Go down with a sinking ship?

LegacyUser

I'll try to keep this short. I'm in a similar position to the other poster wondering whether or not to pursue someone who mightn't be interested.

I met one of the most amazing people I know a few years ago. I won't go into it, but I don't know anyone that I respect more than her. Every time I'm with her she does a little something to amaze me.

Naturally we're very very close. Best friends. When we're out together drinking, we often end up together, and when we do it's unbelievable how natural it is.

We've had a chat about it a few times and she's explained that she's confused and is unsure what she wants - but it's not me.

I guess I've always been fine with this, but I probably always held a flame in there somewhere.

...so the last time we were with each other, she told me she loved me.
I guess on the back of that I let the flame grow. I spoke to her about it. I asked her if she meant it. She told me she did - but as a friend.

I can't help thinking there's hope, but I at the same time - how do you carry on? We're in our late twenties, so I'm old enough to know precious this thing we have is, but I'm also aware I don't need to be wasting my own time - which she'd tell me I am.

I also know you'll scream "get the hell away from her" which I probably should do, but I can't. I can't help myself. Am I a hopeless romantic, or just a lost cause???

Wibbs

Lostcause wrote:

I met one of the most amazing people I know a few years ago. I won't go into it, but I don't know anyone that I respect more than her. Every time I'm with her she does a little something to amaze me.

Naturally we're very very close. Best friends.

So far so good and hopelessly sweet(and I'm not taking the píss here)

When we're out together drinking, we often end up together, and when we do it's unbelievable how natural it is.

Does the drink have much to do with it in your opinion?

We've had a chat about it a few times and she's explained that she's confused and is unsure what she wants - but it's not me.

I'm afraid you have to listen to her. She wouldn't be confused if it was you she wanted. Certainly not after this length of time. In any case someone that easily confused should be avoided.

I guess I've always been fine with this, but I probably always held a flame in there somewhere.

Naturally. From the description of your feelings you're in love with this person.

...so the last time we were with each other, she told me she loved me.
I guess on the back of that I let the flame grow. I spoke to her about it. I asked her if she meant it. She told me she did - but as a friend.

Listen again. She's not your friend. At least not a friend considerate of your feelings for her. She knows you want more, yet she will not give you that as she doesn't feel the same. Worse she uses you as a comfort for her when she's lonely or in need of sex/affection. She uses you because effectively she doesn't want to be alone with herself. Not a good personality trait and not one conducive to a good relationship. Now does that describe friendship to you? I suspect you'll think "but....". The fact is and I also suspect you know it, that this woman is highly unlikely to commit to you.

I can't help thinking there's hope, but I at the same time - how do you carry on? We're in our late twenties, so I'm old enough to know precious this thing we have is, but I'm also aware I don't need to be wasting my own time - which she'd tell me I am.

Again listen to her. I guarantee that some day she'll meet some guy and her "confusion" will disappear. She will then try to hang to you initially "as a friend" until she's sure of her feelings for the guy. Then you'll be slowly phased out. I won't lose money placing this bet.

I also know you'll scream "get the hell away from her" which I probably should do, but I can't. I can't help myself. Am I a hopeless romantic, or just a lost cause???

Neither I would say. You're simply someone who has invested their emotions in someone incapable or unwilling to return them. We've all done it. Realise it's not your fault you fell in love with her. Realise that instead it's her that doesn't see how great a person you are. Realise that when you're back to the real you free of this emotionally destructive relationship, there are women out there that would be only too happy to reciprocate your affections. Non "confused" women. The only thing you should knock yourself for is staying around in something not good for you. You can fix that though.

You need to get your emotional life back. First thing you do is explain your position and then agree(insist on your part) to break all contact with her for one month. No phone, no calling around, no texts e-mails etc. This is to help you try to move on. You can do it. It will be difficult, but you will move on. Try new things. Get fit. Join a club that holds some interest for you. All that kind of thing. When you expand your horizons, you will tend to find that your expectations of what you deserve in life also expand.

Now, the chances are very high that she will try to contact you as you've just pulled away her security blanket, but it's for your own good. Be polite, but don't fall for it. The only circumstance where you can even think of re-establishing contact is if she says she wants to try the girlfriend/boyfriend thing. That said if she does(and she well might) I still think someone who has selfishly used you like this is not someone that deserves your affection. I suspect with distance from her you will come to this conclusion as well. A conclusion you already know to be true in the back of your mind.

I wish you luck.

LegacyUser

'

Wibbs wrote:

Does the drink have much to do with it in your opinion?

Not at all. Although, it's impossible for me to say no to her when I've had a few.

She wouldn't be confused if it was you she wanted.

This is what I've often taught, but then I've had relationships that have grown from "friends". I suppose experience has taught me to persist subtly.

In any case someone that easily confused should be avoided.

True, but we feel how we feel.

She's not your friend. At least not a friend considerate of your feelings for her.

I'll try not to defend her too much as it's pointless - evidently I've convinced myself she's not wrong, otherwise this wouldn't be an issue. However I genuinely feel drink gets the better of her, so I do forgive her, and in every other respect she a true, genuine friend. We all have our flaws, and this is why I find it imposable to walk away. How good a friend am I to walk away? (she does need a friend, there are other issues I don't want to go into - but I suppose who doesn't?)

The fact is and I also suspect you know it

This is true

I guarantee that some day she'll meet some guy and her "confusion" will disappear.

This is my greatest fear to be honest. I know it may happen, and I know it'll kill me. You are right. (However I also know it'd be the jolt I'd need to move on. I wouldn't be able to hang in there as a mate. I'm honest enough to know I'd intentionally drift into the background)

You're simply someone who has invested their emotions in someone incapable or unwilling to return them. We've all done it. Realise it's not your fault you fell in love with her.

This is what's killing me: I go out and meet people like anyone else, but after 1/2/4 dates I've no interest. For the last 6 years I've only met one person that makes me feel like this...

there are women out there that would be only too happy to reciprocate your affections. Non "confused" women.

...but I don't fall for them

You need to get your emotional life back.

agreed.

First thing you do is explain your position and then agree(insist on your part) to break all contact with her for one month. No phone, no calling around, no texts e-mails etc. This is to help you try to move on.

I don't think a month will do it. And I don't know if i can have that conversation with her - but I'll give it a shot.

It will be difficult, but you will move on. Try new things. Get fit. Join a club that holds some interest for you.

...it'll be grand, unless she calls me up saying...

she says she wants to try the girlfriend/boyfriend thing.

Then I'm fubarred'

StormWarrior

OP:Lostcause wrote:

' However I also know it'd be the jolt I'd need to move on. I wouldn't be able to hang in there as a mate. I'm honest enough to know I'd intentionally drift into the background

Then it sounds like you aren't really into her as a mate, you just fancy her. In which case she is probably better off without you anyway.

LegacyUser

'

StormWarrior wrote:

Then it sounds like you aren't really into her as a mate, you just fancy her. In which case she is probably better off without you anyway.

Yes, either that or I'm aware of the pain it'll cause me and I'm a realist. Re-read my op please.'

Wibbs

OP:Lostcause wrote:

' Not at all. Although, it's impossible for me to say no to her when I've had a few.

If you can muster up the wherewithall to say no when sober, then it is an issue I would have said.

This is what I've often taught, but then I've had relationships that have grown from "friends". I suppose experience has taught me to persist subtly.

It can happen. It's a good way to start a relationship and sadly it's the rarer way. The thing is you have gone beyond the friends stage, yet nothing is coming from it.

True, but we feel how we feel.

Yes and no. We may feel different things for different people, but if we don't have enough respect for them or ourselves we often act out selfish behaviour. Feelings can lead to actions. In the end we chose these actions. We can also choose not to act out on them. To suggest otherwise is an excuse for dodgy behaviour. You shouldn't have to defend somone for making you feel torn. It's her choice to act on these feelings.

In her case it seems confusion can be translated as "don't know what I want, but I know I don't want him, but I also don't want to be alone". Not good for you and in the end you should only be concerned about what's good for you. This is not a selfish idea either. Quite the opposite. If you're ok with yourself you will act differently with her. In fact you could turn out to be a better friend to her than the way you are now.

However I genuinely feel drink gets the better of her, so I do forgive her,

Yet your first line above reckons it's not the drink? Anyway forgiving her is not just saying it's OK. It's also being mindful of not letting her and you make the same mistakes over and over. That is unhealthy.

and in every other respect she a true, genuine friend.

Then deal with the good parts and avoid the bad.

We all have our flaws,

Ooooh yea.:D

How good a friend am I to walk away? (she does need a friend, there are other issues I don't want to go into - but I suppose who doesn't?)

Forget for a moment being a friend for her. Be a friend to yourself first. This crap is really bugging you. How can you be a friend to someone whose actions bug you. Maybe, just maybe the best way for you to be a friend to her is to walk away. At least walk away from the notion of being her lover. She needs to work out this stuff herself. If her issues are more than that she needs to see someone. You are not her shrink.

This is my greatest fear to be honest.

Rightfully.

I know it may happen, and I know it'll kill me.

It will happen, not may. It's just a question of time. 90% sure of that.

(However I also know it'd be the jolt I'd need to move on. I wouldn't be able to hang in there as a mate. I'm honest enough to know I'd intentionally drift into the background)

How very noble of you. I'm not trying to take the píss here, but sod that. You and she deserve better than you walking off into the sunset, a broken hero. That only plays in Hollywood.

The only jolt you need to move on, is the sure realisation that you need to move on, sooner rather than later.

This is what's killing me: I go out and meet people like anyone else, but after 1/2/4 dates I've no interest. For the last 6 years I've only met one person that makes me feel like this...

...but I don't fall for them

If you needed a jolt this is another one. You are unhealthily attached to someone who is unhealthily attached to you. When you move on and it is very doable, then you will be open to the possiblities of other people. You will be a better friend to her.

I don't think a month will do it. And I don't know if i can have that conversation with her - but I'll give it a shot.

Then two months. At this stage take it one day at a time. If you can't have that conversation with her it's another sign that the friendship you're holding on to may not be what it seems.

...it'll be grand, unless she calls me up saying...
Then I'm fubarred'

No offence, but grow a pair. I'm serious. She may wail and cry, but she will respect you for it in the longterm.

StormWarrior wrote:

Then it sounds like you aren't really into her as a mate, you just fancy her. In which case she is probably better off without you anyway.

Where do you get that from?If he just fancied her, I doubt his head would be this wrecked. I do agree with your latter sentence though.

Kell

OP:Lostcause wrote:

How good a friend am I to walk away? (she does need a friend, there are other issues I don't want to go into - but I suppose who doesn't?)

Fúck that. OP- do yourself a favour and FORGET the fact that she is your mate. She is not. She is using you for male attention, romance and all else besides and giving nothing back to you in return. NOTHING.

When you have a fúck buddy, everyone knows where the shots are coming from and if someone chooses to get all romantic and fuzzy, then thats their tough.

This girl is using you for the whole lot AND allows you to be all romantic and fuzzy, using the fact that she gets drunk as an excuse to shág you to keep you on the end of a string. And you call her a mate? A friend?? A great friend at that??? Jeebus. Just how come you cant see this??

I know its tough. Had it happen to me. WALK AWAY. Delete her number and cease contact. You'll be fine within about 2 months. Yes, she will tug at the heart strings everytime you see her, but you'll be better off without.

On the flip side <and no I really dont believe this> when you quit the contact, she could just figure how much she loves you and fling herself into your open arms and... well thats just bleurghhh.....

K-

Wibbs

Kell wrote:

Fúck that. OP- do yourself a favour and FORGET the fact that she is your mate. She is not. She is using you for male attention, romance and all else besides and giving nothing back to you in return. NOTHING.

When you have a fúck buddy, everyone knows where the shots are coming from and if someone chooses to get all romantic and fuzzy, then thats their tough.

This girl is using you for the whole lot AND allows you to be all romantic and fuzzy, using the fact that she gets drunk as an excuse to shág you to keep you on the end of a string. And you call her a mate? A friend?? A great friend at that??? Jeebus. Just how come you cant see this??

I know its tough. Had it happen to me. WALK AWAY. Delete her number and cease contact. You'll be fine within about 2 months. Yes, she will tug at the heart strings everytime you see her, but you'll be better off without.

As I reckon, but without my rambling prose.:D

On the flip side <and no I really dont believe this> when you quit the contact, she could just figure how much she loves you and fling herself into your open arms and... well thats just bleurghhh....

.Agreed and if she did do that I would walk away and tell her you're confused and need time. Ceasing contact is the way to go.

K-

Kell

Wibbs wrote:

As I reckon, but without my rambling prose.:D

I had got so flowery there I nearly lost myself.

K-

Sorry, just who do you think you are signing on behalf of my recently deceased quodroped best mate? The nerve of some people.

K-

CathyMoran

I was one of the people who was persued while not being interested and ended up marrying the guy but I think that this case is different. With us I was unsure. She has clearly said that she is not interested in you so I would give up. If you want you could stay friends with her but I imagine that would be too difficult for you. Sorry that you are in such a painful situation.

Wibbs

CathyMoran wrote:

I was one of the people who was persued while not being interested and ended up marrying the guy

As a matter of interest and pardon me if I'm being intrusive, but what made the difference in your case? All too often I've seen people walk away from potentially good relationships(done it myself and regretted it somewhat) and it would be interesting to see what made the difference for you pair.

but I think that this case is different.

I think so too.

With us I was unsure.

Not you. No way. You of all people were "confused". Nooooooo

She has clearly said that she is not interested in you so I would give up.

Exactly. More than that she's stringing him along for her own comfort. Niiiiiiice.

If you want you could stay friends with her but I imagine that would be too difficult for you.

I reckon so too. He could be friends with her only if she's friends with him and her behaviour suggests otherwise frankly.

Zulu

CathyMoran wrote:

With us I was unsure.

I'm sorry but i fail to see the difference.

She has clearly said that she is not interested in you...

Well not exactly. Sorry I could be clearer,
Any time the topic was broached, she closes up. There's never quite a clear cut: I'm not interested - it's more "I don't know/I don't understand myself/I'm confused", and when finally backed into it, it's not very convincing. I guess this is why/how I've managed to get to this point. If it was a clear - not in this life time, or at least something convincing it'd be cool.

That being said, I recognise what Wibbs and Kell are saying, I just can't find it in myself to believe she's doing this intentionally. She's a very close fiend also, I see how she treats people (another character trait I admire) and if I take a step back I don't see the blame on her side. I can't blame someone else for how I feel, that's something I'm responsible for.

The communications embargo has started, but I'm going to opt for a phasing out, I don't want to make a big issue out of this.

Kell

Lostcause wrote:

I can't blame someone else for how I feel, that's something I'm responsible for.

No, no you cant. But at the same time you cant be blamed for the way you feel either.

TBH (and I know its difficult to see the bad in others you are blindsided by) you are being led up the garden path, but just when you get to the kitchen, she closes the door.

K-

Brown_Eyed_Girl

Has she gone out with anyone else during this time ?

SarahSassy

Maybe I am just naive (and /or simple minded) but I dont think the girl would keep sleeping with you regularily if she had no real interest.... I know, I know, its 2007 and we are supposed to think and feel like men and be able to be sexual predators but for a lot of us, to be honest, we are just not able and the heart tends to kick in if we are sleeping with someone... I think she knows you are into her and she obviously likes and fancies you but I dont know why she is not sure. Are you a bit too intense for her? Are you both young yet and she is scared of what she may see as a long term relationship?

I guess you should stay 'close' to her, give it a definitive time scale in your head e.g. 4 months, by which time something concrete has to happen and if it doesnt then move on.....

Zulu

Brown_Eyed_Girl wrote:

Has she gone out with anyone else during this time ?

Nope.

SarahSassy wrote:

Maybe I am just naive (and /or simple minded) but I dont think the girl would keep sleeping with you regularily if she had no real interest....

That was something I was thinking myself.

Are you a bit too intense for her? Are you both young yet and she is scared of what she may see as a long term relationship?

Well I can't really prove it, but I would be described as laid back. Intense is about as far from me as you could get! As far as relationships go, I've only every suggested we should try it out, so I don't feel thats the problem.

I guess you should stay 'close' to her, give it a definitive time scale in your head e.g. 4 months, by which time something concrete has to happen and if it doesnt then move on.....

I hear you, the problem is how do you move on from a friend? I certainaly don't want to loose her as a friend. It's an awkard one. I'm resigned to the fact that it's not going to happen...

ELLIEJ

I dont think, for your sanity that you have a choice. You could stop sleeping with her and see if your feelings calm down. It may also mean that she will start to want you back as her lover and decide to persue you....

There are not many ways this can go though:

a. You and she get together and live happily ever after.
b. You stay with her as you are now til she meets someone else.
c. You try to woo her and give yourself a few months to do this and then give up (if nothing happens) and move on.....

Its up to you.

Wibbs

SarahSassy wrote:

Maybe I am just naive (and /or simple minded) but I dont think the girl would keep sleeping with you regularily if she had no real interest....

I agree somewhat with you and I think you are right that many women are not like many men in this respect, but I do know women who go for "comfort" sex when they're between boyfriends. More common than I would have thought originally.

I guess you should stay 'close' to her, give it a definitive time scale in your head e.g. 4 months, by which time something concrete has to happen and if it doesnt then move on.....

Hard one to do though and very easy to slip back into the current situation. Very easy. I think a 2 month complete break is a better answer. That way both of them can try to make up their minds without the constant reinforcement of habit.

Lostcause wrote:

I hear you, the problem is how do you move on from a friend? I certainaly don't want to loose her as a friend. It's an awkard one. I'm resigned to the fact that it's not going to happen...

I hate to be the bearer of sad tidings, but the fact is it's very very difficult, if not impossible to be a friend to a person you are in love with. It's an unequal relationship that only lines you both up for more hurt. Especially you. While you're in this you are not going to be open to the possibility of letting another into your life. Another who may be better for you. This is precisely why you don't find love elsewhere.

My paltry advice? You have to walk away. The only way you are going to get yourself back(and possibly her) is to let her and your attachment to her go. When you do that and become a better you, an independent you, you will find that women will find that very attractive. When you realise that you don't need someone only want someone in your life, you and your relationships will get better.

LegacyUser

SarahSassy wrote:

Maybe I am just naive (and /or simple minded) but I dont think the girl would keep sleeping with you regularily if she had no real interest....

I guess you should stay 'close' to her, give it a definitive time scale in your head e.g. 4 months, by which time something concrete has to happen and if it doesnt then move on.....

I agree with SarahSassy... actually (for what my opinion's worth) it sounds to me like she has a serious fear of intimacy. I can't see her sleeping with you regularly if she had not real interest either - and you mentioned that she hasn't had another boyfriend recently? So it's not friendship or sex that are problems - just both together in a relationship... I'm assuming there's real chemistry between you both btw, but it does sound like there's something. What's her relationship history like?
And if so - then it's something she will have to want to conquer herself. I'd talk to her and suggest something along those lines very gently and subtley... Even if things mightn't work out between the two of you, it might start her asking questions of herself. And her response might help you to move on and/or realise that the problem is her and nothing to do with you at all.

Best of luck

Zulu

Wibbs wrote:

When you do that and become a better you, an independent you, you will find that women will find that very attractive. When you realise that you don't need someone only want someone in your life, you and your relationships will get better.

I find that I don't have too much of a problem meeting other people. From the start I've been aware of the situation. We've always been honest with each other, so I made a point of trying to block feelings for growing. ...but then she mentioned she loved me.
Since this has been going on (as I said a while), I've dated other people.The trouble is I just haven't found another girl like her. (...and I don't think I was comparing them to her... ...well not on a personal basis, but I guess I did look for the same chemistry)
I don't think I'll fall for someone unless I know them for a while, and I know them well. I don't see how you can have feelings for someone, unless you know them

route66 wrote:

I agree with SarahSassy... actually (for what my opinion's worth) it sounds to me like she has a serious fear of intimacy.

She maintains this isn't an issue, but I think it might be.

and you mentioned that she hasn't had another boyfriend recently?

Not for a number of years. She is very attractive, and quite flirty (particularly when drunk), so she attracts men. (That sounds a little bad as she doesn't sleep around.)

I'm assuming there's real chemistry between you both btw, but it does sound like there's something.

It's unbelievable.

What's her relationship history like?

I feel this is where the problem might lie. It's not good. In fact it's pretty awful. She was attacked by a boyfriend some years ago. He was pretty controlling and did some bad things.:(

And if so - then it's something she will have to want to conquer herself.

I know, but I'm there for her. I was the first person she opened up to about it, and she trusts me and talks to me about it. I try to help.

Wibbs

Lostcause wrote:

I find that I don't have too much of a problem meeting other people. From the start I've been aware of the situation. We've always been honest with each other, so I made a point of trying to block feelings for growing. ...but then she mentioned she loved me.
Since this has been going on (as I said a while), I've dated other people.The trouble is I just haven't found another girl like her. (...and I don't think I was comparing them to her... ...well not on a personal basis, but I guess I did look for the same chemistry)

My point is you won't find anyone else even if they're right under your nose precisely because she is the one you have decided to love. If she moved to Australia with no chance of coming back, you would hurt for a while, but when youfinally let go as you be forced to do, you would meet other peoplel

I don't think I'll fall for someone unless I know them for a while, and I know them well. I don't see how you can have feelings for someone, unless you know them

I would be similar, but TBH it's not a great way to find someone. It's better to get out there and meet as many people as possible and hopefully find someone good for you, without all this intrigue. In the end I honestly think that if she really wanted you, she would be with you. When she does meet the "one" for her I guarantee she will jump into it so fast your head will spin.

I know, but I'm there for her. I was the first person she opened up to about it, and she trusts me and talks to me about it. I try to help.

The best thing you can do for her is to be a friend. A proper friend, not someone who sleeps with her and carries a torch for her. She knows you do and it's possible that she may feel that you only listen because of that. If you take that out of the equation she may feel even better towards you as you're not in the needy bracket.

Zulu

Wibbs wrote:

...as you're not in the needy bracket.

I didn't realise I'd fallen into that bracket

Wibbs

Well that's just my reading of it, but it feels that way TBH. You're at her beck and call when she needs you, you will sleep with her when she needs that too. You do "everything" for her, you have told her you want something more like a boyfriend/girlfriend and yet.... She doesn't want to be with you except on her terms. It seems to be a very one sided relationship and she's holding all the cards. Admit it, if she rang you this minute to rush over to her place, you would go in a heartbeat. That's fine with a girlfriend, but she isn't.

Trust me when a woman says she's "confused", what she usually means is that she isn't confused at all, she knows what she wants and it isn't you at the time, but she doesn't want to lose you as a comfortable safety net(note not friend*) and she keeps her options open by stringing you along, until she meets someone she won't be "confused" about at all.




*You don't treat your friends that way.

ELLIEJ

Lostcause wrote:

I feel this is where the problem might lie. It's not good. In fact it's pretty awful. She was attacked by a boyfriend some years ago. He was pretty controlling and did some bad things.:(

Ah ha, it all makes sense now. She doesnt trust her own mind / decision making process cos he has damaged this skill for her. In this case you may need to be the more dominant / strong / steady partner. Be there for her and tell her you know why she is having problems making a decision and you are staying put til she knows what she wants.

Brown_Eyed_Girl

Personally for what its worth I think this girl just doesnt know what she wants, she knows that she wants you as a friend but isnt sure about any more.

I think that you have 2 options here and the choice has to be yours, firstly you can sit her down and tell her that you just want to be friends, that you will always be there for her but as a friend only AND STICK TO THAT

Or secondly you can walk away if she really cares about you she will come running and if she doesnt the lack of contact will clear your head and hopefully leave you free to meet someone else that you cant do in this situation. It will be hard but you will get there.

I am sure that you would only want to be with someone who wants to be with you so what is the point in your current situation, and no matter what you cant go back to just being friends with someone when you have made love. Personally I think she will come running

Zulu

ELLIEJ wrote:

Be there for her and tell her you know why she is having problems making a decision

I'm not that confident thats the problem. I'm sure its part of it but...

and you are staying put til she knows what she wants.

but as wibbs has said, what if it's someone else. Do I wait around for that? ...in the minute chance I may have?

Brown_eyed_girl wrote:

I am sure that you would only want to be with someone who wants to be with you

naturally

no matter what you cant go back to just being friends with someone when you have made love.

you can't? was it love or sex?

Personally I think she will come running

I wish i had your optimism.