One for all ye future tournament directors

Lissavalley

Hand from cash game last night. Player A is fairly drunk. Few players limp preflop.

Flop is JJ9. Checked to Player A on button who bets 10. (Pot 15ish)

Player B checkraises the pot. Player A thinks for a while and pushes. He looks away for a while and when he looks back he sees Player B showing his cards to his friend across the table.

Player A becomes incensed as he argues that Player's B hand crossed the line and is therefore dead. Player B had said call before he showed his friend his cards but Player A didn't hear this.

Also Player A isn't fully all in yet but has about 50euro remaining behind. Player B has him covered.

Ruling!!?

eoghan104

Lissavalley wrote:

Hand from cash game last night. Player A is fairly drunk. Few players limp preflop.

Flop is JJ9. Checked to Player A on button who bets 10. (Pot 15ish)

Player B checkraises the pot. Player A thinks for a while and pushes. He looks away for a while and when he looks back he sees Player B showing his cards to his friend across the table.

Player A becomes incensed as he argues that Player's B hand crossed the line and is therefore dead. Player B had said call before he showed his friend his cards but Player A didn't hear this.

Also Player A isn't fully all in yet but has about 50euro remaining behind

Ruling!!?

If he said call and then showed his friend his cards I cant see why there is a problem. He will have to show them to the table though after the hand.

bops

kick the drunk guy out after the hand which i hope he looses

kakak1

bops wrote:

kick the drunk guy out after the hand which i hope he looses

couldn't agree more, shouldn't be allowed play in the first place

myflipflops

What's the house rule on showing somebody else your hand? There's still action to take place in the hand so player B is very much in the wrong to show his hand. Player A hasn't really done anything wrong (unless his reaction was inappropriate) and i wouldn't be happy to see someone showing their hand to a friend. Either Player B's hand is declared dead or Player A is allowed to check down the pot if he so wishes.



Edit: It's not a huge deal if he was just showing somebody behind him. My understanding was that he was showing other players at the tabe his hand.

Tar.Aldarion

Is it not down to interpretation of the rules as to whether the hand is dead/has to be called down or not? He said call before showing, I wouldn't mind imo.


What do you mean his hand crossed the 'line'?

Lissavalley

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

What do you mean his hand crossed the 'line'?

His hand went over the line (all cards that are in play should be behind it) when he passed his hand to his friend.

phantom_lord

Lissavalley wrote:

His hand went over the line (all cards that are in play should be behind it) when he passed his hand to his friend.

the thing is tho, that your cards aren't mucked when they cross the line, you can throw in your cards and retrieve them as long as they don't hit the board, mucked cards, or someone else's.

Primewise

Yeah, your cards aren't mucked until they touch the dirt. If they are exposed before you call, thats a different story.

If the dealer heard the guy say call, then there is no issue. Both hands are then live and the dealer should deal Turn/River and decide the winner.

If nobody heard the guy say call... then by showing his cards he should be forced to fold. Nobody should be allowed show their cards until the betting is over!

Lissavalley

phantom_lord wrote:

the thing is tho, that your cards aren't mucked when they cross the line, you can throw in your cards and retrieve them as long as they don't hit the board, mucked cards, or someone else's.

They didnt go near muck. BTW I'm not either player in case some of ye are wondering. Folded my 73o pf

Tar.Aldarion

Yeah, it's the table he took them off to show a friend? At the back?
If it wasn't in the muck it is fine, he called, he didn't muck. I show my cards to poeple a lot if they are not playing and want to see, as long as they don't help the player, I don't see the problem.

The worst penalty I could see here would be Player A allowed to check down the pot, but I think that is harsh.

5starpool

Not really a problem here. Player A thought he was all in, Player B covered and said call, then showed his cards to a friend. Straightforward enough.

As far as I am concerned, Player A should be told he is not all in, has money behind, and that betting continues. He cannot see player B's cards unless he already has of course. Tell them to calm down, deal the turn and let action happen.

Also, tell Player A not to be a dick about trying to get players hands declared dead.