I am telling the truth: check the medical literature) with no actual proof that it works. Can you imagine a doctor saying to you "I am going to shove this big tube up your rear end to cure your hayfever, ive no proof it works but hey, give me money and I will do it for you, and sure it will have some placebo effect anyway"? No I dont think so, he would be struck off the medical register before you would have time to call your lawyer. Somehow the alternative practitioner gets away with it. He can use phrases like"toxins" and "cleanse" with not a shred of evidence that it works, take your money and have no responsibility for the consequences.

And when they do perforate your bowel and nearly kill you (again it has happened), do you think your "alternative" doctor will be there to cleanse you when you come out of surgery? I think not, he will continue on happy as larry counting the shillings.

naturalessence_

My understanding is that 'complementary' therapy means it has a limited evidence base behind it, while 'alternative' means it's baseless rubbish. I'm not aware of any such evidence for CI and I'm pretty sure it's not recognized by WHO. Anecdotal evidence like yours is of minimal scientific value.

Just to clarify your ignorance - Complementary therapy is used together with conventional treatments
Alternative therapy is used instead of conventional treatments.

naturalessence_

PoleStar wrote:

Cleanssing the colon! are you kidding me! If it does work so well, [/B]When you go down to the GP with your eczema flaring up, why doesnt he prescribe a bout of irrigation? Ill tell you why, because it has no proof it works.

You might say "Oh you're just a non-believing science guy!". Well I will believe anything that someone shows works, and that means showing me some evidence. You have just pointed out why alternative therapies make so much money: people believe them when they say stuff like "cleanse your colon". What does that mean? Nothing. Unless you have some serious medical condition, your bowel actually cleanses itself, once a day for most people! And contrary to what the complementary therapists would have you believe, NO there are not years of toxins just lying around in your gut causin you harm. The evolutionary process over the last couple of millions of years has already found a way to deal with those: passing water and taking a crap.

You could have paid me 260 euro and I would have waved a magic want over you and you probably would have got as much benefit.

What really bugs me is that these guys can do these procedures which are potentially life threatening (yes I am telling the truth: check the medical literature) with no actual proof that it works. Can you imagine a doctor saying to you "I am going to shove this big tube up your rear end to cure your hayfever, ive no proof it works but hey, give me money and I will do it for you, and sure it will have some placebo effect anyway"? No I dont think so, he would be struck off the medical register before you would have time to call your lawyer. Somehow the alternative practitioner gets away with it. He can use phrases like"toxins" and "cleanse" with not a shred of evidence that it works, take your money and have no responsibility for the consequences.

And when they do perforate your bowel and nearly kill you (again it has happened), do you think your "alternative" doctor will be there to cleanse you when you come out of surgery? I think not, he will continue on happy as larry counting the shillings.

TBH I actually dont disagree with most of what you claim as in there probably is no scientific research to back up CI, I can only comment on my own experiences which is what the OP had asked for!
I like hundreds of thousands of people seek other methods both complementory & alternative therapy as I, like many have suffered in the hands of G.P's over the years with mis diagnosis & generally been wrongly fobbed off after also handing over mega bucks to some doctors who i firmly believe they bought their medical qualifications over the internet. Sadly, thats life. However, fortunatly there are many other wonderful therapies available such as acupuncture & reflexology which are complementary therapies & are scientifically proven and are covered with most health insurers in Ireland. I wonder if your opinions on these treatments are held in the same regard?

2Scoops

naturalessence_ wrote:

My understanding is that 'complementary' therapy means it has a limited evidence base behind it, while 'alternative' means it's baseless rubbish. I'm not aware of any such evidence for CI and I'm pretty sure it's not recognized by WHO. Anecdotal evidence like yours is of minimal scientific value.

Just to clarify your ignorance - Complementary therapy is used together with conventional treatments
Alternative therapy is used instead of conventional treatments.

Let me clarify what I said because it's certainly not ignorance, though I admit I could have been a bit more politically correct. Complementary therapies have an evidence base and are appropriate for certain situations where there are proven benefits in conjunction with established proven methods. I said 'limited' evidence base because, in my experience, the benefits and uses are dramatically overstated by practitioners.

Alternative means it has no proven effects. If you choose to take it it 'instead of' proven treatments then there's where the real ignorance lies.

naturalessence_ wrote:

TBH I actually dont disagree with most of what you claim as in there probably is no scientific research to back up CI, I can only comment on my own experiences which is what the OP had asked for!
I like hundreds of thousands of people seek other methods both complementory & alternative therapy as I, like many have suffered in the hands of G.P's over the years with mis diagnosis & generally been wrongly fobbed off after also handing over mega bucks to some doctors who i firmly believe they bought their medical qualifications over the internet. Sadly, thats life. However, fortunatly there are many other wonderful therapies available such as acupuncture & reflexology which are complementary therapies & are scientifically proven and are covered with most health insurers in Ireland. I wonder if your opinions on these treatments are held in the same regard?

I sympathize with your experiences at at the hands of some GPs but the solution is to find a good GP, not turn your back on evidence-based treatment. No-one here has a beef with proven 'complementary' therapy - but when the term is used synonymously with 'alternative' (i.e. unproven) it can cause confusion. For CI to be considered 'complementary' then it must have evidence behind it. Your subjectve perception of it as being worthwhile is meaningless in the absence of this evidence.

PoleStar

naturalessence_ wrote:

TBH I actually dont disagree with most of what you claim as in there probably is no scientific research to back up CI, I can only comment on my own experiences which is what the OP had asked for!
I like hundreds of thousands of people seek other methods both complementory & alternative therapy as I, like many have suffered in the hands of G.P's over the years with mis diagnosis & generally been wrongly fobbed off after also handing over mega bucks to some doctors who i firmly believe they bought their medical qualifications over the internet. Sadly, thats life. However, fortunatly there are many other wonderful therapies available such as acupuncture & reflexology which are complementary therapies & are scientifically proven and are covered with most health insurers in Ireland. I wonder if your opinions on these treatments are held in the same regard?

Again you dont seem to get my point.

If someone shows me some evidence that colonic irrigation actually does something then I will be the first to go and get one.

As for acupuncture and reflexology? They not only have been shown to work, but they actually have a valid scientific basis thought activation of certain nerve fibre channels, I wont go into detail.

Colonic irrigation on the other hand? Read my suggested article: people realised over 100 years ago that this was a load of crap, excuse the pun.

I-like-eggs,mmm

PoleStar wrote:

Thought you might find this interesting. I always find it interesting how, as a doctor, any treatment I prescribe has to be proven scientificially, and yet alternative practitioners are free to do as they please.

Colonic irrigation has no proven benefit and is known to cause complications in some cases. In one case in the literature, a patient was admitted confused with hyponatraemia (low salt in the blood) due to a colonic irrigation.

Sorry I aint trying to put a damper on it but honestly if one of my family were thinking of tryin it I would say "eat healthy, live healthy and you will achieve far more benefit"

Really I didn't know that.... I did a bit of research before also, some for it and some against like the article you posted. Apparently it was always done in hospitals particularly on pregnant women- this was mainly for cleanliness, as you know nearly EVERYTHING comes out at birth, lovely

If you check the cochrane library- www.cochrane.org you will find reviews and plenty of clinical trials regarding colonic irrigation/lavage/hydrotherapy... you can't just outrule colonic irrigation by one measily article...

I also found a few articles about using colonic irrigation for prepping patients prior to surgery/ gastro surgeries instead or with that nasty klean prep/ picolax they've to drink...

There are only 4 or 5 properly trained people to carry out colonic irrigation in Ireland and she did warn me to be careful where to go as if it's not done properly it can perforate the bowel and other nasty things can occur etc.. See website for a list of colonic hydrotherapists: http://www.colonic-associationorg/

My opinion: I've had it done, at first I was curious and researched it, found it helpful as I suffer with IBS- yes things can go wrong as you've pointed out... and yes nothing beats a healthy lifestyle.

PoleStar

I-like-eggs,mmm wrote:

Really I didn't know that.... I did a bit of research before also, some for it and some against like the article you posted.

I also found a few articles about using colonic irrigation for prepping patients prior to surgery/ gastro surgeries instead or with that nasty klean prep/ picolax they've to drink...

Yes there may be some for and some against but the majority will say no, the one article I quoted is a review article which is a summary of many articles so its not just one article. Also a casual perusal of a scientific archive such as medline shows not much in favor of.

As for colonic irrigation prior to surgery? This is purely a pre-operative technique to reduce faecal contamination at surgery and reduce the risk of post operative abdominal abscess and is only necessary for certain types of bowel surgery. This is a completely different reason to getting an irrigation for example to improve your skin.

I-like-eggs,mmm

PoleStar wrote:

Yes there may be some for and some against but the majority will say no, the one article I quoted is a review article which is a summary of many articles so its not just one article. Also a casual perusal of a scientific archive such as medline shows not much in favor of.

As for colonic irrigation prior to surgery? This is purely a pre-operative technique to reduce faecal contamination at surgery and reduce the risk of post operative abdominal abscess and is only necessary for certain types of bowel surgery. This is a completely different reason to getting an irrigation for example to improve your skin.

Yeah, fair enough so! I suppose it needs more research and shouldn't be so easily accessible for complaints like skin problems etc. Sure I didn't find it that it had a major impact on my skin.... i still had a couple of spots

Bison

naturalessence_ wrote:

Dont knock untill you have tried it! Anyway, its seen as a complementary therapy & not as an alternative therapy - there is a huge difference here! In my experience, I found it to be very beneficial, it aided my digestive & skin problems & overall felt brilliant and lighter afterwards! I had my sessions in Walmer in Raheny, as far as I remember it was €260 for a course of 3 sessions - well worth every penny!

It's interesting the price that people are prepared to pay for complementary or alternative therapy.

If someone is ill and goes to a GP for 50 euro or gets a tooth out for 80 euro they moan about it for days. I guess it is when people feel that they have no choice in the matter.

Alternatives always seem to sign you up for multiple sessions. I've never heard of anyone going to a Chiro for just one session.

DrIndy

They also cost a hell of a lot more than seeing a GP and the "therapies" that are provided are much more dubious.

daRobot

Well I went and got it done two days ago, and I feel fantastic.

I'd highly recommend it to anyone.

For the people debating it's effectiveness, you've got experience these things to gauge if they work.For me, it was great.

Owen

Watch Penn & Teller's Bullsh*t on youtube if you want to debate the effectiveness of Colonic Irrigation. Complete tripe if you ask me.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

ned78 wrote:

Watch Penn & Teller's Bullsh*t on youtube if you want to debate the effectiveness of Colonic Irrigation. Complete tripe if you ask me.

i posted links to this on the first page.. seriously people, check it out.

don't waste your money on this nonsense.

xsmena

I'm sorry but have you ever had colonic irrigation done, know anyone who has had it done or have any idea at all what you are talking about?

I am a colon hydrotherapist and a nutritional therapist and I can tell you that there is actually quite a bit of scientific evidence behind this procedure. Did you know that you can actually get colonics done on prescription in both America and New Zealand and that it's covered by health insurance? Also, a lot of my patients are referred to me by their doctors.

Out of all the patients who come in to me approx 95% get great benefits from the treatment. The other 5% normally are people who stop coming after only 1-2 treatments and do not stay the course.

I agree that the colon SHOULD be self cleansing every day but there are many people who because of rubbish diets, stress, lack of water or anatomical disorders may not be getting a full clearance or be only going 1-2x per wk or every 2 wks. In that case old toxic matter IS NOT being eliminated from the body and some of these toxins will be reabsorbed through the wall of the colon.

Old matter in the colon becomes quite hard and dry and sticks to the wall of the colon. Colonic irrigation is the only way of getting this old matter out as laxatives will only remove new, softer matter. Laxatives also weaken the bowel muscles over time and may make constipation worse.

Colonics are not a long term solution and should ideally be used in conjunction with a healthy diet but you can not eat the colon clean.

There is very little risk involved with colonics as the tube is only inserted approx 1.8 inches into the rectum. A lot of lubrication is used and the clients rectum actually sucks the tube in on it's own. Also, only 100mbar of pressure is used (when you go to the Dr to get a scope 250mbar of pressure is used) and all modern machines are programmed to shut down if the pressure goes any higher then 100.

I have been doing colonics for a long time and have never seen anyone who has been hurt or come away from a treatment worse then they started off. Most hugely benefit.

I can understand if someone does not want to get this procedure done themselves but can not understand why they would care enough to go out of their way to convince other people not to get it done. Your fears and phobias are your own and, as they are clearly not based on personal experience, are probably best kept to yourself.

DrIndy

if you can post scientific evidence regarding this, it would be very helpful. As you know, there is a lot of pseudomedicine around and this forum is for scientific debate on such procedures.

AmcD

To all the people getting benefit from colonic irrigation: Would you pay somebody to stick a hose down your throat and make you vomit? As far as I am aware the body does a good job in clearing out waste products on its own. This applies whether the person is constipated or not. What about all those helpful gut bacteria that are being sluiced out? If a woman on the pill gets a colonic irrigation I would be worried about pill failure. Those gut bacteria are useful in processing the pill.

tallaght01

xsmena wrote: »

I'm sorry but have you ever had colonic irrigation done, know anyone who has had it done or have any idea at all what you are talking about?

I am a colon hydrotherapist and a nutritional therapist and I can tell you that there is actually quite a bit of scientific evidence behind this procedure. Did you know that you can actually get colonics done on prescription in both America and New Zealand and that it's covered by health insurance? Also, a lot of my patients are referred to me by their doctors.

Out of all the patients who come in to me approx 95% get great benefits from the treatment. The other 5% normally are people who stop coming after only 1-2 treatments and do not stay the course.

I agree that the colon SHOULD be self cleansing every day but there are many people who because of rubbish diets, stress, lack of water or anatomical disorders may not be getting a full clearance or be only going 1-2x per wk or every 2 wks. In that case old toxic matter IS NOT being eliminated from the body and some of these toxins will be reabsorbed through the wall of the colon.

Old matter in the colon becomes quite hard and dry and sticks to the wall of the colon. Colonic irrigation is the only way of getting this old matter out as laxatives will only remove new, softer matter. Laxatives also weaken the bowel muscles over time and may make constipation worse.

Colonics are not a long term solution and should ideally be used in conjunction with a healthy diet but you can not eat the colon clean.

There is very little risk involved with colonics as the tube is only inserted approx 1.8 inches into the rectum. A lot of lubrication is used and the clients rectum actually sucks the tube in on it's own. Also, only 100mbar of pressure is used (when you go to the Dr to get a scope 250mbar of pressure is used) and all modern machines are programmed to shut down if the pressure goes any higher then 100.

I have been doing colonics for a long time and have never seen anyone who has been hurt or come away from a treatment worse then they started off. Most hugely benefit.

I can understand if someone does not want to get this procedure done themselves but can not understand why they would care enough to go out of their way to convince other people not to get it done. Your fears and phobias are your own and, as they are clearly not based on personal experience, are probably best kept to yourself.

Let's get the papers out then. It'll be interesting to read them when you post them.

But, more importantly, do you do colonic irrigation with abnormal bowel anatomy?????

pr43

how much weight do you drop after one session?