Studying Latin without, em, Latin.

SamHamilton

Are there any disadvantages for someone without any previous knowledge of the language studying Latin as part of the TSM?

Can you still put in for schols or is that reserved for Latin A students?

Also, what's it like?

King.Penguin

I don't do latin so let that be a word of caution.

However, it's my understanding that the majority of students in JF latin/classics haven't done latin before (leaving cert,a-levels). Those that do generally take classes with SF (second year).

punka

Hi Sam,

I did Classics at Trinity - I'd done Latin before, but I started Greek from scratch, and I knew quite a few people who started Latin from scratch.

The way the course is structured is that in your first year you do 4 hours of beginners' Latin a week, plus mythology, ancient history, and art and architecture. Then in your second year you take the Latin A first-year course, so you'll be in with first-years who have already done Latin. After that you do the same courses as people in Latin A. The only real disadvantage is that you don't read as much as people with Latin A, as they have an extra year of literature courses.

Latin is hard, and you're going to have to devote a lot of time to it over the year. However, it is do-able, and yes, people who do Latin B frequently take schols and sometimes get it. It is harder to get as you will have to do the same unseen translation papers as the Latin A people, so it's of a slightly higher standard. Also, it's generally a lot harder for people in TSM to get schol, and that seems to be particularly true in subjects in the classics department.

You should also be warned that there's a big jump between doing beginners' Latin in first year and then taking the Latin A course in second year. I'm not sure why this is, and there's not the same problem in Greek, but people frequently do very well in their first year and then struggle a lot in second year. I'm not saying that'll happen to you, but it's something to be aware of. If you do take Latin, the best advice I can give you is to try to do some every single day - including over the holidays and in the summer, even if it's only half an hour. I think part of the reason why people struggle to keep up with the class in second year is due to not having read much over the summer between first and second year.

Having said all that, however, Latin's an amazing course. I can't speak for the Beginner's Latin class itself (but I can certainly put you in touch with people to ask, pm me if you're interested), but the literature courses are fantastic. The TCD Classics department is one of the best in the world and has a very good reputation for training excellent Latinists and Hellenists at the undergrad level. The faculty are all absolutely lovely and really care about the students. There's also a very active social life - there's a Classical society which organises parties and lectures, and since you'll be in small classes you get to know everyone very well. Latin is tough but it's really rewarding once you're able to tackle Virgil, Horace, or Tacitus in the original.

What subject are you planning on taking with it?

SamHamilton

Wow! Thanks for all that.:D

I want to study English literature with Latin. After hearing about all the work involved with Latin and all the reading required for English, I'll probably be locked away in the library all year! But I'm really excited about it!:D Finally, after fourteen years of education I'll get to learn something worthwhile and interesting!:D

Tacitha

One thing you should maybe think about is the Royal Irish Academy's summer course - intensive Latin for beginners. It's meant to be very good, and is designed for people who are going to need university Latin. It might be a bit soon after the Leaving Cert though.

SamHamilton

It might be a bit soon after the Leaving Cert though.

I think I have my last test two days before hand! I won't be able to attend it but I took the names of the books the course uses and I found a few copies on Amazon so I might do a little bit of learning before September. Thanks.:D

By the way Punka, what are your career options if you don't mind me asking? I have to convince my parents that the thousands of euro I'll be taking from their wallets for a degree in English and Latin will eventually be returned and that I won't end up living on the streets!:D I wouldn't mind secondary school teaching but I've read that very few schools teach Latin now a days and there's a surplus in English teachers so ar as I know. I'd prefer lecturing and research but I heard it's very difficult to get a job in that domain.

Stargal

SamHamilton wrote:

I have to convince my parents that the thousands of euro I'll be taking from their wallets for a degree in English and Latin will eventually be returned and that I won't end up living on the streets!:D

Do you mean money for accommodation and food? Because you could always get a part-time job or a bank loan, if it's a big issue getting the money from your parents. The registration fee is over €800 at the start of each academic year, but if you're working in the summer then you'd probably be able to pay it yourself.

SamHamilton

if it's a big issue getting the money from your parents. The registration fee is over €800 at the start of each academic year, but if you're working in the summer then you'd probably be able to pay it yourself.

I made it sound somewhat dramatic when it isn't really. They'll support me in whatever decision I make but they keep asking me: "What kind of job will you get?", "I thought you were going to do maths, why don't you do that and get a good job in a bank?", "Why don't you do medicine?", "Latin? What's Latin?" and I just ramble on about how education is more important than anything else in our lives etc. So I wanted some definite careers that I could throw at them!:D

I'll be working over the summer and money's fine. I'm just overly dramatic.:rolleyes:

punka

Career options - well, you've basically the same options as everyone else with an arts degree. Aside from the obvious jobs of secondary school teacher (and there is definitely still a need for good Latin teachers, both in Ireland and particularly in the UK and the States) and the academic gig, lots of people take law conversion courses, and there are quite a few who go into the Foreign Service as well. I only graduated last year, and of the six of us who finished Classics together four people are taking time out. I'm in graduate school, and another one of my classmates got a job as a translator for the EU. There's not much you can do specifically with Classics or Latin that you can't with any other arts degree (it's not like the old days when Cambridge classics students were recruited for MI5) but I'm told employers like people who've done Latin and/or Greek at university, because it shows you've a very analytical mind and pay close attention to detail, etc.

xeduCat

That summer course sounds great - wish I had the time to do it.

King.Penguin

Does anyone know anyone that did that summer course?

Tacitha

Does anyone know anyone that did that summer course?

Yes - why?

I know a couple of people who did the Latin. I can pass on questions if you like.
I want to do the Greek some time. Hope it goes on a few years yet. They're fantastically cheap for intensive courses, especially with the student offer.

King.Penguin

Tacitha

I'm thinking of doing the greek course and recommending the latin course to my friend. I've never done ancient greek how much can I expect to learn in the course? How is it structured? Is it one week of 3 lectures a day? How long are lectures? Other than the prescribed text what else do you need? Can somebody in 4th year now get the undergrad fee (half price)?

Tacitha

I'm thinking of doing the greek course and recommending the latin course to my friend. I've never done ancient greek how much can I expect to learn in the course? How is it structured? Is it one week of 3 lectures a day? How long are lectures? Other than the prescribed text what else do you need? Can somebody in 4th year now get the undergrad fee (half price)?

I talked to someone who is on the Latin, so can only work on the basis that Greek might be the same. There are contact details on the document I attached earlier on, so you could phone and ask for more information.

Apparently the Latin course covers the first three chapters of the Cambridge textbook. Five chapters is what the 'average class' should do in a year, according to the authors - they're very long chapters, subdivided into about five units each. The Greek books have the same layout, so it looks like you'd learn quite a lot.

You only need the textbooks - you can get them in the library at TCD. The course goes for about ten days, and consists of classes (lecture + questions, marking), followed by breaks and time to do assignments for next session. They're quite evangelical about classical languages so I presume you could get in cheap. Anyway, your student card won't expire until October, will it?

Pythia

I studied Greek for six years in secondary school. I didn't do the course as my Greek was a bit advanced for that. Anyway, just to say to anyone who's thinking of learning Greek, do! It's a really great subject to learn. (Ho he to anyone?)

Marathon Man

LANGUAGE COURSES IN ANCIENT GREEK AND LATIN

Language courses in Ancient Greek and Latin are being organised by the Classical Association of Ireland in co-operation with the Royal Irish Academy, and will take place in Trinity College Dublin, from 25 June – 6 July 2007. There will be a beginners course in Greek and both a beginners and an intermediate course in Latin. The purpose of the School is to provide an opportunity for those with little or no knowledge of Greek or Latin to acquire a foundation in the language in a brief period of intensive study. It is designed to serve the needs of a variety of students; those who may wish to pursue a degree in Classics but have had no opportunity to study Greek or Latin at second level; those who need Greek or Latin as an aid to studies in related fields such as Philosophy, Biblical studies, Theology, Romance languages, English literature and Medieval studies; and those who are simply interested in language and in Hellenic and Roman culture.

The courses will be taught by experienced language teachers and will consist of three meetings per day with intervals for study between sessions. The courses will be for Beginners or, in the case of intermediate Latin, those who have already reached the standard attained at the end of the Beginners course (the first three sections of Reading Latin). It is hoped that, by the end of these courses, students will have acquired a sufficient grasp of the elements of the language to enable them to read simple texts.

The courses are open to all persons over 16. The fee is €200.00 (undergraduates, school students and pensioners €100.00). Registration forms can be obtained from the website http://www.classicalassociation.com or by phoning Professor Andrew Smith 00353 1 7168168. Alternatively please email: Andrew.smith@ucd.ie. Registrations should be sent accompanied by full fee to Language Courses in Greek and Latin, Professor Andrew Smith, School of Classics, University College, Dublin 16 2, by Friday, 15 June, 2007.