Oscar De La Hoya .v. Ronnie Coleman

O.P.H

I don't know alot about boxing but was havin this debate about how Oscar would do against Coleman. If it was a wrestling match I figure Coleman would just kill him, but if they fought by standard boxing rules and Coleman was to have a crash course in how to box, what do ya think the outcome would be. Here's a picture of Coleman if you don't know him, 6 time Mr ******* I think -

http://www.kulturistika.com/gallery/1115026845_194.jpg

RuggieBear

DLH would probably kill him.

walshb

O.P.H wrote:

If it was a wrestling match I figure Coleman would just kill him,
http://www.kulturistika.com/gallery/1115026845_194.jpg

So what is Coleman, a wrestler or a body builder?

O.P.H

Coleman is a body builder(6 times Mr Univers or somethin like that), Ruggiebear, you think De La Hoya would kill him, wow thats interesting, did'nt think for an 11 stone guy he would pack such a punch.

RuggieBear

he's a trained fighter versus someone who works out in a gym. imo it wouldn't even be a contest

henryb

de la hoya to win....... inside the first 5 seconds!!!

Sangre

How much mobility do you think Coleman has? I think DLH would hockey him. Coleman could have a glass jaw for all we know.

Big Ears

De La Hoya would stop him in a round .

Ian Napa would probably stop the guy in a round .

cowzerp

De La Hoya 1st round without a doubt, imagine how easy he would be for any boxer to hit nevermind oscar!! this is like saying, who would win a lion or a big cow. the cow is big dont forget!!

O.P.H

Jaysus, I did'nt think he'd do that, Coleman can run the 100 in just over 12 and he's a cop so he would be tough but I just figured the shear size and strength of the guy would count for somethin, look at this, here he is lifting 200 lbs in each arm, thats like 2 heavy men in each arm, his friend helpin him, who is also big, has to phsyc himself up just to give him the weight -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3_ihsoYL34

BrianD3

cowzerp wrote:

this is like saying, who would win a lion or a big cow. the cow is big dont forget!!

Ah, but Coleman and DLH are the same species, whereas a lion and a cow are in no way comparable. One is a large wild predator armed with claws and teeth, the other is larger but is a (normally) docile herbivore and farm animal.

A fairer analogy might be:
Kodiak bear vs Grizzly bear
Elephant vs the largest, most temperamental Beef bull you can find
Lion vs Cougar
Gorilla vs Chimpanzee
etc.

At some point, mass and strength will surely start to become the most important factor in a fight no matter what rules the fight is played by. Eg if a Lion riddled with arthritis takes on a healthy Cougar 1/3 the weight, who wins? Surely it is still the Lion. Although who knows. I think the same applies to Coleman vs DLH it will never ever happen and would be grotesque if it did.

dlofnep

why not put him against someone his own weight?

O.P.H

because I know what the outcome there would be, a world champion boxer againist a bodybuilder of the same weight would be no contest plus you never get serious bodybuilders at 11 stone

King.Penguin

BrianD3 wrote:

Ah, but Coleman and DLH are the same species, whereas a lion and a cow are in no way comparable. One is a large wild predator armed with claws and teeth, the other is larger but is a (normally) docile herbivore and farm animal.

A fairer analogy might be:
1.Kodiak bear vs Grizzly bear
2.Elephant vs the largest, most temperamental Beef bull you can find
3.Lion vs Cougar
4.Gorilla vs Chimpanzee
etc.

At some point, mass and strength will surely start to become the most important factor in a fight no matter what rules the fight is played by. Eg if a Lion riddled with arthritis takes on a healthy Cougar 1/3 the weight, who wins? Surely it is still the Lion. Although who knows. I think the same applies to Coleman vs DLH it will never ever happen and would be grotesque if it did.

Well I don't know why exactly you went off on this animal tangent. If you wanted a better analogy for describing the fight between coleman and mayweather in (non-human) animal terms you could simply have used the domestic dog. I think a suitably analogy would be St. Bernard versus a Staffordshire Bull Terrier, large but generally nonaggressive animal, versus a small, aggressive and bred to fight dog.

Your first animal fight would be difficult to call, as two males of these two subspecies would be similar in size with the kodiak probably slight larger.

The second is ridiculous as the elephant would destroy any bull you can find.

Male lion versus male cougar will only have one winner every time.

Gorilla versus Chimpanzee is an interesting one. Although you'd obviously give a SERIOUS size and strength advantage to the silverback male, you would have to credit the Chimpanzee with the extra intelligence (therefore cunning). Chimpanzee is a omnivore so does hunt and kill prey where as the Gorilla (of any species) are largely plant eaters. However, the Gorilla does have equally large canine teeth.

Very much a silly tangent.

BrianD3

King.Penguin wrote:

Well I don't know why exactly you went off on this animal tangent. If you wanted a better analogy for describing the fight between coleman and mayweather in (non-human) animal terms you could simply have used the domestic dog. I think a suitably analogy would be St. Bernard versus a Staffordshire Bull Terrier, large but generally nonaggressive animal, versus a small, aggressive and bred to fight dog.

But who says Coleman isn't aggressive? He can make a conscious decision to fight and be aggressive. He mightn't be a very skilled fighter but aggression doesn't have to be trained or bred into him. And he was not born with any significant adaptations which make him more or less suitable for fighting than DLH. So that's why I didn't use the dog analogy.

Now if Coleman was a different "breed" to DLH then the dog analogy is better.

It's a bit simpler with theroetical fights between somewhat comparable wild animals. Cougar and lion fight, it's life or death, neither is doing it for sport, neither has been bred to fight in order to provide entertainment. The Cougar may fight as aggressively as he can but he's still probably going to get torn apart no matter what.

I know it is a silly tangent but it's just to illustrate that size can be a factor in a fight. And cowzerp was the first one to bring Cows and Lions into this

O.P.H

Ye're all NUTS but I have to say the animal tangent makes for an interesting read.

OK, I can buy that DLH would beat Coleman in a standard boxing fight but there are 2 other points I'd like for the boxing experts to clear up for me -

1: If they both had to stand still and let the other take ONE full force punch at their face, what would the outcome be for both do you think?

2: If it was just a no rules brawl, like UFC, who would win. IMO it would have to be Coleman, he could just run at DLH and wrestle him to the ground, right?

BrianD3

Remember when Paulo Vidoz fought Nicolai Valuev? A 6 foot 4 fighter weighing about 230? pounds vs an approx 7 footer weighing 320 pounds. From what I remember Vidoz stated he thought Valuev was impossible to knock out and that he'd damaged his hands punching him.

Now of course Valuev did eventually lose his title to a smaller man but would he ever have won the title in the first place were it not for his size. General opinion on Valuev is that he is a very limited fighter.

Ronnie Coleman is much shorter than Valuev but weighs nearly as much and is much stronger. Oscar de La Hoya is about half Coleman's weight. The weight difference between Coleman and DLH is significantly more than the weight difference between Valuev and Vidoz.

Assuming that Coleman will be a much more limited fighter even than Valuev will this increased weight difference be a significant factor.

Running Bing

O.P.H wrote:

Jaysus, I did'nt think he'd do that, Coleman can run the 100 in just over 12 and he's a cop so he would be tough but I just figured the shear size and strength of the guy would count for somethin, look at this, here he is lifting 200 lbs in each arm, thats like 2 heavy men in each arm, his friend helpin him, who is also big, has to phsyc himself up just to give him the weight -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3_ihsoYL34

That fella doesnt look like he could walk 100 without taking a break never mind running it in 12 seconds. He looks to be in terrible shape.


Doesnt matter how big you are if you get a full force punch in the face from ODLH you will know about it. He wouldnt even be able to get close to dlh.

Bernard Hopkins

LOL,....... what a topic !!! spiderman vs mighty mouse.

in reality,...... oscar would probably make him look stupid for 12 rounds,... but not have a hope of K.O'ing him.

remember the downfall of the "Beast from the East" ...... who was a trained world champ boxer. he came up against a guy half his weight half his size, but better at boxing : here he is entring the ring

Big Ears

Being huge doesn't automatically give you a good chin , for all we know Coleman has a chin made of delicate china . Even if he did have a chin of iron Hoya would get him on body punches or cuts .

In a proper boxing match Coleman wouldn't be able to hit De La Hoya(not even once) but would be constantly tagged , so if he could keep taking the punches he would eventually get cut , bruised and messed up .

As far as them standing still and letting the other guy hit them , we've no idea if Coleman can punch or not because bulging muscles don't always guarantee explosive power . I would put my money on De La Hoya in that situation too .

cowzerp

some of the biggest guys have terrible chins-bruno was terrible for example,
a chin is a chin no matter how big you are, the main difference is that heavyweights are used to being hit by heavyweights, coleman is not used to being hit by anyone, de la hoya would definetly punch far harder than coleman, speed and technique and making the most of what weight he has, coleman would throw a big arm punch, that would not land anyway..:D

megadodge

I can't believe I'm actually replying to such an ignorant thread.

Rather than try to explain I'll put it this way - Could Coleman hit a golfball farther than Tiger Woods ? I'm sure he miraculously has perfect technique, timing and accuracy simply because he has big muscles and anyway Tiger weighs half what he does !!!

BIG MUSCLES HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH PUNCH POWER !!!!!!!

And don't get me started on all the other various boxing skills that take a lifetime for even the exceptional to learn.

That man would barely last a minute with DLH. FACT !!!

O.P.H

Ok mate, calm down, we're all friends here . I already stated I knew nothing about boxing, no need to to post the 'cliche pissed off reply'. And I think it's a fair question because a huge guy would have a better chance of bluffing his way through boxing than bluffing his way through golf. That 7 foot giant seems to be an example of someone who lets his size do alot for him.

Sangre

megadodge wrote:

BIG MUSCLES HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH PUNCH POWER !!!!!!!

Whats the point in weight classes then?

Big Ears

O.P.H wrote:

Ok mate, calm down, we're all friends here . I already stated I knew nothing about boxing, no need to to post the 'cliche pissed off reply'. And I think it's a fair question because a huge guy would have a better chance of bluffing his way through boxing than bluffing his way through golf. That 7 foot giant seems to be an example of someone who lets his size do alot for him.

Valuev is much more talented than people give him credit for and he has suprisingly quick hands . Yes his physical nature is a big advantage for him but if he wasn't as skilled and as quick(for his large frame) as he is then he wouldn't have gotten anywhere .

Sangre the idea of weight classes is to seperate fighters based on natural weight differences . Adding loads of muscle will baloon up your weight but it won't improve you as a fighter . You will only be able to hit harder if you can maintain the speed at which you punched before and this can only be done to a certain extent before a fighter slows himself down from the extra mass .

There's a big difference between natural mass and bulked up mass .

BrianD3

Actually, Coleman could well hit a golfball farther than Tiger Woods...now if Coleman has never played golf before then he's not going to do it first time. But after a bit of coaching he might. Whereas a weaker individual probably won't.

Of course it'd take Coleman years to develop any consistency and he'd still be a million miles away from being a good golfer, let alone a pro golfer

Re: Valuev, didn't this guy only take up boxing in his early twenties. Far later than most (all?) other world champions. If he was a more "normal " sized individual would he have gotten anywhere in pro boxing.

If De la Hoya has such an easy time fighting Coleman then maybe he needs a still bigger opponent. Andre Roussimoff? 7 foot plus and 500 pounds of wrestler fights DLH according to boxing rules. I know he's dead but its' all fantasy anyway

O.P.H

Once the fight is by normal boxing rules it seems the trained boxer will always come out tops, but if it was a no rules fight Coleman and Andre the Giant would have to win, would'nt they?

Big Ears

BrianD3 wrote:

.
Re: Valuev, didn't this guy only take up boxing in his early twenties. Far later than most (all?) other world champions. If he was a more "normal " sized individual would he have gotten anywhere in pro boxing.

Valuev turned pro shortly after his 20th birthday , I believe he had some(albeit limited) amateur experience aswell .

Most heavyweights wouldn't turn pro till 23/24 .