Politics in music

klaus flouride

The Recent 'rock the vote' thing has got me thinking, why are bands so reluctant to discuss anything other than their personal emotions and their girlfriends and/or monotous stuff about going out and getting drunk? It can't just be because they think they wouldn't get any money out of it (look at the film director micheal moore or the comedian bill hicks who achieved alot of fame for talking about political issues). Surely some of these 'indie' groups are affected when they watch the news and see innocent people getting blown to bits?

eoin5

I suppose most bands shys away from the serious issues but there are plenty of indie/alt bands that are politically motivated. Sufjan Stevens would be a good example, Bloc Party would be another. I think that many bands kinda paint a scene of modern times and allow us to make up our own minds instead of being directly political themselves like the Artic Monkeys. The Walls do this pretty well too, but its a bit more personal.

nyarlothothep

making political statements could alienate some of their fans/potential fans
also they might not just care enough or arent concerned with politics.

DublinWriter

It's because of three little words - The Dixie Chicks.

Their fan-base almost evaporated overnight because of their anti-war stance on Iraq.

Then there have been other train-wrecks in the past when music meets politics. The Red Wedge movement from the 80's is a classic example with everyone who was involved in it at the time regretting it now.

Music and politics is like oil and water. You might as well be talking about football and politics.

Royale with Cheese

Yeah I'd agree it's a bad idea. I don't like feeling like some band are ramming their political ideolgy down my throat.

Green Day (I wasn't a fan anyway, but didn't hate them) really pissed me off with their last album and sudden turn to politics. Just hopping on the anti-Bush bandwagon.

They've got some good songs but the shíte Rage Against The Machine go on about...

Sinfonia

If we're just talking about modern bands, Radiohead is a good example.

If we're talking about music in general, then I don't even know wheeere to begin. Bob Dylan, NWA, Beethoven...
Music and politics have been tied together for hundreds of years.

Fremen

Asian dub foundation don't talk about anything other than politics.

The Coup are another example (although I hate them )

klaus flouride

In fairness, most of the dixie chicks fans wouldn't be the political sort anyway- but its true that they got alot of undue hassle for just telling the truth. Is it not possible for music to be informative as well as escapist? Surely, if your music is a reflection of the person you are, then it would contain some of your beliefs and principles?

lordgoat

Woody Guthrie.

Kold

Tons of musicians concern themselves with politics. Radiohead, The Coup, Immortal Technique, Foo Fighters to name a few. It's just a little crude to write songs to coincide with elections or whatever. It's one thing to hold views on things but another to produce propaganda... Musicians are no different from everyone else in the way that some of them really just don't give a toss. Which is fair enough, I reckon.

Also, there's always the risk that your political art could simply be a symbol of a failed system... Like futurism and facism.

Garret

lots and lots of bands discuss politics and stuff like that in their lyrics

Sangre

Bono or geldof anyone?

Mushy

I'm more against bands using politics in songs, unless it directly affected them. Prefer songs that have personal touch to them by the musicians involved.

Lemming

klaus flouride wrote:

The Recent 'rock the vote' thing has got me thinking, why are bands so reluctant to discuss anything other than their personal emotions and their girlfriends and/or monotous stuff about going out and getting drunk?

Rage Against The Machine anyone?

Bubs101

DublinWriter wrote:

It's because of three little words - The Dixie Chicks.

Their fan-base almost evaporated overnight because of their anti-war stance on Iraq.

And then they got so much attention and sympathy from people that their average album went on to win a couple of grammy's

I'm a fan of politics in music when it spawns good songs, which it does constantly, the latest being four winds by Bright Eyes

idlesupernova

Bright Eyes Best Lyrics


BRIGHT EYES LYRICS

"When The President Talks To God"

When the president talks to God
Are the conversations brief or long?
Does he ask to rape our women’s' rights
And send poor farm kids off to die?
Does God suggest an oil hike
When the president talks to God?

When the president talks to God
Are the consonants all hard or soft?
Is he resolute all down the line?
Is every issue black or white?
Does what God say ever change his mind
When the president talks to God?

When the president talks to God
Does he fake that drawl or merely nod?
Agree which convicts should be killed?
Where prisons should be built and filled?
Which voter fraud must be concealed
When the president talks to God?

When the president talks to God
I wonder which one plays the better cop
We should find some jobs. the ghetto's broke
No, they're lazy, George, I say we don't
Just give 'em more liquor stores and dirty coke
That's what God recommends

When the president talks to God
Do they drink near beer and go play golf
While they pick which countries to invade
Which Muslim souls still can be saved?
I guess god just calls a spade a spade
When the president talks to God

When the president talks to God
Does he ever think that maybe he's not?
That that voice is just inside his head
When he kneels next to the presidential bed
Does he ever smell his own bull****
When the president talks to God?

I doubt it

I doubt it

walrusgumble

better off bands talk about what they know. i rather bands who talk about everyday life and maybe the listner will sympathise or understand them. i hate bands who dont really know much about politics or what goes on in the real world but decide to blab out stuff. ok you have a choice not to listen to it, but its hard when they are you're favourite band. even eminem jumped on the george bush band wagon (cant remember the song but the video was obvious)

there are lots of bands like that have something to say but dont shove it down ones neck; the jam (in the city, thats entertainment) manic street preachers (cuba etc), stiff little finger. even oasis (for the doubters dont laugh) songs like bring it down, up in the sky, fade away and cigarettes and alcohol were refreshing in 1994, and were angry songs about what happened to their area during the conservative's 1980's. these bands, as another correctly said allows us the listeners to make up our own mind.

is_that_so

Patti Smith is also worth a look. Been going a long long time. Tends to speak her mind.

Karlusss

One of the most important bands who've dealt with politics have been the Clash.

I think it was important in that they just sneered and shouted that they didn't want to join the army, instead of complicated bull****. Makes it accessible.

DerekD Goldfish

lots of bands talk about Politics some pull it off some dont.
One of the more amusing Politics/music corssovers was The Pop Group around in the late 70's early 80's most of thier lyrics/poters/artwork consisted of angry left wing sloganering the band then found out the lebel who released thier first album Y was owned by a parent company who also owned an arms manufacuter.

Attractive Nun

Yeah jaysus there are endless numbers of political bands. Very few of whom don't annoy me greatly. If a band can be somewhat clever or at least not too explicit about their views, then they can get away with it. Most don't, however, and come off as right gob****es IMO. That Bright Eyes song posted above is exactly the type of song that gets on my nerve to no end. Although some of history's greatest artists write very political music - Radiohead, Dylan etc. - and come up with some fantastic music with it (even if I don't always agree with it, politically) I'd tend to favour the 'musicians shutting up about politics' approach if only to rid the world of the piles of absolute ****e peddled by the ill-informed Green Day types who are incapable of independent thought and just spout mindless platitudes.

Well that was a bit of a rant...

klaus flouride

Those bright eyes lyrics were interesting- but I think you should never mix religion and politics. Ever listen to the song "And the band played waltzing matilda"? It was originally written by an australian folk singer called Eric Bogle- Ronnie Drew of the Dubliners covered it later on, great song- more of a story if anything. It tells the story of the failed battle of Gallipoli in the first world war and the experiences of a conscripted soldier;

"oh those that were living just tried to survive,
in that mad world of blood, death and fire,
and for ten weary weeks I kept myself alive,
whilst around me the corpses piled higher"

Later on in the song, after he has been maimed by a bomb, he tells of his return home;

"and when the ship turned into circular quay,
I looked at the place where my legs used to be,
and thank christ there was no one there waiting for me,
To grieve, and to mourn, and to pity"

Fantastic Anti-war song- give it a listen if you think politically orientated songs can't be effective.

Bri~

http://www.propagandhi.com/
&
http://www.g7welcomingcommittee.com/

lordgoat

Yeah i'm a big fan of bright eyes but that song grates on me. I have no problem at all with politics in songs. I love Woody Guthrie and alot of old country music. The Bands - The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down is one of the most moving songs i've ever heard. And as posted a couple of posts up - Waltzing Matilda. It's a horrible song if you listen to it.These are also the songs that last the longest in my opinion. Last Thoughts On Woddy Guthrie (a poem/mantra) by Bob Dylan is also worth reading or listening to but it is quite a long one.

and there's something on your mind that you wanna be saying
that somebody someplace oughta be hearin'
but it's trapped in your tongue and sealed in your head
and it bothers you badly when you're layin' in bed
and no matter how you try you just can't say it
and your scared to your soul you just might forget it
and your eyes get swimmy from the tears in your head
and your pillows of feathers turn to blankets of lead

tywy

No one's mentioned Arcade Fire - Neon Bible! Intervention!

Tar.Aldarion

Suicidal Tendencies

Pat the Baker

i am of the opinion that bands/musicians should just sing there song and stop fukin moaning, i know the war is wrong and the ice is melting but i really dont think george bush is gonna listen to bono or wayne coyne. i hate going to a gig and they stop for 5-10 mins to talk about political issues, if i wanted to hear that i would of stayed home and watched prime time. Thom Yorke was saying he might not play gigs in asia anymore because he would harm the planet by travelling there. i bet he has no problems with his cds been flown over there to be sold and make him money.:mad:

Sinfonia

Pat the Baker wrote:

Thom Yorke was saying he might not play gigs in asia anymore because he would harm the planet by travelling there. i bet he has no problems with his cds been flown over there to be sold and make him money.:mad:

He probably would have problems with that.
And he'd make more money from touring than from record sales.

One Cold Hand

The Manics.

Although I think they admitted that about 70% of what they write about is nonesensical tosh.

Kold

Pat the Baker wrote:

i am of the opinion that bands/musicians should just sing there song and stop fukin moaning, i know the war is wrong and the ice is melting but i really dont think george bush is gonna listen to bono or wayne coyne. i hate going to a gig and they stop for 5-10 mins to talk about political issues, if i wanted to hear that i would of stayed home and watched prime time. Thom Yorke was saying he might not play gigs in asia anymore because he would harm the planet by travelling there. i bet he has no problems with his cds been flown over there to be sold and make him money.:mad:

I don't see any reason why a musician shouldn't make music about what they care about.

It's art, not just for your entertainment.

stovelid

Although obvious sloganeering in music is annoying, a song like 'shipbuilding' is a good example of you can make a decent,
political tune:

Is it worth it
A new winter coat and shoes for the wife
And a bicycle on the boys birthday
Its just a rumour that was spread around town
By the women and children
Soon well be shipbuilding
Well I ask you
The boy said dad theyre going to take me to task
But Ill be back by christmas
Its just a rumour that was spread around town
Somebody said that someone got filled in
For saying that people get killed in
The result of this shipbuilding
With all the will in the world
Diving for dear life
When we could be diving for pearls
Its just a rumour that was spread around town
A telegram or a picture postcard
Within weeks theyll be re-opening the shipyards
And notifying the next of kin
Once again
Its all were skilled in
We will be shipbuilding
With all the will in the world
Diving for dear life
When we could be diving for pearls

doyler442

have any of yee heard Neil Hannons song from The Cake Sale?

Thats a pretty good politics song written especially for George Bush and the Iraq war - very interesting indeed.

Acid_Violet

The problem I would have with bands making political statements is that they'd often be used or use the fact that they're a celebrity to influence people instead of people voting on the actual political issues.

Stevie-O

Karlusss wrote:

One of the most important bands who've dealt with politics have been the Clash.

How did no-one else mention them?? I'm astounded. They made a hell of alot of people, myself included, care about their political stance and outlooks. Without them, there would be no U2, Arctic Monkeys or Libertines. Not even being a U2 fan myself, even I admit that they're the biggest band in the world at the moment. Arctic Monkeys are noted for their witty lyrics, yet when witnessing the Clash's, one hears a direct influence from their lyrics to that of Turner's. Anyone who mentions "Green Day" or the likes as a political band, don't make me laugh!

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

the perceptionists - what have we got to lose, memorial day, people 4 prez, black dialogue.. all from the album black dialogue, ****ing awesome.

http://www.lyricsandsongs.com/song/505903.html

Pat the Baker

Sorry i think my post came over the wrong way. I am not talking about writing political songs, people can write whatever they like. What annoys me is "artists" banging on about stuff in the middle of a gig like Wayne Coynes speeches about George Bush or bono on the news giving out about Africa.

mise_me_fein

I'd be of the opion of Noel Gallagher....it has nothing to do with musicians. i.e. the problems that face the world.

I don't mind what Bono and Bob Geldof do but writing about stuff in songs is a bit cr*ppy

lordgoat

mise_me_fein wrote:

I'd be of the opion of Noel Gallagher....it has nothing to do with musicians. i.e. the problems that face the world.

Sorry but that's an idiotic statement.

Are musicians not part of the world too? Should they be exempt from the problems that face everyone so they can write their two chords banal songs?

i.e. Yes i know it's terrible that people are dying but i'm a musician? What can i do?

Pat the Baker

Geldof and bono have been going on about this for over 20 years and i dont think Africa is a better place after it all.

mise_me_fein

lordgoat wrote:

Sorry but that's an idiotic statement.

Are musicians not part of the world too? Should they be exempt from the problems that face everyone so they can write their two chords banal songs?

i.e. Yes i know it's terrible that people are dying but i'm a musician? What can i do?

You're misreading what I'm saying....it's up to the politicians to deal with all that stuff.............why should a musician get involved??
Not really their place is it?

Wouldn't you rather form your opinion yourself than by listening to what one of your favourite band's think and if you're listening to them because of what they write then you maybe you just ask yourself are you really into music or what musicians write about.

Kold

mise_me_fein wrote:

You're misreading what I'm saying....it's up to the politicians to deal with all that stuff.............why should a musician get involved??
Not really their place is it?

Wouldn't you rather form your opinion yourself than by listening to what one of your favourite band's think and if you're listening to them because of what they write then you maybe you just ask yourself are you really into music or what musicians write about.

It's up to everyone to put pressure on the politicians. Politicians should work for the people.
Music is a form of expression, not just a few chords stuck together so you can tap your feet at work.

lordgoat

mise_me_fein wrote:

You're misreading what I'm saying....it's up to the politicians to deal with all that stuff.............why should a musician get involved??
Not really their place is it?

Wouldn't you rather form your opinion yourself than by listening to what one of your favourite band's think and if you're listening to them because of what they write then you maybe you just ask yourself are you really into music or what musicians write about.

No i'm not. From your latest statement you imply that musicians shouldn't have to deal with political issues why not? They have a vote like everyone else? They write songs about things they are passionate about. Some of them happen to be passionate about serious issues. So why should they not write about it. It's down to the individual to choose to accept it or not. Like everything else. I don't think that their occupation should come into it.

However some of these concepts can be difficult to grasp. And i think it is very easy to say leave to the politicians.
typical of a ***** like gallagher.It's also the same people that give out most bout the politicians when things go wrong. The whole 'it's not my problem attitude really pisses me off'

Not directed at whoever i quoted above:

Grow up. Think for your self. Be the change you want to see in the world.

crybaby

I think alot of bands just cant be arsed rehashing the same old tired anti bush anti war sentiment

Doctor J

Pat the Baker wrote:

Geldof and bono have been going on about this for over 20 years and i dont think Africa is a better place after it all.

You should investigate the subject in greater detail then, both of them have done a hell of a lot to not only provide relief to the suffering of the people of that continent but also to raise public awareness of what was and still is actually there on behalf of the governments of the "developed" countries. If the ****ers who actually do hold the power had the will and intentions of those two, the world would be a significantly better place.

On topic, there have been some excellent moments in music with political meanings, Bullet The Blue Sky, Born In The USA, Sign O' The Times, Once In A Lifetime, Hendrix's Star Spangled Banner performance at Woodstock and loads more, bands like The Clash, early Manics, Living Colour, Public Enemy, ST and countless more who made a point of getting people to think. It's good to see some musicians still have some grasp on the real world and are prepared to rise above yet more mundane love songs or the current despicable trend of grossly materialistic, mysoginistic bull****.

insafehands

Check out Northstar - they're a Canadian band who use politics in their music. I was just looking at an interview where one of the MC's said he didn't want to preach like some bands do, but still wanted to express political feelings.

Music is pretty savage too - http://www.myspace.com/northstar12

DublinWriter

Now I think about it again, Crass and Jello-Biafra were the only 'acts' to ever mix politics with music successfully, mainly because I think they took the politics more seriously than the music.

The rest are just so much posturing.

Pat the Baker

Doctor J wrote:

If the ****ers who actually do hold the power had the will and intentions of those two, the world would be a significantly better place.

But they don’t and they never will. Every 2nd band out there is giving out about Bush but he is still there making the decisions and he doesn’t really give a 5hit what anyone says or thinks. Politicians are only in politics for themselves they might start out with good intentions but they change very quickly, the last thing on there minds is some orphan in Iraq or Sudan. Try as hard as you want but the system never gets beaten unfortunately.

mise_me_fein

lordgoat wrote:

No i'm not. From your latest statement you imply that musicians shouldn't have to deal with political issues why not? They have a vote like everyone else? They write songs about things they are passionate about. Some of them happen to be passionate about serious issues. So why should they not write about it. It's down to the individual to choose to accept it or not. Like everything else. I don't think that their occupation should come into it.

However some of these concepts can be difficult to grasp. And i think it is very easy to say leave to the politicians.
typical of a ***** like gallagher.It's also the same people that give out most bout the politicians when things go wrong. The whole 'it's not my problem attitude really pisses me off'

Not directed at whoever i quoted above:

Grow up. Think for your self. Be the change you want to see in the world.

I just said I had the same opinion as Noel Gallagher. I wasn't influenced by him. I guess he comes from a background where he had enough of his own problems and doesn't need to be worrying about **** that's happening hundreds of miles away.....that feeling has probably stayed with him.

Put it like this, I'd could be alot more influenced by a movie or a TV report than I would be by some musicians thoughts on the subject.

Doctor J

Pat the Baker wrote:

But they don’t and they never will. Every 2nd band out there is giving out about Bush but he is still there making the decisions and he doesn’t really give a 5hit what anyone says or thinks. Politicians are only in politics for themselves they might start out with good intentions but they change very quickly, the last thing on there minds is some orphan in Iraq or Sudan. Try as hard as you want but the system never gets beaten unfortunately.

I don't recall anyone saying it would be. Don't discount the effect of mass public awareness, however, in swaying what gets put on their agendas and, in this regard, both Geldof and Bono have been remarkably successful.

lordgoat

Doctor J wrote:

I don't recall anyone saying it would be. Don't discount the effect of mass public awareness, however, in swaying what gets put on their agendas and, in this regard, both Geldof and Bono have been remarkably successful.

Again spot on Dr. J. I can't stand people who give out about these two, while i will say i do find them annoying at times the amount of good they have done greatly out weighs my annoyance!


Mass public awareness is what we should hope for. A populace of people with informed ideas. I cannot stand the oh it's their problem they don't live in the same country as me, how could it be anything to do with me. It's short sighted.

The fact is the majority of people who pic up on politics in songs are already clued in, they know what's going on. And go out and find out what the situation is. They don't need movies or TV reports to influence them.

The best we can hope for from these is to stir something and make people want to know more and then hopefully they do something about it.
***
Thou shalt give equal worth to tragedies that occur in non-english speaking countries as to those that occur in english speaking countries.
***
Thou shalt think... for yourselves.