Rip off pub tourney

imeatingchips

I was at a tournamant in a pub recently (can I say where and when?). It was a €65 freezeout. Organiser told me at registration that it was €50 for the prize pool, €10 for the organiser and €5 towards the prizepool of a Christmas tourney.

There was about 55 people there. Come the final table, organiser announces prizes:

1st €700
2nd €300
3rd €200
4th - 8th between €75 and €150 (cannot remeber exactly)
9th €50

Which adds up to about €1700 - €1800. So the house made about €1400-€1500 but paid out only €1800 (at best!) WTF??

Were we robbed or am I missing something??

I played one other pub game last year and was so disgusted by what the house took I never went back. Then again, they didn't advertise what was going into the prize pool so I couldn't really complain (except with my feet of course).

Is this the par for the course with pub tournaments?? How could any poker player be turning a profit when the house fee is so big?? I didn't notice it myself til I thought about going home but why did no one else twig it - and a lot of these people seem to be regulars. I don't get it

edit: actually, this post probably belongs in consumer issues?!

Flushdraw

If you have the facts right here, then you were definitely ripped off. If they openly say they are taking €10 themselves and €50 for the prizepool then they must stick to that. I'd get in touch and ask them for a breakdown of the payout and what they took for themselves. If they admit to taking money from the prizepool, i'd name and shame.

LuckyLloyd

imeatingchips wrote:

I was at a tournamant in a pub recently (can I say where and when?). It was a €65 freezeout. Organiser told me at registration that it was €50 for the prize pool, €10 for the organiser and €5 towards the prizepool of a Christmas tourney.

There was about 55 people there. Come the final table, organiser announces prizes:

1st €700
2nd €300
3rd €200
4th - 8th between €75 and €150 (cannot remeber exactly)
9th €50

Which adds up to about €1700 - €1800. So the house made about €1400-€1500 but paid out only €1800 (at best!) WTF??

Were we robbed or am I missing something??

I played one other pub game last year and was so disgusted by what the house took I never went back. Then again, they didn't advertise what was going into the prize pool so I couldn't really complain (except with my feet of course).

Is this the par for the course with pub tournaments?? How could any poker player be turning a profit when the house fee is so big?? I didn't notice it myself til I thought about going home but why did no one else twig it - and a lot of these people seem to be regulars. I don't get it

edit: actually, this post probably belongs in consumer issues?!

It is very important that you get your facts straight before you criticise a tournament. It does seem that you may have been ripped off but, as I will point out below, the fact that you are hazy on a couple of details makes it difficult to be sure that you were robbed.

- €65 entry. Of which it was clearly noted to you that only €50 was going into the prize pool. You admit this was clearly stated.

- You say “about 55 people”. This creates a problem for us; as if you have a margin for error of 10 people it will swing the prize pool by €500 one way or the other.

- If there were 55 people the prize pool paid out should have been 50 x 55 = €2750

- You have confirmed the payouts for 1st – 3rd and 9th place. Those confirmed numbers total €1250.

- That means that, assuming your entrants total is correct, there was €1500 that should have been paid out to the runners that finished 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th. You reckon the numbers went something along the lines of 75 – 150. It would be better if you were sure. However, I would assume 75, 100, 125, 150.

- Therefore €450 got paid out on top of the confirmed €1250 = €1700 total. Indicating that you may have been shorted by the organisers to the tune of €1050.


This would be a very serious issue. When you paid your entry, you paid fees or a rake of 30% (€50 + €15). This is madness to begin with from a serious poker perspective. The best tournament players in the country would struggle to be in profit from the game if they paid a €30% charge on top of their tournament entry fees.

Secondly, for your increased rake, you are going to be playing a tournament in a makeshift environment that is not designed for playing poker in and, because of the pressure of licensing laws, the game will have to be accelerated to finish by a certain time which gives you the punter less value for the money that you are spending.

Please note that, in my experience, pub players don’t really think too hard about the maths of the whole thing. If they are happy to play in a pub on a regular basis, they probably don’t take the game seriously at all. As such, the propensity to fleece them would exist.

I would suggest that you should name the organising company that ran the tournament – and the date and venue. The company concerned may have a presence on this board and be able to provide you with a direct response. Also, you will be alerting players to be on the lookout if they intend to play one of the games organised by the particul;ar company. However, bear in mind that if you cannot be sure of the exact numbers – your claims can easily be denied or disproved. I would suggest that you get into the habit of popping up to the organiser of a tournament at the first break to ask how many entrants there were. This can help you calculate the chip average at the later stages (which is important for your play) and will also allow you to be sure if and when you are getting ripped off.

Finally, the Fitzwilliam card club runs an excellent €50 + €5 reg tournament on a Tuesday night. And three Thursdays of the month the Sporting Emporium also runs a €50 + 5 tournament. Both (but in particular the Fitz) give a very generous structure with plenty of chips and play. You get dealers and a comfortable environment.

Hope the above is helpful (I have no idea why I bothered tbh).

imeatingchips

LuckyLloyd wrote:

...
Hope the above is helpful (I have no idea why I bothered tbh).

Thanks - I'm glad you did cos it is helpful (long time reader of yer posts mr loyd - learned a lot from them!).

You've summed up exactly what I was thinking plus a bit more. I was going to ring up and run amok but you're right when I haven't got the exact figures right myself I'll probably not come out of it any better.

Unfortunately, games in town aren't an option for me.

I'll not name n shame them for the time being. I'll go again and take careful note of the headcount.

Thanks for the replies - much appreciated.

ps and if he is on the take I'll corner him quietly and ask to be paid off

LuckyLloyd

imeatingchips wrote:

Thanks - I'm glad you did cos it is helpful (long time reader of yer posts mr loyd - learned a lot from them!).

Ok sir. Thank you for the compliment. Good luck.

5starpool

Next time you are at a pub tournament and the prizepool is being announced, ask how many entries and rebuys if applicable there were.

carfax

5starpool wrote:

Next time you are at a pub tournament and the prizepool is being announced, ask how many entries and rebuys if applicable there were.

If I'm in a pub tournament I will always want to see the breakdown written down in front of me. Number of players (which can often be untrue but will have to be somewhere close to the real number), total prize-pool, percentage breakdown etc....

Obviously in the Fitz etc this is not necessary but there should always be full transparency with tournament payouts (esp. in pub tournies) as it is not the organiser's money - its the player's.

Coillte_Bhoy

We run regular weekly pub tourneys in various towns in Mayo and use poker tournament software. This can clearly display the number of runners, average stack, current prize pool etc. There is no reason why any other organisers cant do this though it never ceases to amaze me how very few pub players bother to ask how many runners, reg fee etc.

pokerscene

Hi Guys this sounds like one of my tournaments,[Island Poker] if you can tell me the venue, Rough Date and your name i will be able to post exactly how many runners, My Fee and how the final table was paid out. I am fully Transparent and have no problem in answering any of your questions.

Tony.

carfax

pokerscene wrote:

Hi Guys this sounds like one of my tournaments,[Island Poker] if you can tell me the venue, Rough Date and your name i will be able to post exactly how many runners, My Fee and how the final table was paid out. I am fully Transparent and have no problem in answering any of your questions.

Tony.

Hi Tony,

Yeah I can obviously vouch for your tournaments as being 100%, do you have a big Christmas tournie coming up?.....Is it for regulars only?

byrner1

I play in tonys games twice a week and can say he runs a great game and everything is totally above board.He has a book with a list of players and prizes available for anyone to look at .

pokerapprentice

hi i play with island poker4 nights a week and can say four my self that there games are run well and correct amount of money is being paid out.

imeatingchips

pokerscene wrote:

Hi Guys this sounds like one of my tournaments,[Island Poker] if you can tell me the venue, Rough Date and your name i will be able to post exactly how many runners, My Fee and how the final table was paid out. I am fully Transparent and have no problem in answering any of your questions.

Tony.

No it definitely wasn't island poker. I'm assuming you guys operate in dublin. Im a good bit outside the pale hence the reason why fitzwilliam, sporting emporium etc just isn't an option for me. Apologies for any confusion caused - it's obvious from all the replies you run a decent game!

As luckyloud suggested, next time I go I'm going to take a careful note of everything and go from there.

Thanks again for your replies!

Flushdraw

imeatingchips wrote:

As luckyloud suggested, next time I go I'm going to take a careful note of everything and go from there.

Thats the best one yet lol!

NickyOD

When the TD announced the prize pool at the FT did you say anything?

Goodluck2me

Where was this?who ran it?

pokerscene

carfax wrote:

Hi Tony,

Yeah I can obviously vouch for your tournaments as being 100%, do you have a big Christmas tournie coming up?.....Is it for regulars only?

Hi Stephen at all my tournies i charge €5 per player which goes towards the Christmas Grand Final est 15k. Top 3 players each month in player of the month competition auto qualify for this, 4th and 5th go into a playoff game which will be held in November for a ltd number of places left available. All players who qualify will be paid on the day with the winner picking up a nice 5k for christmas.

With regards to the poor payout imeatingmychips i think you should name and shame the organisers and let them have their say. Poker weather it be in a pub or casino should be A. run well. b. Good value for money. C No player should ever feel he is being ripped off. Thier are to many cowboys out their raking the prizepool and maybe we should start a new forum POKER GAMES TO AVOID.

byrner1

Did you win the tournie??

carfax

Flushdraw wrote:

Thats the best one yet lol!

lol.....

Ste05

I don't think the organiser should be named and shamed until the OP is more confident with his allegations. A bad reputation started here can be hard to shake. While there are some absolute cowboys out there, there are also some organisers who are open and honest and might not even know this forum exists and as such won't be able to defend themselves and could be adversly affected by baseless allegations here.

So personally I would prefer if the OP continues with his current stance and gathers more facts before naming and shaming.