When BMW motors go bad - advice needed

MojoMaker

Nasty situation - my '97 523i was just in with Maxwell Motors having a small (or so I thought) overheating problem diagnosed and the end result of the testing process is a cracked engine block - quoting €4900 + VAT + labour to fit new engine unit

Car is only worth €6k tops so the repair would outvalue the car :mad:

Question to you guys: That's the official party line from BMW, anyone got any creative solutions that could patch up the problem without requiring a new block? As luck would have it I was getting what I thought was a water pump replaced in order to trade on for my new car. This has thrown an obvious spanner in the works as right now it's untradeable. I don't want to spend 7k fitting it out :eek:

Car has 118k mileage but it had the original engine replaced under warranty (Nikasil issue) in 2000 at 60k miles so the current engine only has 58k on the clock - or so the service book states.

Desperate bad luck or do I have a light at the end of the tunnel maybe? Or failing that and it's a disposal situation I'm looking at, does anyone know a good path to go down to claw back some of the inherent value of the car as rolling stock? (The condition of the car is excellent and has all the toys - would be a disgrace to scrap it).

Worried in Dublin.

Glanza V

A cracked block is a cracked block. There is no way of repairing it. the only option is to replace it. Your best bet is to try and pick up an engine from a crashed BMW. But its going to cost alot. Lets say you buy the engine for 1k (cant see that happining though), its going to cost another 1 - 2 from a garage to fit it nless you are handy at engines yourself.

But in honesty, a new engine is needed.

BarryM3

Source a second hand engine and swap it over...

Cost for swapping the engine wont be that dear, it should be easily possible to do in a single day especially if the donor engine comes with all the ancillaries (alternator, water pump etc)

You can't fix a cracked block though, well at least not properly!!

Glanza V

Anther option is to break the car for parts or sell it as is for very litte money

maidhc

Garage the car, and watch out for an engine. One will turn up for handy money eventually.

TommyT

Try Ralph Jess on 04897561248, he should have an engine, if not try Border Motor Works on 04871382504.
I would hope to pick an engine up for 1000 euro, you just want something that is going to get you going until you get shot of it.

Esel

TommyT wrote:

Try Ralph Jess on 04897561248, he should have an engine, if not try Border Motor Works on 04871382504.
I would hope to pick an engine up for 1000 euro, you just want something that is going to get you going until you get shot of it.

Change that 048 prefix to 028 if calling from 26 counties - cheaper.

MojoMaker

Thanks lads. I guess I knew a replacement engine, either new or otherwise, was required. I rang around a few places and they basically said the same thing - a cracked block is a cracked block. Had it been just the head that would have been a lower cost, but touching €2k anyway.

Tommy, what's Ralph's gig, is he a breaker?

Wouldn't know where to start in Dublin for sourcing a replacement engine - but I think you're right, a swap over could be the most cost effective option. The shame about all this is that car is in showroom nick otherwise - Murphy's law I guess.

Any other tips keep 'em coming, especially keen to hear about similar stories/resolutions from other owners past/present.

TommyT

esel wrote:

Change that 048 prefix to 028 if calling from 26 counties - cheaper.

Leave the 048 prefix as it is, if you use 028 from the 26 Counties you will end up calling someone in Cork. 048 is the prefix for the 6 Counties.

TommyT

MojoMaker wrote:

Tommy, what's Ralph's gig, is he a breaker?
QUOTE]

Both those numbers are BMW breakers in the North.

Esel

TommyT wrote:

Leave the 048 prefix as it is, if you use 028 from the 26 Counties you will end up calling someone in Cork. 048 is the prefix for the 6 Counties.

Soz, my mistake then.

ciarsd

Sorry to hear of your car troubles complete pain in the arse. Have they said how it could've happened or how it came about?

Maybe fabdirect can source something? I know its quite popular with some of the BMW lads.

http://www.fabdirect.com/

kdevitt

Try Fab direct as ciarsd suggested. They'll give a guarantee on the engine, shipping is £100 from what I recall for an engine.

MojoMaker

No reason for it happening was suggested, but they did remark it was very unusual for such a young engine to have developed this problem (58k mls).

I have my suspicions that the previous owner was informed this problem existed and was only going to get worse and he immediately traded it last year. The problem manifested itself from about January onwards in my hands and I went through all the usual lines of enquiry for overheating issues - replaced viscous fan coupling, thermostat & housing, water pump. I also had the crank position sensor replaced recently for another rough-running issue and was just getting enjoying life with a completely fixed engine...or so I thought. During my ownership the crack obviously got worse, to the point where the car overheats on virtually every trip.

I suppose I can't recommend enough the importance of having a prospective purchase thoroughly checked out beforehand - even to the point of bringing it to a main dealer and asking for certain tests to be run. Seems a shame to be spending the guts of 10k and have it disappear down the drain.

BostonB

I think you'd have to consider the least loss is getting the engine done independently and running the car for a couple of years.

Andrewf20

MojoMaker wrote:

Nasty situation - my '97 523i was just in with Maxwell Motors having a small (or so I thought) overheating problem diagnosed and the end result of the testing process is a cracked engine block - quoting €4900 + VAT + labour to fit new engine unit .

What are the chances of this thread appearing, baring in mind that my 323i (same M52 engine) has shown up an overheating problem today as well. When stopped, it goes into the red. This combined with a rough idle, suggests a dodgy head gasket. Im p*ssed off. It has a new engine block put in in 2001 (Nikasil issue) and new coolant, water pump and thermostat last year. I just hope I dont have a cracked cylinder hear too.

For labour, Id turn to Robert Furley (BMW specialist) just outside Kells. Very reasonable, honest and very experienced. PM me if you need his details.

MojoMaker

I wish it was just the head, but no the crack is in the cylinder liner in the actual block. Heads can be got a lot cheaper, but still a large expense to bear. Have you brought yours anywhere to have it properly checked? Maxwell's now charge €150+VAT for service work, it's gone up a fair bit since my first BMW

Edit - if your overheating only happens when stopped or when moving in very slow traffic it might be the considerably cheaper problem of a clapped out viscous fan coupling. I had mine replaced preventatively (would you look at the irony in that word alone) but of course made feck all difference cos it wasn't the problem.

Andrewf20

Thanks for that. I was just checking the fan coupling and indeed the fan is very easy to stop. I even did it from 700rpm to zero with my own fingers, once I did with with the wallet first. Also I am showing no signs of coolant leakage into the oil (Coolant & oil levels stable, no whiting of oil etc). I now reckon its this, as I have found in the past that the fan cover has jammed the fan on a few occasions likely to be causing damaging to the coupling.

I rang Robert Furley about it as well to discuss but I havent brought it anywhere yet as I only diagnosed the problem this evening. My brother has a 523i fan in his shed so I will swap that tomorrow.

Real sorry about the news with the car. But I had some bills myself over the last 2 years: New gearbox, clutch, wheel bearing, bushings, Cat (1100yoyos!), back box, rear handbrake shoes, EBC pads, 4 discs and now rear brake lines are corroding, so need to do that too. Time to leave Mondello alone methinks.

If I was you, I probably look to the local breakers for a late 1997, 1998 engine block (use realoem.com to validate part numbers to see if the engine block is suitable to fit your car. All you need is you VIN number for that website), and see if Robert will do the work. I found Kilcock quite extensive. They had a loads of engines lying around. At the time, I literally went thru the yellow pages, ringing loads of breakers and enquiring over the phone it they had the parts. Trainers up the north are apparently quite extensive as well. I rang Joe Duffy about a new gearbox - 2450euro excl labour, so I didnt do thru them. In the end, I got the gearbox in Kilcock for 300yoyos (no warranty, so risky), and Robert replaced it including a new clutch I bought in Otto for 300 euros labour.

Andrewf20

One more thing, If you do decide to start phoning breakers, remember to ask if they have E36 323i, 325i, 328i, E39 523i, 525i, 528i blocks because as far as im aware, they should be the same (bigger engines gain power from the same bore, just larger strokes). Research thru realoem.com to compare you car to others to double check Im right on this. I did this and I now have a 320i gearbox in the 323i.

Attached is a link of the engine part number details for a 523i I selected from Jan 1997 for example:
http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=DD32&mospid=47539&btnr=11_1962&hg=11&fg=05

unkel

Andrewf20 and MojoMaker, I take it that both your cars are UK imports because of the Nikasil? Those are some unreal issues and even more unreal figures to get you sorted

Post here and here as well to get more expert advice

Andrewf20

Cheers for that Unkel. If the fan coupling aint the problem, Ill be posting a few more questions. I should know by tomorrow if I get a chance to fit the different fan.

As far as Im aware, the car was in Ireland from day 1. Some of the work was preventitve maintenance (Clutch,water pump, coolant, discs, brake fluid etc). Car is old, so I was expecting a few bills!

unkel

Andrewf20 wrote:

As far as Im aware, the car was in Ireland from day 1

I think you can check that on your vehicle licensing certificate? I'd be surprised if it an originally Irish car that was always driven here

MojoMaker

Mine was a UK import alright. Brought into ireland in early 2000 and within months the engine was replaced f.o.c by Murphy & Gunn for the Nikasil problem.

The Kilcock crowd you mention Andrew, do they have a website? What's the full name of the outfit?

Andrewf20

Heres all the details I have:

Kilcock Car Dismantlers,
Laragh,
Kilcock,
Co Kildare.
(01)6285671

See more places in Ireland here:
http://www.goldenpages.ie/search/Car_Dismantlers.html
Dublin region:
http://www.goldenpages.ie/search/dublin/Car_Dismantlers.html

You'll probably find some stuff in a bad way, but you might be lucky. You wont get a warranty, so be careful. I rang alot of places, and they were able to tell me over the phone it they had the parts there, so that should save you some driving. Fingers crossed. If you do find a block, check the part number as it should be stamped into the metal somewhere on the block, and compare to you own damaged one.

MercMad

I think both of you shouldm talk to Alan Carroll of AC Cars in Dublin. He is a sound guy, an independent BMW expert, drives an E39, and you wont find a more honest and reasonable guy. he's seen it all before !

Sorry.....dont have number for him at hand !

Good luck.

ciarsd

MercMad wrote:

I think both of you shouldm talk to Alan Carroll of AC Cars in Dublin. He is a sound guy, an independent BMW expert, drives an E39, and you wont find a more honest and reasonable guy. he's seen it all before !

Sorry.....dont have number for him at hand !

Good luck.

Sound knowledgeable chap

Bloomfield Road, SCR, Dublin 8 - Phone :+353 (01) 453 1433

Borzoi

MojoMaker wrote:

Nasty situation - my '97 523i was just in with Maxwell Motors having a small (or so I thought) overheating problem diagnosed and the end result of the testing process is a cracked engine block - quoting €4900 + VAT + labour to fit new engine unit
.

Funnily enogh a former colleague of mine had a similar problem last year - newer engine though and lowish 40-50K mileage. Bought his 320 Coupe about 2 years ago, when it ws 3 years old. Serviced it in the main dealer where he'd bough it. About 18months into his ownership, they suspect the block is cracked - and want €1500 to pull the engine out to check, €5k to replace it then. He checks around, a friend is in the trade, apparently his engine is far from the first. So he digs his heals in with the dealer and BMW Irl. In the end, he gets a new engine, and the bill is split 3 ways between himself, the dealer & BMW

smash

you could bid on this... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BMW-523-I-SE-SALOON-1998-S-ONLY-74-000-MLS-LEATHER-TRIM_W0QQitemZ300109609452QQihZ020QQcategoryZ9837QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

take the engine and some more extras and break the rest for parts to get some money back.

michaelanthony

try www.partsgateway.co.uk . Its a broker for a few breakers yards and will get you a few prices including delivery in a few minutes.

Eoin

MercMad wrote:

I think both of you shouldm talk to Alan Carroll of AC Cars in Dublin. He is a sound guy, an independent BMW expert, drives an E39, and you wont find a more honest and reasonable guy. he's seen it all before !

Sorry.....dont have number for him at hand !

Good luck.

Will vouch for him also. (OT: Don't think he drives an e39 regularly though, pretty sure it's a massive audi land yacht)

www.accarsales.com

MojoMaker

Thanks lads. I've been on to FAB and they quote me a replacement engine for £795+VAT+shipping. Just waiting on a shipping quote from the UK, and there are a number of independent specialists operating around the €60ph mark for the labour involved (approx 8 hours). If I can do it for around 2500 I might take that hit. A lot better than the 7k quote from the main dealer here.

Interesting angle on the main dealer goodwill gesture though. The engine was replaced by M&G in Dublin 7 years and 58k ago so I wouldn't expect any issues with it at that mileage, plus I have replaced the water pump, thermostat & housing, viscous fan, crank position sensor, and coolant temp sensor in the last 3 months - so a lot of expense has gone into the ancilliaries around the engine bay which I could recoup by a block swap. Sad to spend a grand and have this hit me though...

Still a replacement lump should be good for quite a few years of worry-free motoring and it might be worth hanging on to it for another 18 months after in that case.

MojoMaker

steve06 wrote:

you could bid on this... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BMW-523-I-SE-SALOON-1998-S-ONLY-74-000-MLS-LEATHER-TRIM_W0QQitemZ300109609452QQihZ020QQcategoryZ9837QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

take the engine and some more extras and break the rest for parts to get some money back.

Would be better off importing that car to drive than to break. Could be landed here all in for 5k I'd imagine.

Andrewf20

Cheers guys for the contact details. I may need them after all. My fan is definetly faulty. I tried to replace it to today but I couldnt get the bloody thing off. It seems though that I also have a 2nd problem - the coolant in the overflow tank goes low (drops about 1 cup full). I topped it up today, drove it about 1km, and the level dropped again by a cupfull again! No white smoke from the exhaust, no whiting of the oil, oil level stable, no sign of major leaks (although under the rad is a little damp on the floor tray). Perhaps the initial overheating boiled off some water? I will bleed the system in a few hours & watch the water level in the overflow tank as the engine is idle & stopped until it gets up to normal temperature.

unkel

Borzoi wrote:

and the bill is split 3 ways between himself, the dealer & BMW

Fair play to him. He only paid a third of the bill while he was completely and well out of warranty. Then again, a quality car like a BMW should not have serious engine problems, even after 5 years.

MojoMaker

Andrewf20 wrote:

It seems though that I also have a 2nd problem - the coolant in the overflow tank goes low (drops about 1 cup full). I topped it up today, drove it about 1km, and the level dropped again by a cupfull again! No white smoke from the exhaust, no whiting of the oil, oil level stable, no sign of major leaks (although under the rad is a little damp on the floor tray).

Don't wish to sound like a nay-sayer but this was exactly the first symptom of the problem that turned out to be a cracked block in my car. I had persistant coolant-level fluctuations since January which I could not diagnose properly. Might be as well to book it into a main dealer and have them perform a coolant pressure test AND a cylinder compression test to be sure - it's an hour @ €150ph but peace of mind it's not something more serious facing you.

Edit - I also had no prior whiting of the oil and the oil level remained constant the whole time the block was starting to rip itself apart.

Andrewf20

Wow. Thats scary. I topped it up yesterday, then I beld the system last night by running the engine with the expansion tank cap off. After reving the engine a little the water rose from the middle of the expansion tank to the top, and then settled down to the normal value again over a period. I checked a few hours later and the level was still okay. I drove it home from work, then after 8 hours I rechecked and the level was still normal. I hope it was just an air lock that has now been bled out, but im still very nervous. Fingers crossed. Ill probably get it checked out on Monday.

MojoMaker

Mine started very very slowly - that was the reason the independent garage didn't spot the real problem. I had the system bled several times and I was getting approx 3 weeks of driving between coolant fluctuations. This window narrowed as the months went by and eventually came down to a daily occurance. Meanwhile I had spent guts of a grand replacing water pump, thermo, fan coupling, and a few other bits 'n pieces which failed to cure the problem. I had an exhaust gas test done which assured me there was no leak from the cylinder head - so you can imagine how gobsmacked I was when the real issue came to light.

Mind you mine was an extreme case and the 5-series still rates as well above average on the reliability index. So much so I think I will simply take the hit on this one and move on to the next 5 promptly. It's my 4th now and zero issues with the others.

Andrewf20

I checked the level there again, and its stable ever since I bled the system last night. The lumpy idle (like low level misfiring) is bugging me as well, although that cropped up for the 1st time when I changed the spark plugs recently. Ill probably give those Maxwell motors a call.

Ive been think the worst here myself, and compemplating what to get next if the worst comes to light. I really dont want a 1994 1.4 corolla, but limited finances limit choice.

maidhc

unkel wrote:

Fair play to him. He only paid a third of the bill while he was completely and well out of warranty. Then again, a quality car like a BMW should not have serious engine problems, even after 5 years.

The girlfriends brother got a new engine in his Focus free of charge when it was 5 years old. Main bearings failed in it, and Henry paid the cost of a new engine. The dealer went half ways on the labour.

UrbanFox

Hard lines. That is very bad luck for such a car.

OP is your insurance cover comprehensive ? If so, try making a claim for accidental damage. Insurers may argue that it is wear and tear and the usual insurance company twaddle but I reckon that you have a good argument on the accidental damage basis.

A few years ago a mate's car suffered similar damage due to a severe frost and was able to make a successful claim for accidental damage.

Worth a try.

BostonB

A friends 3yr old Porsche had the engine fail (a common failure with 996/Boxsters) and eventually Porsche covered the cost even though it was out of warranty.

DublinDilbert

Andrewf20 wrote:

Cheers guys for the contact details. I may need them after all. My fan is definetly faulty. I tried to replace it to today but I couldnt get the bloody thing off. It seems though that I also have a 2nd problem - the coolant in the overflow tank goes low (drops about 1 cup full). I topped it up today, drove it about 1km, and the level dropped again by a cupfull again! No white smoke from the exhaust, no whiting of the oil, oil level stable, no sign of major leaks (although under the rad is a little damp on the floor tray). Perhaps the initial overheating boiled off some water? I will bleed the system in a few hours & watch the water level in the overflow tank as the engine is idle & stopped until it gets up to normal temperature.

Andrew did you get it sorted??? I have one of them long 32mm viscus fan coupling spanners if you need it... remember it's a Left hand Thread, so it will loosen clockwise.... also the pulley is quite hard to hold when doing it...

I had to take a viscus fan off yesterday to replace a water pump in a M52 engine... yep plastic impeller again, it was lucky the impeller literally broke in 1/2 so once i got the pump off i was able to take the other bit out with my hand, no nasty bits of plastic floating around the cooling system...

Andrewf20

Thanks for the offer of the spanner Dublindilbert. Next week I will retry to take the fan off when I have my brothers assistance, where he can hold the wheel touching the pulley with a screwdrver and I rotate the reverse threaded nut. I was using a vicescrips, a block of wood, and a lump hammer to try and shock the nut open to no avail even with WD40. Crude, but I heard of that technique working before. If I have no luck with the brothers help in the next week, I can give you a bell, so thanks again for that. Space is rudy tight bown there between the fan and engine front.

After bleeding the system, the water level is still fine, with no drop off at all. Im planning to drop it in to Alan Carroll on Monday to do a pressure check & fumes test of the coolant.

I installed a metal impeller water pump last year and its working fine it seems. You can see coolant flow well into the expansion tank when revving the engine.

DublinDilbert

Hi Andrew,

No worries, i have it in the boot of my car from yesterday anyway....

Yea i used the "big" screw driver method yesterday... just a word of caution the pulley on the M52 engine i was working on yesterday was plastic / ceramic / composite, but not steel so go genttlely with it, i took a little knick out of it with the screw driver...

Another method, which i would probably use again would be, open up 2 of the M6 bolts on the water pump pulley slightly with a 10mm spanner, this will give your "big" screw driver something to push against...

Let me know,
d

MojoMaker

UrbanFox wrote:

Hard lines. That is very bad luck for such a car.

OP is your insurance cover comprehensive ? If so, try making a claim for accidental damage. Insurers may argue that it is wear and tear and the usual insurance company twaddle but I reckon that you have a good argument on the accidental damage basis.

A few years ago a mate's car suffered similar damage due to a severe frost and was able to make a successful claim for accidental damage.

Worth a try.

Update on this. After weighing up the various options, including selling/scrapping/trading/repairing the car I struck a deal with the crowd that sold it to me last year and am adding €3k to switch to a '98 535i Auto with 46k miles. Irish car from the off so hopefully no Nikasil issues.

The prospect of either breaking/parting the car or dealing with the logistics of high mileage replacement engines from the UK/NI and then fretting over short or non-existent warranties was less than 100% appealing. Was looking to change anyway, so hopefully luck has turned for the better.

Roll on the switch to V8 motoring