valve amps and modelling effects

fourmations

hi all

i am in the market for a practice amp
and was looking at the little valve 5watters
(Epi valve junior and Fender champion)

valve amps seem a purist favourite
is my gt6 likely to defeat the purpose of having a valve amp
(with the ampsims and all that) messing with the purer sound,

i notice valve amp users seem to prefer stomp boxes
but i have really got into the versatlitly of the gt-6
and am not in a hurry to spend wads on a stomp box collection,

will the valve amp still sound better than a solid state
or will the gt-6 cancel out the "valve" sound,
obviously valve amps are dearer and harder to maintain
so i wont get one if it aint worth it

rgds

4

Voodu Child

The point of small simple valve amps like the Epi is to get a good simple tone for recording, they arent great 'all-purpose' amps. I don't believe it has an effects loop, so you're GT6 won't the best with it when it comes to delay, reverb, chorus etc.

Most guys using amps like these record dry and add those things at mixdown.

Johnny Storm

Also, the EVJ is pretty loud for a practice amp.

Voodu Child

Johnny Storm wrote:

Also, the EVJ is pretty loud for a practice amp.

That's another good point.

A 5watt valve amp can get 50% as loud as a 50watt valve amp (everything else being equal). That's seriously loud.

The EVJ has a pretty simple preamp stage, so the idea behind the amp is to get lots of nice power-valve distortion going. That means cranking the amp to get it sounding great, and that's going to be pretty loud.

You could use the GT6 with amp models etc in front of the EVJ and leave the vol on the Epi quiet low, but I think that gets back to your original question - I don't really see the point in doing this. You may as well run the GT6 into any amp.

I use an attenuator with all my valve amps when i want to keep the volume down and still have the power-stage going at full tilt, but I can justify the cost because it's spread over a few amps. I don't see the point in buying one for something cheap like the Epi. And even having said that, im quiet happy to use a Microcube most of the time for really quiet stuff.

fourmations

hi all

thanks for the feedback..

voodoo,
couldnt i work it the opposite way?
crank the amp and turn down the master output level on the gt6?
then i could get the cranked tube sound and not wake the neighbours?
would that work?

I'm not obsessed with getting a valve amp necessarily
but I hear so many people delighted with the EPi or the fender champion,

it is for home use only, i never gig, and do a rehearsal room
once a year with the old band for a laugh.

i was going to get one of those little vox DA-5's
that have the output selector thingy (0.5w, 1.5w or the 5w)
but them read salivating reviews about the epi,

rgds

4

Voodu Child

fourmations wrote:

hi all

thanks for the feedback..

voodoo,
couldnt i work it the opposite way?
crank the amp and turn down the master output level on the gt6?
then i could get the cranked tube sound and not wake the neighbours?
would that work?

I'm not obsessed with getting a valve amp necessarily
but I hear so many people delighted with the EPi or the fender champion,

it is for home use only, i never gig, and do a rehearsal room
once a year with the old band for a laugh.

i was going to get one of those little vox DA-5's
that have the output selector thingy (0.5w, 1.5w or the 5w)
but them read sliavting reviews about the epi,

rgds

4

The thing is that practice amp means different things to different people. And 'loud' also means different things, depending on whether you're in an apartment, basement, have kids asleep etc.

Leaving the output on the GT6 really low in the hope of cranking the power section just won't work practically. Amps don't work that way.

The best thing you can do is try one out and get a feel for just how loud they are. It really does surprise people who have never used small valve amps before, just how loud they can get. Like I said above, youre talking 50% as loud as a 50 watt head. That's half as loud as the typical amp lots of guys gig with, and most of those guys don't even have their amps turned all the way up. You're talking LOUD

I wouldnt pay any attention to switchable power levels on the DA - most of those amps sound as good at whisper quiet leves as they do up full.

feylya

If you're going to be running the GT-6 through the amp constantly and not plugging straight into the amp with your guitar, think about getting a full range amp like a keyboard amp. That way you'll get all the goodness of the GT-6 the way it's supposed to sound.

The_g-man

If you're going to be running the GT-6 through the amp constantly and not plugging straight into the amp with your guitar, think about getting a full range amp like a keyboard amp. That way you'll get all the goodness of the GT-6 the way it's supposed to sound.

Would there be a specific keyboard amp out there that would be less prone to feedback anyone here has tried?

fourmations

thanks feyla

thats interesting, I always thought it sounded great
through some decent PC speakers I put straight into the headphone jack,
thats probably the full range syndrome idea?

would this be as good a solution for home jamming
or maybe some studio monitors,
i only want to spend 200 or so

rgds

4

feylya

Yup, PC Speakers should have a larger range than guitar amp speakers. You could run the gt-6 through your pc but then you'd be limited if you ever wanted to go to the studio/rehearsals

fourmations

cheers, couldn't I just pop it into the PA then?
and still have the fuller range qualities?

this has got me thinking!
it begs the question..why arent all guitar amps full range?
you could just adjust it with the onboard eq's!!

the g-man mentions feedbacks, is this a problem with fullrange?
my new axe is cool for controlled feedbacking!


rgds

4

feylya

Guitar speakers are voiced to make the guitar amp sound better.

Voodu Child

fourmations wrote:

it begs the question..why arent all guitar amps full range?
you could just adjust it with the onboard eq's!!

It's partly tradition. Sticking a 12" speaker was the simplest thing to do back in the day - it was well suited to the frequencies electric guitars produced, moved tonnes of air, just did a great job basically. That's what we've evolved with & gotten used to, and it's what most amp circuits have been designed around. We don't use full range speakers because we don't need them to get the sound most guys go for.

Amp modellers are a little more complicated because you've got to consider the end result. Most people are used to listening to their favourite guitar records on little hi-fi speakers (or headphones) and not big 12" monsters. You could possible come up with a similar analogy with PA systems and gigs.

So.....different methods can end up with the same end result. But a keyboard amp won't shake your nuts like a good old 4x12:D

Karl Hungus

One thing you could look into is one of the Atomic amps. Seems like it would suit you, seeing as you appear to be really into your GT-6, using it with an Atomic amp is adding a valve power section and speaker to the overall rig. It would probably give it more of a feel like a 'real' amp.

I've not used one myself, but I have heard a lot of good feedback about them.

I use a Pod XT Live myself, and while running it through computer speakers, or headphones is great, I think it really does sound at it's best when running through my ENGL. Something about the oomph and substance that it provides. As Voodoo said, nut-shaking.

Hope that helps.

Johnny Storm

If you play a guitar clean into a full range amp it sounds like a sick saxophone. It's the kind of sound that could put you off playing the guitar for life.

The Boarder Man

Only way you can be sure is to try the GT6 with the amp in question. If you're looking for a small practice amp have a go at one of the Cube/Microcube yokes. They're set up beside the GT8 in Musicmaker (or used to be at least) which will give you an idea. Plus the 15 and 30 (not the 60 for some reason, don't know about the Micro) have an Aux In which might work well the GT6.

Good luck.

TelePaul

Just get a small solid state, pref w/effects loop. You wont really get the perceived benefits of a valve amp if you're gonna use digital modelling in front of it.

It wasn't me!

Johnny Storm wrote:

If you play a guitar clean into a full range amp it sounds like a sick saxophone. It's the kind of sound that could put you off playing the guitar for life.

That gave me a good laugh.