Traffic merging from hard shoulder

hi5

Is this legal?
With the increase in traffic on our roads more and more drivers seem to be ignoring stop signs,sneaking on to the hard shoulder,getting up to speed(sometimes) and then merging with the flow motorway style.
this seems to happen on main N routes where traffic can be moving at 100 kmh.
Am I obliged to slow down to let these guys in if their little 1 liters can't quite get them up to speed before they run out of hard shoulder.
I always thought you had to stop at stop signs and not exit until the road is clear to do so.
I have seen rows of traffic trying to merge and they slow everybody down and it must be a danger.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

My understanding is that they shouldn't be on the hard shoulder in the first place and should, as you say, have stopped at the Stop sign.

MrPudding

I am confused by yuor post it does not seem to make sense.

Looking at it practically, would you rather someone gets up to speed on the hard shoulder and merges with little disruption or starts from 0 into traffic moving at 100?

You say people in 1 litre cars cause to to slow dow when they merge at not quite 100. Hoe much would you have to slow down if they pull onto the road and start from 0?

MrP

hi5

MrPudding wrote:

I am confused by yuor post it does not seem to make sense.

Looking at it practically, would you rather someone gets up to speed on the hard shoulder and merges with little disruption or starts from 0 into traffic moving at 100?

You say people in 1 litre cars cause to to slow dow when they merge at not quite 100. Hoe much would you have to slow down if they pull onto the road and start from 0?

MrP

What may seem practical may not always be legal,I always try to drive by the rules of the road so other users know what to anticipate,I expect the same from them.
If people make up their own rules because the assume them to make more sense or are more practical then you end up with a free for all and may as well not have any rules.
If someone pulls out in front of me,causing me to brake heavily, having not stopped at the stop sign and waited for the road to clear,is this not illegal?
If someone pulls out in the distance but the vehicle they are driving (it could be a heavily loaded truck-used 1 liter cars as an example)means they cannot get up to speed quickly then I am quite happy to coast or gently brake until I reach them.

blastman

So why close up behind someone attempting to "gently" merge with traffic and then complain about him/her? It might not be strictly legal, but it's safer.

embraer170

In a number of places there are roadmarkings to specifically stop people from doing this.

hi5

So it is illegal. Thanks thats all I wanted to know:) .

hobochris

First of all you are not insured to drive on the hard shoulder... (Tow trucks require extra insurance to be able to do this)..

Second it is illegal to drive on the hard shoulder regardless...

part of driving is having Patience, Im guessing that this is only an issue because the people who do this dont have the Patience to slow down and wait for suitable gap to be available... instead they continue on and attempt to merge at putting other road users and themselves..

They dont allow you to drive on the hard shoulder for a reason.For example, what if a hgv's airbrakes fail, it would have to use the hard shoulder to slowly come to a stop, meaning that any vehicles in the hard shoulder would be at risk as the hgv couldnt brake for them. It for reason like this why the rules of the road state that should you brake down you should exit yuor vehicle for the passenger door and do not attempt to re-enter until assistance arrives or if it is an emerency.

Hotblack Desiato

hobochris wrote:

First of all you are not insured to drive on the hard shoulder... (Tow trucks require extra insurance to be able to do this)..

Rubbish. You are insured in any public place within the meaning of the Road Traffic Act (which includes a lot of private property too.)

Second it is illegal to drive on the hard shoulder regardless...

Only on a motorway.

part of driving is having Patience, Im guessing that this is only an issue because the people who do this dont have the Patience to slow down and wait for suitable gap to be available... instead they continue on and attempt to merge at putting other road users and themselves..

That's one of our biggest problems. Another is people thinking they know the rules by osmosis, or listening to some guy down the pub, rather than actually readingthe, you know, what is it... er... Rules of the Road that's it!

Dr. Loon

hi5 wrote:

I am quite happy to coast .

Eh... that's not good my friend. What? Coasting along at 100k?

bo-bo

essentially you should not pull out into a lane of traffic unless you can keep up to the speed with the lane of traffic. this can be seen as failing to yield or failing to stop. its not an outright right/wrong situation. however, i would generally view it as being wrong as the traffic already on the road should have right of way and the hard shoulder is not an extra lane designed for letting people get up to speed.

Mitch Connor

Dr. Loon wrote:

Eh... that's not good my friend. What? Coasting along at 100k?

i presume he means not have your foot on the accelerator or brake, allowing the car to slow naturally. If this is what he ment, is there a problem with it, and what is it? Or do you think he means something else?

I would 'coast' like this a lot on the motorway or dual carraigeway and i don't see anything wrong with it.

seamus

As has been said, it's not specifically illegal to drive on the hard shoulder, except on a motorway. It is however, not to be treated as a normal traffic lane.

With dual carraigeways in this country getting busier and busier, directly attached junctions with no slip roads should really be phased out in favour of overpasses and/or slip roads.

I don't have to do it much myself, but I wouldn't really lambast someone for using a DC hard shoulder as a slip road to merge with a constant stream of traffic. Provided that it's done with consideration for anyone who may be using the slip road (pedestrians & cyclists), and of course for the traffic in the driving lane.

In some places, if someone was to wait for a proper break in the traffic, they'd be sitting there all day. The traffic is often moving at 80-100km/h. Many cars would take 10-15 seconds to build up that speed. That would require there to be at least a 300m gap between vehicles, to ensure that they're not holding everyone up - impossible sometimes.

Although I know stopping on a motorway is allowed in emergencies (I've had to do it twice, ever), what is the position on rejoining the traffic flow? It can be necessary to stop your vehicle on the hard shoulder, but you may also be able to drive yourself out of it. For example - A few years back I had a Punto with a screwed thermostat. It overheated about 100m after I had passed the Lucan slip going southbound on the M50. So I pulled in and got out. It cooled down sufficiently about 20 minutes later for me to drive on to the Red Cow and come off. But is this covered in legislation? Do I legally have to call a tow truck to pick me up, or am I allowed by law to drive from the hard shoulder, provided I had stopped in an emergency?

daedalus2097

hobochris wrote:

First of all you are not insured to drive on the hard shoulder... (Tow trucks require extra insurance to be able to do this)..

Tow trucks need extra insurance to tow cars, not to drive on the hard shoulder.

Second it is illegal to drive on the hard shoulder regardless...

It's not illegal to drive on the hard shoulder of a normal road, I don't know where you're getting your ideas here... You can even use it when there's not an emergency in certain circumstances - e.g. to allow a faster car to pass, at your discretion and profided it is safe to do so.

part of driving is having Patience, Im guessing that this is only an issue because the people who do this dont have the Patience to slow down and wait for suitable gap to be available... instead they continue on and attempt to merge at putting other road users and themselves..

True, a lack of patience has a lot to do with the state of Irish driving at the moment, but on the other hand, have you ever tried coming out of such a junction at rush hour on a national primary route? Such breaks in traffic might not appear for hours on end...

They dont allow you to drive on the hard shoulder for a reason.For example, what if a hgv's airbrakes fail, it would have to use the hard shoulder to slowly come to a stop, meaning that any vehicles in the hard shoulder would be at risk as the hgv couldnt brake for them. It for reason like this why the rules of the road state that should you brake down you should exit yuor vehicle for the passenger door and do not attempt to re-enter until assistance arrives or if it is an emerency.

Air brakes on a HGV are fail-safe, so failure usually means the brakes lock up and the vehicle comes to a stop very quickly indeed, rather than cruising on for possibly miles. Same with train brakes. The reason you should get out of the passenger side is that you have traffic moving past your driver door at 120km/h which doesn't have a hope of stopping, brakes working or not, if you decide to get out in front of them. There's always a risk of something hitting a stationary vehicle at speed however so they don't recommend reentering the vehicle until assistance has arrived or the vehicle is driveable again.

If you're stopped on the hard shoulder you can drive along it to build up sufficient speed to safely merge with moving traffic on the main carriageway. It's all a bit vague regarding whether this applies if you're stopped at a junction trying to turn onto the main road though...

blastman

hi5 wrote:

So it is illegal. Thanks thats all I wanted to know:) .

For the record, I said it MIGHT be illegal. It depends on the circumstances. All other stupid arguments and sweeping statements have been ridiculed already, so I'll leave it at that.

hi5

Tauren wrote:

i presume he means not have your foot on the accelerator or brake, allowing the car to slow naturally. If this is what he ment, is there a problem with it, and what is it? Or do you think he means something else?

I would 'coast' like this a lot on the motorway or dual carraigeway and i don't see anything wrong with it.

Thats exactly what I meant and its often encouraged to improve fuel ecomomy,of course I dont take it out of gear and I make a point of always keeping my distance.
The cruise control even has a button which says "coast".

Hotblack Desiato

Coasting means clutch disengaged while moving and is a driving test fault.

bo-bo wrote:

this can be seen as failing to yield or failing to stop. its not an outright right/wrong situation.

Failure to obey the stop or yield sign on the minor road is always wrong.

hi5

ninja900 wrote:

Coasting means clutch disengaged while moving and is a driving test fault.


Failure to obey the stop or yield sign on the minor road is always wrong.

I'm not disputing the rules of the road or anything but when I press the coast button on the steering wheel it definetly slows down using engine braking,there is no disengagment between engine and wheels,it is an american product though(Chrysler) so interpretation of the word may be different

Hotblack Desiato

hi5 wrote:

I'm not disputing the rules of the road or anything but when I press the coast button on the steering wheel it definetly slows down using engine braking,there is no disengagment between engine and wheels,it is an american product though(Chrysler) so interpretation of the word may be different

Auto box right?