Pope in Brazil

redtom

From today's Irish Independent:

"OUTRAGED Indian leaders in Brazil said yesterday they were offended by Pope Benedict's "arrogant and disrespectful" comments that the Catholic Church had purified them and a revival of their religions would be a backward step.

In a speech to Latin American and Caribbean bishops at the end of a visit to Brazil, the Pope said the Church had not imposed itself on the indigenous peoples of the Americas.

They had welcomed the arrival of European priests at the time of the conquest as they were "silently longing" for Christianity, he said.

Millions of tribal Indians are believed to have died as a result of European colonization, which was backed by the Church, after Columbus landed in the Americas in 1492. "It's arrogant and disrespectful to consider our cultural heritage secondary to theirs," said Jecinaldo Satere Mawe, chief coordinator of the Amazon Indian group Coiab."


You wish, Mr. Benedict, you wish...

Dades

I suppose the Incas welcomed Francis Pizzaro baptising Atahualpa their Sun King before garrotting him on the steps of the temple, and making off with tons of gold and silver.

Europeans got gold and the potato, and the indigenous people got smallpox and Christianity. I think I know who got the better deal.

The Pope really is a baffoon, sometimes.

Sapien

redtom wrote:

They had welcomed the arrival of European priests at the time of the conquest as they were "silently longing" for Christianity, he said.

Oh, I love it.

This reminds me of the latest opus by Australia's beloved auteur, Mel Gibson, and its take on the decline of the Mayan civlilisation. One very much got the sense that the protagonist and his wholesome, forest-dwelling folk were just waiting for a white man in a dress to come along and tell them whow to be good Catholics.

It also made it quite clear that the native peoples of South America were themselves responsible for the disease that wiped out their majority - by way of their barbarous habit of littering their city streets with the festering corpses of their sacrificial victims. Subtle and thought-provoking, I'd say.

skeptic griggsy

:cool: Yes, he is! One of his buffooneries is to canonize saints. As all miracles are natural, he makes saints- demi-gods- out of mere mortals.Hasn't he heard of remissions and false diagnoses and such? His experts do not do a thorough search anyway.:eek:

lostexpectation

redtom wrote:

From today's Irish Independent:

"OUTRAGED Indian leaders in Brazil said yesterday they were offended by Pope Benedict's "arrogant and disrespectful" comments that the Catholic Church had purified them and a revival of their religions would be a backward step.

In a speech to Latin American and Caribbean bishops at the end of a visit to Brazil, the Pope said the Church had not imposed itself on the indigenous peoples of the Americas.

They had welcomed the arrival of European priests at the time of the conquest as they were "silently longing" for Christianity, he said.

Millions of tribal Indians are believed to have died as a result of European colonization, which was backed by the Church, after Columbus landed in the Americas in 1492. "It's arrogant and disrespectful to consider our cultural heritage secondary to theirs," said Jecinaldo Satere Mawe, chief coordinator of the Amazon Indian group Coiab."


You wish, Mr. Benedict, you wish...

truely disgusting

Asiaprod

The Atheist wrote:

The Pope really is a baffoon, sometimes.

You are being more polite than I can be about the man. Turkey, now Latin America, I think he would be better of staying at home. He is no match to his predecessor.

Sapien

Asiaprod wrote:

You are being more polite than I can be about the man. Turkey, now Latin America, I think he would be better of staying at home. He is no match to his predecessor.

That depends on one's perspective. I'm sure he's appealing to an element within the Church that had felt a little short-changed by Ioannes Paulus II, and he appeals to me as a more honest and forthright representative of Roman Catholic philosophy. (Mental note: invent, disseminate and establish the word "phobosophy".)

I remember when the papal elections were underway, I wished to the empty heavens that Ratzinger would be given the throne. My belief was that, as Pontiff, his uncomprimising interpretation of the faith would accelerate the diminution of his Church in the West. He's trying his best, Gor' bless'im.

liamdubh

There was a good discussion on this in the Christianity forum. I'm glad to see that almost everybody agrees that the Pope's comments were off-the-wall. The man really is disconnected from reality.

Asiaprod

Sapien wrote:

I remember when the papal elections were underway, I wished to the empty heavens that Ratzinger would be given the throne. My belief was that, as Pontiff, his uncomprimising interpretation of the faith would accelerate the diminution of his Church in the West. He's trying his best, Gor' bless'im.

*Tips hat/smiles* I always knew he would win

PDN

Sapien wrote:

I remember when the papal elections were underway, I wished to the empty heavens that Ratzinger would be given the throne. My belief was that, as Pontiff, his uncomprimising interpretation of the faith would accelerate the diminution of his Church in the West. He's trying his best, Gor' bless'im.

Actually I prayed for the same thing for the same reasons.

I was concerned that one of the papal candidates was a guitar playing Cardinal from Brazil who happens to be a friend of Bono. His election would have made the Catholic Church trendy and so masked the true nature of the institution.

I wonder which was the more effective - my prayers or your wish to the empty heavens.

I also have a theory that the Catholic Church deliberately picked an elderly man with health problems to be their next leader. They got such good PR mileage out of the last Pope's funeral that they wanted to have another one as soon as possible.

UU

Actually, as we're on the topic of the Pope's visit to Brazil, I was reading that he has made some other hurtful comments there.

Firstly, in Brazil there is a big political debate over whether abortion should be legalised and the Pope decides to stick his nose in politics as usual and said that he'd excommunicate any ministers who vote for abortion to be legalised - I think he threatened the Mexican ministers with that also.

Then secondly, he made some more anti-Protestant remarks because there has been a significant drop in the amount of Brazilian Catholics. Many have converted to smaller protestant Evangelical churches because they're obviously sick of the Catholic Church. The Pope called these smaller churches 'cult groups' which they probably are and I don't disagree with him but it'd be a bit more realistic of him to admit that his church is the biggest 'cult group' in the world before he picks on others.

I think he also made his usual ranting remarks against gays, lesbians, etc. I think he's just jealous because we have more fun and parties than he has had. That's the thing that always fascinates about strict religious people; they never have a sense of humour and some craic! They live in a constant fear of some entity who will rain thunder bolts down on them at any minute (and no, I'm not still talking about Zeus! )

liamdubh

With regard to the excommunications the Pope threatened, I thought you had to be a rank of Bishop or higher to be excommunicated these days? I thought lay people were exempt.

Only 150,000 turned out for a Mass that 1,000,000 were expected to attend. Very poor and disappointing turnout, if you're a Catholic.

UU

liamdubh wrote:

With regard to the excommunications the Pope threatened, I thought you had to be a rank of Bishop or higher to be excommunicated these days? I thought lay people were exempt.

Only 150,000 turned out for a Mass that 1,000,000 were expected to attend. Very poor and disappointing turnout, if you're a Catholic.

Perhaps you're right regarding excommunication although in regard to the way the Catholic Church frequently changes its rules and beliefs these days, nothing suprises in the least.

Yes I heard only a mere 150,000 people turned out, it's so funny! It might be because a lot of Catholics aren't very fond of the current pope though. But would you honestly expect the turnout to be very high if the Pope decided to make a visit here in Ireland? The numbers would probabaly be fück all compared to the popularity the last pope acheived in winning the hearts of millions. Then again, this pope is a right Nazi (*cough*)

a.Rochey

Wow, this guy can't go anywhere without anoying someone can he?

So, the native Americans really wanted something they didn't know existed?
Were they 'secretly hoping' to catch smallpox as well?

Tim Robbins

PDN wrote:

Actually I prayed for the same thing for the same reasons.

I was concerned that one of the papal candidates was a guitar playing Cardinal from Brazil who happens to be a friend of Bono. His election would have made the Catholic Church trendy and so masked the true nature of the institution.

I wonder which was the more effective - my prayers or your wish to the empty heavens.

I also have a theory that the Catholic Church deliberately picked an elderly man with health problems to be their next leader. They got such good PR mileage out of the last Pope's funeral that they wanted to have another one as soon as possible.

You sound like you're jealous your not part of the one true Christian Church;)

PDN

Asiaprod wrote:

You are being more polite than I can be about the man. Turkey, now Latin America, I think he would be better of staying at home. He is no match to his predecessor.

I found this interesting as, this weekend, I spent some time with a couple of (non-Catholic) missionaries to Turkey. They said that the Pope's visit to Turkey was a big PR triumph. Most Turkish Muslims, in their experience, got really enthusiastic over the visit. This may, of course, be connected with the current wave of support for secularism in Turkey & the revulsion the majority of Muslims feel over the recent incident where 3 Turkish Christians had their throats slit by extremists.

Myksyk

Apologies in advance mods ... but "silently longing for Christianity"? ... you just have to have your head literally rooted up your arse to come out with this sh1te!!

EDIT: PS I just noticed I was on post 666 b4 I wrote that one. LOL.

rockbeer

I suppose if you insist on electing the head of the inquisition as the new pope you should realistically expect trouble :rolleyes: