Terrible Play PLO hand.....

eoghan104

OK rip me to shreds.......

Last night in the Fitz 50 game. Its playing quite big with average stacks circa 500 at this stage. Villain in the hand is a weak tight nit luckbox donkey (only joking its 5starpool )

Details maybe a little shady Dom can correct me.

Stacks(ish)

Me: €800
Dom €650

Dom raises to 5 in MP and I raise to €20 one to his left. A couple of callers and dom makes it €90. I call along all others fold. I have Ks 10h 9s Jh. (bad call??)

This is where it gets bad.......

Flop Kx Qs 3s

Dom bets pot €220 and I flat call :mad: (terrible looking back)........ Should I reraise here? Fold?

Turn is 5s

dom shoves for €280. Action on me. Now I firmly put him on AAxx or KKxx here and Im trying to decide if he has just the ace of spades or the nuts. I know hes a good enough player to make the play with just the ace.

Thoughts?

Hectorjelly

since you got there I dont see how you can fold!

bubbleking

there is actually no way i can see you being ahead in this hand.

looks like Dom turned the nuts.

by the way..fold preflop

eoghan104

Hectorjelly wrote:

since you got there I dont see how you can fold!

Yeh I know I cant really fold here but I know im drawing dead alot its a crap position to get in. What do you think of flop and preflop?

imalegend

eoghan104 wrote:

OK rip me to shreds.......

Last night in the Fitz 50 game. Its playing quite big with average stacks circa 500 at this stage. Villain in the hand is a weak tight nit luckbox donkey (only joking its 5starpool )

Details maybe a little shady Dom can correct me.

Stacks(ish)

Me: €800
Dom €650

Dom raises to 5 in MP and I raise to €20 one to his left. A couple of callers and dom makes it €90. I call along all others fold. I have Ks 10h 9s 8h. (bad call??)

This is where it gets bad.......

Flop Kx Qs 3s

Dom bets pot €220 and I flat call :mad: (terrible looking back)........ Should I reraise here? Fold?

Turn is 5s

dom shoves for €280. Action on me. Now I firmly put him on AAxx or KKxx here and Im trying to decide if he has just the ace of spades or the nuts. I know hes a good enough player to make the play with just the ace.

Thoughts?

Eoghan i think you had K J 10 9...I saw your hand and you defo had the st8 draw off the flop aswell.Dom would make the play he did with the lonely ace of spades on that flop aswell which is the only problem.

Hard pass to make but i prob would have folded on the turn after just flat calling the flop.But im a donkey!;) And also huge investment already made.

I also think you would have been able to make the pass if you hadnt have paniced when clock was called on you.You almost called st8 away which i think was a huge mistake.You had a minute to make up your mind but you rushed it and got it wrong.Ah well dom is a luck box anyways with his runner runner full houses;)

Nice winning by the way dom played well and got played off on all the big hands.Nice tidy profit!

bubbleking

eoghan104 wrote:

Yeh I know I cant really fold here but I know im drawing dead alot its a crap position to get in. What do you think of flop and preflop?

sorry forgot to mention in my 1st post the flat call stinks of a drawing hand on the flop so do you think hed really push into you that the flush hits on the turn??

imalegend

bubbleking wrote:

sorry forgot to mention in my 1st post the flat call stinks of a drawing hand on the flop so do you think hed really push into you that the flush hits on the turn??

Yes he would as he had the ace of spades and he would make this play also with the lonely ace of spades IMO.

Flipper

some might say that calling off over 10% of your stack (and more importantly, your opponents stack) is wrong and those people are probably right. I'd probably fold pre-flop as the stacks aren't deep enough.

As played, Dom has fired 3 bullets at the pot and I'd be shocked if he didn't have at least the As and he'll have the flush here 30-40% of the time. you're not totally wrong in going broke in this pot (which I assume you did) and you are just unlucky if both of you made the flush. Your call on the flop is definately the wrong move. I'm aware that a push is never getting him to fold but at least he'll be the one calling off his money. Tbh, if i'd gone this far in the hand, I'd push here but I'd also have folded to the re-re raise pre-flop and not have been in this mess.

EDIT: as played, insta call

Hectorjelly

eoghan104 wrote:

Yeh I know I cant really fold here but I know im drawing dead alot its a crap position to get in. What do you think of flop and preflop?

I would fold preflop, and then push or fold the flop. I dont like calling such a big bet on the flop, not really knowing what your outs are.

eoghan104

Flipper wrote:

some might say that calling off over 10% of your stack (and more importantly, your opponents stack) is wrong and those people are probably right. I'd probably fold pre-flop as the stacks aren't deep enough.

As played, Dom has fired 3 bullets at the pot and I'd be shocked if he didn't have at least the As and he'll have the flush here 30-40% of the time. you're not totally wrong in going broke in this pot (which I assume you did) and you are just unlucky if both of you made the flush. Your call on the flop is definately the wrong move. I'm aware that a push is never getting him to fold but at least he'll be the one calling off his money. Tbh, if i'd gone this far in the hand, I'd push here but I'd also have folded to the re-re raise pre-flop and not have been in this mess.

EDIT: as played, insta call

I had 800 BB's and he had 650 BB's thats fairly deep no??

Yeh Its marginal preflop allright and I think its a push on the flop as I did have the OESD aswell which I had just got wrong in the OP. Does the fact I had the J and not the 8 make a difference regarding Fold/Call Preflop?

I know its a terrible spot to get into and I always seem to get myself in these spots. Id be much happier if Id of pushed the flop. I called any way and he had the nuts

5starpool

I thought you might post this up. I would have played this hand the same way if I had the nut spades, KKxx, QQxx, or AAxx with only the nut bluff since we were headsup to the flop.

I think the only difference I would make (minor) is that you made it 15 preflop and there were 3 callers of that before I repopped it max. Not much of a difference though I know. The rest seems about right though.

Flipper

eoghan104 wrote:

I had 800 BB's and he had 650 BB's thats fairly deep no??(

I mean what % of your stack your are putting in pre-flop.

ianmc38

I'd be shoving that flop. Folding preflop is difficult cos that hand just looks so tasty.

DeadParrot

I dont know if I could find a fold here preflop....I havent played with dom (or any of yis) in PLO but the repop might have made me slow down
as played I'd be shoving the flop though. In fairness to you though dom was never folding on the flop with €280 behind.

Killme00

ianmc38 wrote:

Folding preflop is difficult cos that hand just looks so tasty.

eH? Fold Preflop..please

Oh and either raise or fold the flop..dont flat call

Marq

If I called preflop I would probably have shoved the flop.

It's easy for me to say fold preflop but calling with these sorts of hands for sizeable percentages of my stack is one of the leaks in my live omaha game. you have position, you were an aggressor in the hand, and there's lots of money to be won here. I would often call but it's definitely a losing play in the long run.

The biggest problem here is that the stacksizes are deceptive. You'll often call here thinking with so much money behind you can take a shot and get the rest in on successive streets or else fold when you miss. But the pot is now such a big percentage of your remaining stacks that a flop bet/call now pretty much commits you to getting the rest of your money in the middle.

Also, your hand will hit a lot of flops pretty hard, but not so hard that you would gladly get all your money in if the initial pot was much smaller. [ie, that you'd be happy to get 650 euro in to the pot if there was five in it as much as you'd be happy to get 650 euro in to the pot if there was five hundred in it, if you know what I mean].

Calling the flop is awful, as many have already pointed out. You have loads of outs to improve, but you don't know how many are clean. You could even be ahead right now and you're the one letting Dom draw for cheap. Tank the fúck out of it.

Bandana boy

I dont think the pre flop call is that bad at all you both still have lots behind and you should both be able to get away from the hand on the flop
couple of questions

Is dom doing this with AA or with other hands ?
If he is only doing it with AA will he cb every flop or only if he is has other outs ?
These are two important questions to have in your head if you want to call this pre flop

As played you have hit a monster flop get it all in the middle or fold based on above
you are fav against naked AA and Dom might get away from this pot with no spade ace on a spade turn costing u money
but as your not getting away from a missed turn you have to push
hey if you take it down on the flop how bad

ianmc38

Killme00 wrote:

eH? Fold Preflop..please

Oh and either raise or fold the flop..dont flat call

Do i have to? But it's so pwitty.

imalegend

Killme00 wrote:

eH? Fold Preflop..please

just out of interest if you are saying fold pre flop here what hands would you call 80 pre flop with considering you have position on the aggressor??

Killme00

ianmc38 wrote:

Do i have to? But it's so pwitty.

ha it ranks up there with the 'but they were sooted' stuff

The original raiser pumped it again preflop. This narrows down their possible hands, and our hand does not play well against that range.

Killme00

imalegend wrote:

just out of interest if you are saying fold pre flop here what hands would you call 80 pre flop with considering you have position on the aggressor??

suited or double suited mid connectors (4 to 10) not gapped high connectors anyway. I think the villians range of hands here would more often than not block and dominate our hand