Dunshaughlin Bus Lane

tristangkc

Hey Everyone,

Got pulled over in the bus lane coming into Dunshaughlin the other week by a garda. Said that outside bus hours that the bus lane is a hard shoulder. As far as I know, outside bus hours everyone is free to drive in the bus lane. Anybody know what the final word is on this.

T

r0nn13

Think he is right, as i see all the large slow trucks avoiding bus lanes out of hours...

_Kaiser_

There was a squad car camped out on the Navan side this morning too around half 8 with a tripod camera. He had a truck pulled in - presumably for speeding.

As far as the out of hours operation, I brought this up a while back and I don't think it was conclusive. Certainly no buslane I've seen operates like what the OP was told. The signage isn't exactly clear either.. from what I recall (must have another look) one side says "hard shoulder reduced" and the other says "hard shoulder ends"

mackerski

tristangkc wrote:

Hey Everyone,

Got pulled over in the bus lane coming into Dunshaughlin the other week by a garda. Said that outside bus hours that the bus lane is a hard shoulder. As far as I know, outside bus hours everyone is free to drive in the bus lane. Anybody know what the final word is on this.

T

I call BS. A hard shoulder is defined by markings actually present on the road. Not markings that used to be on the road - that would be a sneaky trick on folks not familiar with the road. A marked out with-flow bus lane is reserved for buses during its hours of operation and free for all use outside. As the left-most lane, it use is mandatory for outside bus lane hours under the keep left rule. The only way to have a bus lane unavailable to cars out of peak hours (i.e. to behave like a hard shoulder) is to declare it a 24-hour bus lane.

Unless anyone can show me a law that states otherwise, of course.

Ham'nd'egger

Certainly on the Dublin side, there is a sign to the effect of that, Kaiser, it is, as you say, a little unclear. To be fair to the local bobby, he does sound as if he adhered to that understanding of the sign.

mackerski

Hamndegger wrote:

Certainly on the Dublin side, there is a sign to the effect of that, Kaiser, it is, as you say, a little unclear. To be fair to the local bobby, he does sound as if he adhered to that understanding of the sign.

I still don't see it. A sign that refers to a hard shoulder in no way affects the legal workings of a bus lane. I can see that they mightn't want vehicles using the lane out of hours, but as I said, there's a really easy solution to that that they haven't bothered adopting.

Del2005

Aren't the 24hour bus lanes where the hard shoulder used to be? And they are also on sections of road that was never open to traffic before the bus lane came along, thats why they won't let traffic drive in them when there are no buses running.

Victor

tristangkc wrote:

Got pulled over in the bus lane coming into Dunshaughlin the other week by a garda. Said that outside bus hours that the bus lane is a hard shoulder. As far as I know, outside bus hours everyone is free to drive in the bus lane. Anybody know what the final word is on this.

Did she ticket you?

_Kaiser_

Del2005 wrote:

Aren't the 24hour bus lanes where the hard shoulder used to be? And they are also on sections of road that was never open to traffic before the bus lane came along, thats why they won't let traffic drive in them when there are no buses running.

They're not 24-hour bus lanes though. In fact they only operate for 6 hours a day (7-10am inbound and 4-7pm outbound).

If they were 24-hours then as mackerski says there's be no question about it.

_Kaiser_

Hamndegger wrote:

Certainly on the Dublin side, there is a sign to the effect of that, Kaiser, it is, as you say, a little unclear. To be fair to the local bobby, he does sound as if he adhered to that understanding of the sign.

Well whatever about the "Hard shoulder reduced" side, the other (reading "Hard shoulder ends") would suggest to me from that point on, the lane becomes a regular Bus lane that is free for general use outside the hours of operation - just like every buslane in Dublin I've ever seen.

From the new 2007 Rules of the Road:

Where there is a bus lane, you will see an upright blue and white sign on the side of the road on a pole and on the roadway there will be markings of a continuous white line and the words 'Lana Bus'. You must obey the road
marking and the sign. The white plate shows when the section of road is meant only for the buses shown. Normally bus lanes operate from 7am to 7pm or during peak hours. Outside these times, all traffic may use them.

Now firstly aside from the fact that these lanes do not have the correct signs on the approach to them (they're white with different wording to the above - which means they're not legally bus lanes in the first place?), assuming the above quote is correct, then the Garda was completely wrong (not an unknown occurance :rolleyes:).

In fact come to think of it, there's no hard shoulder markings at all on the "reduced" Dublin side which would definitely make it a normal driving lane outside of the (potentially invalid/illegal) hours of operation anyway? The Navan side does have a dashed yellow line at the very edge I think - but this is the side that says "hard shoulder ends"

tristangkc

Hey everyone,

First of all thank you for all your replys.

On of the questions that was asked was, did the Garda issue a ticket. No he didn't but he was mightly peeved off. He obviously had just got a complaint from somone who had waited in the traffic for ages.

I totally agree with mackerski on the point that it doesn't matter what the road used to be (a hard shoulder), as this would be unfair to people not familiar with the area. So in my opion, it is now a bus lane within those hours and a normal lane outside.

I also have to say that this along when the bus lane on the N3 just after the dual-carriage way ends, these are the most sign posted bus lane, and bus lane hours that I have ever seen.

My last point is that, while pulled over a bus flue up the bus lane. By the Garda's logic, he should have also pulled over the bus and given him the same rant about the bus lane been a hard shoulder outside the hours.

BrianD

They have created a very confusing and dangerous situation when these part time bus lanes/hard shoulder.

The signage says 'hard shoulder suspended' during particular hours. Why didn't they just make it a 24 hour bus lane?

I also notice that the speed limit in the bus lane is 80km and presumably 100km in the traffic lane. Is this possible. It makes sense but is it technically legal?

AlekSmart

Quote [2007 RotR]......"Where there is a bus lane, you will see an upright blue and white sign on the side of the road on a pole and on the roadway there will be markings of a continuous white line and the words 'Lana Bus'." [End]

Where there is a Bus Lane we`ll call it something else....c`mon lads wattle we call it....eh ?

Ah !! Great stuff Aeongus.....Làna Bus...!!! Maith an fèar.....
This sort of oul codology tells us all we need to know,its make it up as we go along Time !!!! :mad:

Chris_533976

Corks bus lanes are rush hour only.

Of course everyone makes an effort to move the parked cars out of them during rush hour....

Victor

BrianD wrote:

I also notice that the speed limit in the bus lane is 80km and presumably 100km in the traffic lane. Is this possible. It makes sense but is it technically legal?

AFAIK, yes you can have different speed in different lanes and in different directions.

dsane1

hi people an update on this.i was on a bus eireannn bus coming from dublin at 3pm last week when it was stopped by a guard in the bus lane at dunshaughlin and he told the driver he was driving in a hard shoulder and was liable to prosecution but he didnt give him aticket.

BrianD

Meath CC should take action and make this 'temporary bus lane' a 24 hour bus lane and end the confusion. It's probably the only 'suspended hard shoulder' in Ireland and has a separate (but ignored) speed limit to the rest of the road. I constantlt get undertaken by boyracers using the bus lane. Leaving aside this element it's just confusing for many motorists.

I presume MCC won't make it a 24hr bus lane because they don't want the usual misinformed people going on about that busses don't operate 24hrs etc.

murphaph

Dear god, we can't even get a bus lane right.

ciaran76

We were driving out that road yesterday and my girlfriend kept wanting to go into the buslane to drive as she assumed it was open to normal traffic on a Sunday. There were a few cars driving in it yesterday.

I had flashback to this thread and was telling her to stay in the "normal" lane so we had a little arguement about it. I should send her the link to this post to prove I was right in a way !!!!

robfitz

Cars are allowed drive in the bus lane outside of it's hours of operation SI 182/1997 Article 32 '(2) A person shall not enter a bus lane with a vehicle.. ..during the period of operation.. ..indicated on an information plate.', this interpretation is clearly in use in the design and enforcement of bus lanes in Dublin.

Now the interesting bit is that there is no legal definition of a hard-shoulder, SI 181/1997 Article 28 and 29 are really really close.

What we do have is a definition of a roadway Act 14/1993 Section 2 '"roadway" means that portion of a road which is provided primarily for the use of vehicles;', so a bus lane is part of the roadway. And the offence of failing to drive to the left of the roadway SI 181/1993 Article 9.

So now the question is if you don't drive in the bus lane outside of it's hours of operation are you committing an offence?

[thread=2055114692]This is a related thread.[/thread]

Act 14/1993: Roads Act 1993

Interpretation.

2.—(1) In this Act, except where the context otherwise requires—
...
"roadway" means that portion of a road which is provided primarily for the use of vehicles;


SI 182/1997: Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations, 1997

Drive on Left

9. Save where otherwise required by these Regulations, a vehicle shall be driven on the left hand side of the roadway in such a manner so as to allow, without danger or inconvenience to traffic or pedestrians, approaching traffic to pass on the right and overtaking traffic to overtake on the right.

Bus Lanes

32. (1) A bus lane shall be indicated by means of traffic sign number RUS 028 or traffic sign number RUS 029 used in association with traffic sign number RRM 024, and a contra flow bus lane shall be indicated by means of traffic sign number RUS 030 used in association with traffic sign number RRM 024.
(2) A person shall not enter a bus lane with a vehicle other than an omnibus or a pedal cycle during the period of operation of the bus lane which shall be indicated on an information plate.
(3) A person shall not enter a contra flow bus lane with a vehicle other than an omnibus.
(4) A person shall not enter a bus only street with a vehicle other than an omnibus except for the purpose of access.
(5) ( a ) Sub-articles (1) and (2) shall not apply to a vehicle crossing a with flow bus lane or a contra flow bus lane solely for the purpose—
(i) of entering or leaving premises or property adjacent to such a bus lane, or
(ii) of entering or leaving a road inset adjacent to such a bus lane in order to load or unload goods.
( b ) Sub-article (2) shall not apply to a taxi or a wheelchair accessible taxi which is being used in the course of business.


SI 181/1997: Road Traffic (Signs) Regulations, 1997

Edge of Roadway.

28. Traffic sign number RRM 025 shall—
(a) indicate the line of the edge of a roadway, other than a motorway, and
(b) consist of a broken yellow line along the edge of a roadway, consisting of segments not less than 100 millimetres and not more than 150 millimetres wide, approximately 2 metres long and approximately 2 metres apart.

Left Edge of Motorway.

29. Traffic sign number RRM 026 shall—
(a) indicate the left hand edge of the carriageway of a motorway, and
(b) consist of a continuous yellow line approximately 150 millimetres wide.

mackerski

ciaran76 wrote:

I should send her the link to this post to prove I was right in a way !!!!

In what way do you think you were right? An out of hours bus lane is a normal traffic lane. An ex-hard-shoulder is precisely that.

_Kaiser_

Well as far as I can see there's now nothing to say the lane reverts to a hard shoulder on the Navan side anyway so it looks to all intents and purposes like a regular bus lane - ie: free for general use outside the posted hours.

Or is this now another particularly Oirish thing of local authorities and Gardai assuming that everyone will just know that it's in fact a "magic" lane - ie: now you see it, now you don't! :rolleyes:

ciaran76

mackerski wrote:

In what way do you think you were right? An out of hours bus lane is a normal traffic lane. An ex-hard-shoulder is precisely that.

Yeah but if the Gardai are pulling people over and giving them tickets for driving in it then I am right.

mackerski

ciaran76 wrote:

Yeah but if the Gardai are pulling people over and giving them tickets for driving in it then I am right.

We haven't established that any tickets have been issued. If any have, I'd very much like to know what the charge was, because it doesn't seem to be on statute.