Will any party pledge to "shake-up" RTE ?

redspider

RTE have realeased their financial results today, and in it (see below) you will see that it is an organisation which gets approx 405m (183m of that tax/fee payers) in revenues, and spends 390m of that, employing 2,283.

The problem that I see is that the state TV broadcaster is far far too cosy to be effective in terms of ensuring political accountability. The staff get paid on average far too high, and are too comfortable and that is BAD for democracy.

The so-called stars in RTE are getting WAY WAY above market rates. RTE should NOT be a job for life, these stars should have to go and make their own careers somewhere else after X years, and should not be living the life of reilly on the back of state funds in a quasi-monopoly situation. Its not as if citizens can donate their licence fee (ie: tax) to a competitor state broadcaster, there is no choice.

RTE do do good things, its not all bad of course. But, they are too pally with the politicians. An example of that even was the recent 'The State Of Us' comedy which parodied politicians and RTE staff/"stars". Ironically, RTE commisioned it from the same guy who made Scratch Saturday which was pulled and he as much admitted so on his recent Late Late interview, and Bull Islan was similarly pulled by RTE due to calls by politicians. These are just examples, as the more serious matter is when it comes to debating and highlighting the issues.

Another exaple is showing Oireachtas report at 11:55 and Eastenders at 8:00 - which is more important for the state? For voters?

I think it would be welcome if any party would put in their manifesto the need to radically overhaul the 'civil service' unit that is RTE, and bring it into the real world, both in terms of public service and its commercial aspect. Perhaps two different depts should be set-up to handle both or even seperate entities altogether. Of course, no party wants to pee off RTE so I'm not surprised its not in anyone's election manifesto. And no Government wants to do it either. Is RTE an untouchable?

RTE wrote:

Thursday, 3 May 2007 15:30

RTÉ has reported a surplus of €10.2m for last year, up from €9.3m in 2005 and ahead of its target.

The main contributors to the surplus were the television (€9.5m), radio (€2.6m) and network (€5.4m) divisions.

Commercial revenue last year was €222.2m, while income from the licence fee was €182.8m. Commercial revenue was €22.4m higher than in 2005, with a €15.6m rise in television advertising and a €2.7m increase in radio advertising.

Licence fee income was up €12.7m, mainly because of strong growth in the number of new households. RTE says it believes around 16% of all eligible households do not hold a licence.

Operating costs rose by 9.5% to €380.5m. The biggest factor was a near €20m rise in the costs of home-produced programmes, while the cost of buying sports rights and television programmes from overseas also increased.

RTÉ employed 2,283 people by the end of last year, 399 of whom were part-time or casual employees. The total employment figure was up 44 on 2005.

It said commercial income so far this year was in line with last year's levels.

So, do people think such a policy is a good idea? ie: re-vamping RTE

Redspider

Colonel Sanders

agree with you but no chance, Why bring in some form of accountability when they can just jack up license fees ala ESB price hikes.

gandalf

TBH I believe that all sectors of the Civil Service and Semi State governments need to be overhauled. The days of jobs for life are gone and it should be reflected in those organisations.

The time to do this should have been the last 10 years when monies were available to provide retrain for the staff being trimmed and to help with updating organisational structures to bring them up to the 21st century working practices. Of course that would have been a hard decision something the current government are incapable of.

The_Minister

gandalf wrote:

the current government are incapable of.

:rolleyes: and a government involving Labour is really going to stand up to the unions.

EDIT: Redspider, the truth is that RTE control th biggest news-broadcast in the country, and it would be a rare government that would go head-to-head with them.

Milktrolley

The_Minister wrote:

Redspider, the truth is that RTE control th biggest news-broadcast in the country, and it would be a rare government that would go head-to-head with them.

For all their faults, it would surprise me if RTÉ let an argument with the government get in the way of their editorial stance. I'm sure there's a rake of examples that'll prove me wrong though

As for RTÉ's highest earners being really comfy with their pay packets... well, it's not as if they need to pay Pat Kenny €800k a year to prevent him from leaving. Who else is going to have him? TV3 would never pay him hundreds of thousands and I can't imagine him being hot property across the water. As much as I'd laugh to hear an election promise that'd sort his generous earnings out, for instance, it won't happen.

Elmo

TV3 would never pay him hundreds of thousands and I can't imagine him being hot property across the water

No but Newstalk could be interested in him. He isn't as bad on the Radio.

RTE do do good things, its not all bad of course. But, they are too pally with the politicians. An example of that even was the recent 'The State Of Us' comedy which parodied politicians and RTE staff/"stars". Ironically, RTE commisioned it from the same guy who made Scratch Saturday which was pulled and he as much admitted so on his recent Late Late interview, and Bull Islan was similarly pulled by RTE due to calls by politicians. These are just examples, as the more serious matter is when it comes to debating and highlighting the issues.

TV3 axed their 6:30 news in the run up to the GE. TV3 could careless about Irish TV presenters.

Yes RTE needs to be re-vamped, but not to dumb down to TV3's level.

TV3 earned 55,000,000 euro
6.8 million spend on 155 employees (2005)
15,000,000 spend on TV imports (est)
the rest to shareholders. chi-ching $$$$$$$$$$$$$€€€€€€€€€€€€€€£££££££££
And I don't think David Redmond has every produced a TV show in his life.

RTE provide money to the following organisations
RTE Performing Groups (*4)
RTE RnaG (No adverts on RnaG)
TG4
BCI's Sound and Vision Fund
Plus 2 tv channels and 3 other radio channels.

All of the Independent Services put together are earning just as much money, if not more.

stepbar

gandalf wrote:

TBH I believe that all sectors of the Civil Service and Semi State governments need to be overhauled. The days of jobs for life are gone and it should be reflected in those organisations.

The time to do this should have been the last 10 years when monies were available to provide retrain for the staff being trimmed and to help with updating organisational structures to bring them up to the 21st century working practices. Of course that would have been a hard decision something the current government are incapable of.

I dont agree that all the Civil Service needs to be overhauled. Certain departments in it do. For example the Dept of Social Welfare is an utter shambles, all they do is push paper around and tick boxes all day (I know havin worked there for 3 months). On the other hand, the Public Appointments Service is an example of how resources should be used in Gov depts.

Elmo

Unlike other Semi-state bodies RTE has to be there for the public so to become overly commerical would be wrong.

mike65

What bugs me about RTE is they can't bring themselves to utter to P word, its not a surplus its a profit!

Expecting anyone to show "the Doings in the Dail" at 8 pm is pushing it a bit!

RTE needs its ad revenue and Eastenders brings in the punters (though quite why anyone would watch the version with an add break wedged into it beats me).

Mike.

redspider

There seems to be some general consensus then that RTE should be improved upon.

The Minster: "Redspider, the truth is that RTE control th biggest news-broadcast in the country, and it would be a rare government that would go head-to-head with them."

Agreed, indeed no party does, as they are afraid, and therein lies the problem. If all of our parties/government of every hue are afraid of RTE's power, then what sort of country are we living in? As a small nation of less than 5m, too much power in an undemocratic body such as RTE is not healthy.

The Minister, you are a voice of the PD's or know some of their positions on various matters, so what is their position on RTE? What policy do they have in relation to public broadcasting?

Elmo wrote:

No but Newstalk could be interested in him. He isn't as bad on the Radio.

Yes RTE needs to be re-vamped, but not to dumb down to TV3's level.

RTE provide money to the following organisations
....

Pat would be employable elsewhere, but not for his asking price of approx 1m. And Pat is just the tip of a very large iceberg/pyramid. The Finucane's the Cahill's etc, etc, producers, admin staff, its endemic in there, all of them okay-ish people but WAY above market rates for what they provide and it is taking up millions of tax payers money. If you and I went into RTE tomorrow as a Contoller and ran it as a commercial business, we could run it for a quarter of its current costs, half the fee/tax, and probably no ads, and probably of a lot higher quality to boot.

TV3 is obviously not the perfect model for it and TV3 has its own faults.

I agree that RTE does some good work, that is not in dispute at all, but then so did Ceaucescou and so does Bill Gates. Not perfect analogies, but you get my drift - good work doesnt mean that other aspects of their activities are not 'obscenely' inefficient/unfair, etc.

redspider

redspider

mike65 wrote:

What bugs me about RTE is they can't bring themselves to utter to P word, its not a surplus its a profit!

Expecting anyone to show "the Doings in the Dail" at 8 pm is pushing it a bit!

RTE needs its ad revenue and Eastenders brings in the punters (though quite why anyone would watch the version with an add break wedged into it beats me).

Hi Mike,

Yes, and that surplus would be huge if the organisation was ran efficiently. Currently its a lowly 10m/400 or about 2.5%. It probably could be 100m if not 200m. That is collosal.

Yes, I understand that the people need the 'opiates of the masses', such as Eastbenders, Corny St, Fairly Shi.tty, etc, but there should be a public broadcasting mandate first and foremost, so one channel (radio and tv) at least dedicated to the public service part, which would include Dail coverage (like C-Span?) at normal viewing times. Not 12.40 am and produced badly on purpose! It shouldnt be a case of either-or, as both and more can be accomodated, on RTE1, RTE2, RTE3, etc, etc.

Also, how much is RTE paying the BBC for Eastenders? Is providing it really needed? Surely hospital beds and Doctors are of more value to the country than having Eastenders on two settings on our TV's?

What is the licence fee, about 150 or so isnt it? Its hard to believe but the guts of 1 euro of that is going to Pat Kenny alone directly! Now that cant be right.

redspider

FlutterinBantam

redspider wrote:

There seems to be some general consensus then that RTE should be improved upon.

The Minster: "Redspider, the truth is that RTE control th biggest news-broadcast in the country, and it would be a rare government that would go head-to-head with them."

Agreed, indeed no party does, as they are afraid, and therein lies the problem. If all of our parties/government of every hue are afraid of RTE's power, then what sort of country are we living in? As a small nation of less than 5m, too much power in an undemocratic body such as RTE is not healthy.

The Minister, you are a voice of the PD's or know some of their positions on various matters, so what is their position on RTE? What policy do they have in relation to public broadcasting?




Pat would be employable elsewhere, but not for his asking price of approx 1m. And Pat is just the tip of a very large iceberg/pyramid. The Finucane's the Cahill's etc, etc, producers, admin staff, its endemic in there, all of them okay-ish people but WAY above market rates for what they provide and it is taking up millions of tax payers money. If you and I went into RTE tomorrow as a Contoller and ran it as a commercial business, we could run it for a quarter of its current costs, half the fee/tax, and probably no ads, and probably of a lot higher quality to boot.

TV3 is obviously not the perfect model for it and TV3 has its own faults.

I agree that RTE does some good work, that is not in dispute at all, but then so did Ceaucescou and so does Bill Gates. Not perfect analogies, but you get my drift - good work doesnt mean that other aspects of their activities are not 'obscenely' inefficient/unfair, etc.

redspider

!00% per cent correct.... These guys are conning the taxpayer..have been conning the taxpayer for years,and no one has the balls to take them on.

its a national disgrace.

The_Minister

redspider wrote:

The Minister, you are a voice of the PD's or know some of their positions on various matters, so what is their position on RTE? What policy do they have in relation to public broadcasting?

I am not the voice of the PDs, I just seem to be the only vocal PD supporter to post here.;)
The PDs like to shake up public monopolies, and provide competition (taxies etc.), but I'm not sure what their specific position on RTE is. I'll ask some of my friends and PM you the answer.

redspider

The_Minister wrote:

I am not the voice of the PDs, I just seem to be the only vocal PD supporter to post here.;)
The PDs like to shake up public monopolies, and provide competition (taxies etc.), but I'm not sure what their specific position on RTE is. I'll ask some of my friends and PM you the answer.

I realise you are not an official spokesperson for the PD's, but any insight into their policy on this issue would be welcome, as well as that from ANY other party who are willing to put their head above the parapet. Don't be shy now ....

redspider

Colonel Sanders

agree with just about everything on this thread but it won't happen in our life time, never mind the life time of the nest government.

OTK

A government owned media outlet is an affront to the idea of a free press and undermines our democracy. RTE ought to be sold. We wouldn't allow the government to own the Irish Times and the Irish Independent so why allow them to own TV and radio stations?

Naturally, government owned institutions are run inefficiently and are used as a mechanism of patronage by politicians. Their staff are overpaid and underworked.

Not being permanent staff, the salaries of P Kenny et al are probably not too high. Kenny likely brings in more in advertising revenue than he costs and he certainly has a market value and would be paid well by TV3 and newstalk. He gets a large audience. Doesn't matter if you dislike him or think a plank of wood could entertain you more.

If the state wishes to use TV and radio as a means of public education through public service broadcasting, it could simply purchase airtime from private broadcasters.

The counterargument to this view is that in the absence of state ownership of the broadcast media, corporate interests dominate - as in the US.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Elmo

I don't mean to harp on about the private TV service but TV3 really haven't done anything in the last 10 years.

They have failed in every area of TV production, while earning a packet with the worst of the US and the worst of the UK.

RTE didn't need to buy EastEnders, it wasn't until RTE bought that series that it became popular in Ireland, previously shown on TV3 it only had 100,000 viewers or less.

I do think that we need a good public service broadcaster but we also need a good independent service. Can you imagine if ITV cut its news out put in the UK or if they choose not to have any news on during Prime Time. (and then used the excuse well thats PSB, we are a private company we have to make millions)

I do beleive in good competitive practices and no one can argue that RTE are anti-competitive after all they only have a 40% share of the audiende between to TV channels and a 40% share of the audience between 4 radio channels. Ireland happens to have a very good competitive broadcast media.

The private sector is making a packet in this sector. Radio is forced to provide purely Irish schedule due to radio tastes in Ireland, while TV3 continue to push ITV and dumb down their service.

redspider

OTK wrote:

A government owned media outlet is an affront to the idea of a free press and undermines our democracy. RTE ought to be sold.

Naturally, government owned institutions are run inefficiently and are used as a mechanism of patronage by politicians. Their staff are overpaid and underworked.

Kenny likely brings in more in advertising revenue than he costs.

If the state wishes to use TV and radio as a means of public education through public service broadcasting, it could simply purchase airtime from private broadcasters.

The counterargument to this view is that in the absence of state ownership of the broadcast media, corporate interests dominate - as in the US.

Well, I think you've already provided a good counterargument. There are several aspects to Public Service Broadcasting. First, it should be independent of the Government in its workings and its output. In fact, it should be the sole standard bearer in ensuring that the free press remains free from political bias. As you know, private companies are not a guarantee of a free press, as they can have and do have political bias. An independent company with guaranteed funding levels safeguards that. Of course the size of funding is critical, and if anything, that should be put to a plebiscite, a referendum, to decide how much taxpayers money is allocated to RTE (or whatever entity is deemed the public state broadcaster).

After that basis, then the Public Service Broadcasting company needs to decide what aspects of it it will provide as commercial, entertainment, etc. The current status of RTE is FAR from what a proper state-funded yet politically independent state broadcaster should be. It has evoled from what it is, as have those broadcasters in other countries, when all countries had one channel, etc. Many state broadcasters have a mix, and are also struggling with their raison d'tre, their function in society, etc, such as the BBC.

elmo wrote:

I do think that we need a good public service broadcaster but we also need a good independent service. Can you imagine if ITV cut its news out put in the UK or if they choose not to have any news on during Prime Time. (and then used the excuse well thats PSB, we are a private company we have to make millions)

I do beleive in good competitive practices and no one can argue that RTE are anti-competitive after all they only have a 40% share of the audiende between to TV channels and a 40% share of the audience between 4 radio channels. Ireland happens to have a very good competitive broadcast media.

Yes, I agree, we need a good public service broadcaster and a good selection of private broadcasters. The market is regulated at the moment in TV and Radio, you or I cant just start broadcasting tomorrow, and although I haven't brushed up on media studies, my understanding is that print/publishing media has zero or very few controls. There is no reason why RTE cant publish a newspaper. The RTE Guide is one of sorts, mind you, with a very narrow focus on entertainment.

> they only have a 40% share of the audiende

But when it comes to political debate, they have a much higher share than that I would guestimate, closer to 80% perhaps. Its a quasi-monopoly and clearly a dominant force.

Overall, I agree with the general consensus, that the RE situation is not going to be improved upon quickly, and the lack of interest in the Politicians solving it this time around is clear and its a perennial problem.

Of course the catch-22 is that the best place to discuss this is on RTE itself, but that aint gonna happen, turkey's voting for Xmas and all that.

redspider

Elmo

But when it comes to political debate, they have a much higher share than that I would guestimate, closer to 80% perhaps. Its a quasi-monopoly and clearly a dominant force.

RTE cann't be blamed for this. Local radio services have a high percentage of Current Affairs on their services. (Bar Dublin services which seem not to want to go there, I beleive they consider Adrain Kennedy Current Affairs :rolleyes: ) Newstalk is now available nationwide (they do have to build an audience, and are paying good money to their presenters.) While todayfm are paying good money to many of their presenters, but have reduced their current affairs output hugely.

Local services beleive that Death Notices are part of their requirment (even though they get money for this service :rolleyes: )

TV3 have been lack luster in the area of Current Affairs and again we cann't blame RTE in TV3's lack of interest in Current Affairs/News.

TV3 haven't try very hard with their current affairs or news output.

Again RTE cann't be blamed for the lack of current affairs on other services. That is an issue for the BCI/BAI to deal with and IMO the BCI/BAI need to futher the requirments of TV3 as a National Service and as the nations 2nd most watch TV channel.

There is no reason why RTE cant publish a newspaper. The RTE Guide is one of sorts, mind you, with a very narrow focus on entertainment.

Under the law RTE are a stated owned Broadcaster/Publisher as is TG4.

However broadcast news tends not to be as bais as printed news.

Also you will note that the PDs have begun to introduce Regulation in the newspaper sector.

Deflector

redspider wrote:

the general consensus

What consensus? That some people with no knowledge of broadcasting or how it operates, RTÉ's organisational structure or its pay rates, work practices or that of the wider industry, making generalised and unsubstantiated claims about the national broadcaster ought to be taken seriously?

Indeed the fact that this thread is posted in the Politics forum in itself speaks volumes; obviously it's partially a political matter, but these issues have been gone over countless, countless times in the Broadcasting and Television forums, where oddly enough people who do know what they're talking about have contributed more cogently to the issue in hand. This by now a tired topic on Boards.

FlutterinBantam

This is a discussion forum where diverse opinions and views are aired.

I must say I have to smile gently when people use the "People who know what they are talking about" line .

Do we slot posters who's views are contrary to our into the "people who don't know what they are talking about"category.???

RTE in my opinion is a neccessity and in the main is well run and professional,but to say there could not be major reductions in cost base with the savings cascading down to the licence payer,is frankly bunkum.

redspider

Deflector wrote:

What consensus? That some people with no knowledge of broadcasting or how it operates, RTÉ's organisational structure or its pay rates, work practices or that of the wider industry, making generalised and unsubstantiated claims about the national broadcaster ought to be taken seriously?

Indeed the fact that this thread is posted in the Politics forum in itself speaks volumes; obviously it's partially a political matter, but these issues have been gone over countless, countless times in the Broadcasting and Television forums, where oddly enough people who do know what they're talking about have contributed more cogently to the issue in hand. This by now a tired topic on Boards.

No Knowledge? Well, do feel free to enlighten us with some revelations. Join the debate rather than poorly attempting to debase it.

As RTE is legislated for, its funding, operations, its value for money and output, etc, is of course equally as relevant to be discussed in a political forum as much as a broadcasting/media one.

I agree that RTE has been discussed before, but the debate surrounding it wont go away while the status quo exists and whilst many people recognise that there are problems in RTE, even RTE staff do! If you cant bear to read about it, then feel free to 'look away now'.


Another thing I spotted:

RTÉ hoped to use its accumulated losses of €1.88bn, accumulated since 1962, to offset any corporate tax liability it might incur as a result of Revenue's decision to begin taxing its licence fee revenue from January 1, 2007. The Irish Times said that Revenue has sought to prevent RTÉ from carrying forward any losses incurred before the end of 2006.

Thats one hell of an accumulated loss! And it would seem to indicate financial mismanagement and more wastage of resources over the decades.

Revenue want to tax the licence fee, which is in all intents and purposes a tax! Hmm, its just moving money around from one cost centre to another. It may make RTE become more efficient, maybe ..... I wont be holding my breath.

Redspider

gurramok

RTE are lazy and hypocritical when crying out for additional funds yet they havent chased that 2 odd million that Beverly Cooper Flynn owes the station for last number of years.

Thats could be a €5 reduction in licence fee for the average punter if it was retrieved.

copacetic

redspider wrote:

No Knowledge? Well, do feel free to enlighten us with some revelations. Join the debate rather than poorly attempting to debase it.

As RTE is legislated for, its funding, operations, its value for money and output, etc, is of course equally as relevant to be discussed in a political forum as much as a broadcasting/media one.

I agree that RTE has been discussed before, but the debate surrounding it wont go away while the status quo exists and whilst many people recognise that there are problems in RTE, even RTE staff do! If you cant bear to read about it, then feel free to 'look away now'.


Another thing I spotted:


Thats one hell of an accumulated loss! And it would seem to indicate financial mismanagement and more wastage of resources over the decades.

Revenue want to tax the licence fee, which is in all intents and purposes a tax! Hmm, its just moving money around from one cost centre to another. It may make RTE become more efficient, maybe ..... I wont be holding my breath.

Redspider

I think he was trying to point out that there is a pile of comment taken as fact in this thread and what looks to be a total lack of understanding of how RTÉ is funded. There have been plenty of thread on broadcasting were people with a bit more understanding of the issue post. I saw this thread start and was tempted to post but whats the point when it is just people posting opinion as fact that they can't back up.

The irony of a thread calling for political interference in RTÉ while complaining that they do what politicians want all the time is unbelievable.

eg the above post (and this is no way the worst of the above)

RTE are lazy and hypocritical when crying out for additional funds yet they havent chased that 2 odd million that Beverly Cooper Flynn owes the station for last number of years.

where are they crying out from? where is the source of this statement?
what is hypocritical about this issue?

Have they not chased the money? Who says? She doesn't have the money, where do you think it is going to come from, thin air?

Mick86

redspider wrote:

RTE have realeased their financial results today, and in it (see below) you will see that it is an organisation which gets approx 405m (183m of that tax/fee payers) in revenues, and spends 390m of that, employing 2,283.

The problem that I see is that the state TV broadcaster is far far too cosy to be effective in terms of ensuring political accountability. ....

We don't need a state broadcaster in this day and age. Throw RTE to the wolves of commercial broadcasting.

Elmo

We don't need a state broadcaster in this day and age. Throw RTE to the wolves of commercial broadcasting.

So that we can have more TV3 type programming ?