Tell me how badly did I play this live NLH hand

Flipper

I was so pissed off over this hand tonight - hence why I came home.

1/2 NLH 10 handed in the Macau. Villain has €300 and I cover. I know him to weak/loose and not have much mass on chips. Players have been limping a lot but have shown a lot of pre-flop folding to a raise.

3 players limp and I'm on the button with QhJd. I raise to €11 (first mistake?) and the villain is the only caller.

Flop (€29): 7h2hJh

He leads into it for €30. I call.

Turn (€89): 5d

He bets €50 and I call. (should I push here? I'm positive he'll call with either the lone Kh or Ah)

River (€189) Th

He moves all in for €175. Is this ever a call?

EDIT: Just realised how bad my english is in the title

ianmc38

I'd fold the turn. Preflop and flop are fine. Turn and river are both marginal. If you think you're ahead on the turn, ship it in.

earthworms

i think you played the hand fine all the way tbh.
River has to be a fold tho. maybe ship turn, but i think call is cool too

Shortstack

Never played live in the Macau but from exp in other live games:

Preflop raise is too small with limpers for the hand you have, limp along, raise more or fold.

I would raise postflop unless he is known to not bet without a made flush. Get it in if necessary.

earthworms

i dont really mind the small raise pre flop. Its a nice hand to build a pot with, plus if he's re raised he hasnt invested too much in the pot and can let it go

Flushdraw

Flipper wrote:

EDIT: Just realised how bad my english is in the title

LOL well you are from Cork!

I dont think there is much wrong with your preflop raise as you know that a couple of limpers will fold. Its not a bad flop for your hand and your flop play is ok

If you think he will call a push on the turn with the bare Ah or Kh then i d defo push because he's only about 25% to win the hand so a call would be wrong on his part.

Personally, i'd put him on a small made flush and the river killed his hand so he tilt pushed. I see this a lot in games so i'd probably call. A set of 2s is also a possibility

Shortstack

earthworms wrote:

i dont really mind the small raise pre flop. Its a nice hand to build a pot with, plus if he's re raised he hasnt invested too much in the pot and can let it go

There is nothing nice about this hand to reraise an amount that will not lose anyone in the pot.

You either want to be HU in position or in as cheap as possible, the button means nothing much in a 5 way bloated pot.

Flipper

Ya as most of you said, I was hoping just calling the flop would reveal a bit more about his hand and that he might shut down an AhXx type of hand but he kept firing. I kinda convinced myself that he flopped a bad flush actually but looking back on it, that thought process was all wrong.

Does everyone push the turn so?

Shortstack

Flipper wrote:

Ya as most of you said, I was hoping just calling the flop would reveal a bit more about his hand and that he might shut down an AhXx type of hand but he kept firing. I kinda convinced myself that he flopped a bad flush actually but looking back on it, that thought process was all wrong.

Does everyone push the turn so?

You should not have a decision on the turn.

Marq

I like preflop, though I might raise more.
Flop is ok. I think I prefer calling to raising.
I don't mind the call on the turn either. A lot of people are saying push if you think you're ahead and fold if you think you're behind, but that's not necessarily the best way to play the hand. Your opponent has played quite aggressively up to now, and may bet again on a blank river. If you think you're ahead now then you'll probably think you're ahead on a river brick, and might extract another bet from a hand that wouldn't have called a turn raise. There's no real need to "protect" your hand: if he's on a flush draw you're odds on to win, especially with a heart in your hand. This is the more dangerous way to play the hand if you think you're ahead, but I think it probably extracts more in the long run - esp as you have position and if he checks on the end you have options.

Having said all that this is really marginal. There are quite a few opponents who I would fold the turn to, and some that I would raise. It's a tough enough spot because you could be drawing dead on the turn, but that's what marginal decisions are all about. Considering that when you are ahead you are probably only slightly ahead, and when you're behind you're probably miles behind, a turn fold is probably the safest play.

As played I would fold the river against most opponents. I'd call against players who are capable of three-barrel bluffs on scary boards.

BigCityBanker

Flipper wrote:

Is this ever a call?

never.

Flushdraw

BigCityBanker wrote:

never.

Why?

BigCityBanker

Flushdraw wrote:

Why not?

I should have said without a sick read i think its never a call.

Given the action what do we think villian has lead both flop and turn with? I dont think a weak player has the intestinal fortitude to lead two streets and push river on this board unless they have something worth doing it with.

Do we ever expect villian to push 9h or worse on the river?

I think the only thing we are beating is a flopped flush with low sc's or similar where upon the river the villian pushes despite the 4th heart falling - a bad player will sometimes push river with this type of hand because thats the plan they formulated on the flop and have failed to adapt to the texture of the board on later streets.

In short I dont think were ahead here often enough to make this a profitable call.

Flushdraw

BigCityBanker wrote:

I should have said without a sick read i think its never a call.

Given the action what do we think villian has lead both flop and turn with? I dont think a weak player has the intestinal fortitude to lead two streets and push river on this board unless they have something worth doing it with.

Do we ever expect villian to push 9h or worse on the river?

I think the only thing we are beating is a flopped flush with low sc's or similar where upon the river the villian pushes despite the 4th heart falling - a bad player will sometimes push river with this type of hand because thats the plan they formulated on the flop and have failed to adapt to the texture of the board on later streets.

In short I dont think were ahead here often enough to make this a profitable call.

Cheers Noel

Just as a matter of interest. If you were Flipper and you have played the flop and turn as he did, and the villain checked the river into you, what would you do with your Qh flushdraw?

Hectorjelly

I think the hand is fine, the river is marginal and is really a read type decision.

BigCityBanker

Flushdraw wrote:

Cheers Noel

Just as a matter of interest. If you were Flipper and you have played the flop and turn as he did, and the villain checked the river into you, what would you do with your Qh flushdraw?

Personally id have checked behind if I got to the river having played the streets the same as Flipper has played them - I think our hand only has showdown value and I dont expect any villian to call a bet with 9h or worse and we might as well be bluffing as betting the Qh here.

Im not really good for saying how id have played the earlier streets in this hand, I think I reraise the turn and close down if called. If Flipper thinks he will get called by the lone Ah or Kh then I think Pushing the turn is the correct move - villian will have made a mistake and got his money in bad. I much prefer this to calling turn and calling his river push as I believe villain has turned it 360 and forced us to make the mistake in the hand.

Maybe id look at this different tomorrow with a clearer head.

Marq

betting the river turns your hand into a bluff.

Hectorjelly

If the guy checks the river we should probably bet. Assuming he wont check the Ah, the only hand that check calls us is the Kh, and he will probably call an all in with most other hearts

Marq

considering he has bet every street and we have flat called, do you really think that if he checks the river he's calling a bet with anything less than A/K of hearts?

I think Flipper's hand looks like a flush draw/pair and a flush draw.
EDIT/ More I think about this the more I think villian had KhJx or AhJx

Hectorjelly

Marq wrote:

considering he has bet every street and we have flat called, do you really think that if he checks the river he's calling a bet with anything less than A/K of hearts?

I think Flipper's hand looks like a flush draw/pair and a flush draw.
EDIT/ More I think about this the more I think villian had KhJx or AhJx

Yes I do. It doesnt really matter what you think flippers hand looks like, this guy is clearly a bad player. Bad players dont fold flushes. Importantly there is only 1 card in the deck that will check call us and we lose, the KH, but there are loads of other hearts for him to call us with.

Marq

other than flipper saying he's pretty loose/weak I don't think there's much that makes this guy look so awful that he calls us with a nine high flush here when the action has to suggest to even the dullest amadán that he's beat.
But this is all hypothetical anyway. the guy led the river and flipper called and lost!

Flipper

Marq wrote:

the guy led the river and flipper called and lost!

how the hell did you know that?!! :eek:

Hectorjelly

Marq wrote:

other than flipper saying he's pretty loose/weak I don't think there's much that makes this guy look so awful that he calls us with a nine high flush here when the action has to suggest to even the dullest amadán that he's beat.
But this is all hypothetical anyway. the guy led the river and flipper called and lost!

In my experience very few live cash game players are getting away from a highish flush there, and when he checks its very hard for him to have a hand that beats us.

Flipper

Hectorjelly wrote:

In my experience very few live cash game players are getting away from a highish flush there, and when he checks its very hard for him to have a hand that beats us.

agreed