Transportation of airsoft equipment

CrazyRabbit

The question is this: What are the legal requirements for the transportation of airsoft guns to/from airsoft skirmish locations?

OK, here is the almost 100% guaranteed semi-official answer on this...I don't know any judges or how to contact them. so this info is as good as it gets for now.

Firstly, here is the opinion of the gardai.

I went to the Blanchardstown station directly after work today. I gave them a copy of the section of the Criminal Justice bill that is relevant to airsoft and a copy of the Firearms and Offensive Weapons Act 1990 that Sparks provided. I then posed the question stated above.

Initial response = WTF is airsoft?

I explained roughly what airsoft was, and the Garda disappeared out back for a few mins. Another garda arrived shortly and he was very pleasant (no handcuffs at the ready ).
He invited me to one of the interview rooms to discuss the issue. This Garda was aware of airsoft and immediately mentioned his concerns about it. And of course he was wondering why I was asking this question. So I explained that the airsoft community are a responsible group and wanted to ensure that we didn't break any laws. Anyway, we chatted for a good 25-20 mins and this is the jist of what he was telling me:

1. If possible, carry airsoft guns in proper cases that are designed to carry them. It looks less suspicious then, and more legitimate.

2. While he did not believe it was illegal, he strongly recommended not carrying airsoft guns in pockets, plastic bags, or anything else that showed the shape of the gun.

3. Carrying a pistol in your pocket would look very suspicious to any garda that stopped & searched you and may be enough reason to make an initial arrest on suspicion of a crime in some circumstances. It would be more difficult to convince the garda and the courts that you had it for legitimate reasons.

4. Any case being used to transport airsoft guns should not be left unattended as they are at a greater risk of being stolen, and could end up with the airsoft gun being used for criminal purposes.

5. Actually displaying an airsoft gun in a public place will most likely get you arrested or worse.

6. If you have children in the home, than the airsoft guns should be locked safely out of reach of the children.

It's not word-for-word, but that's basically the main points he made. I don't think I've forgotten anything, but if I remember something else, then I'll update the post later.
In the end he was grateful for the information that I provided about airsoft and he made the comment that he was very glad to see that there was an organised group that was so concerned about the safety & legal aspects of airsoft. Altogether, a very pleasant chat.

Now for the response from the solicitor (again, not word for word):

1. It doesn't matter what bag, case etc you use to transport the weapon (his words). What matters is the intent. At any time that you are carrying an airsoft gun, knife, metal bar etc, you can be arrested and charged for carrying an offensive weapon. The burden would then be on you to prove in a court of law that you had a legitimate and lawful reason for carrying it. The same could be said about any item that could be used as a weapon. In practice, common sense is used by the gardai to determine the intent and arrests are only made when warranted.
If you are walking down a street at night time with a single golf club, then expect to be arrested. If travelling to a golf course during the day with a full set of clubs, and other golf related items then you would have nothing to worry about.

2. The law is written to prevent crime, but not to prevent law-abiding citizens from using, for legitimate reasons, items that could be otherwise viewed as weapons.
3. Displaying any weapon in a threatening manner immediately shows intent to cause a crime and is an arrestable offence. A good example is a mechanic with a screwdriver. Perfectly fine unless, for example, it was being held in an threatening manner during an argument.

Didn't get to chat for long so I couldn't get answers on everything. It's also the 2nd time in 2 days I've been pestering him about airsoft & the law. I better not mention it again for a while.

Now, before anyone gets into a panic, or starts flaming me, please take the time to reread my post and make sure you are not misunderstanding something. If there is something in particular that people would like clarification on, then I'll try to get clarification, though it may take a day
or two.

EDIT : Fixed many horrendous spelling mistakes that I didn't spot the first 2 times I proof-read the post.

o1s1n

Nice work. Would be great if every Garda station in the country could be informed about airsoft in the same way.

I know there was discussion about trying to come up with some sort of information pack to send out to them but there were concerns it would just get binned as junk mail.

Anyway, interesting read.

Spitfire666

nice work

kdouglas

well done

Shiva

CrazyRabbit wrote:

This Garda was aware of airsoft and immediately mentioned his concerns about it.

When you say he mentioned his concerns, do you mean the circumstances in which they are transported, which you outlined after that paragraph, or does he have other concerns, perhaps about the wisdom of legalising the equipment, or something along those lines ? You say he was aware of airsoft as a sport - did he mention how he knew about it ? And would he initially have regarded it in a negative light ?

Nice job, btw...very informative.

CrazyRabbit

Shiva wrote:

When you say he mentioned his concerns, do you mean the circumstances in which they are transported, which you outlined after that paragraph, or does he have other concerns, perhaps about the wisdom of legalising the equipment, or something along those lines ? You say he was aware of airsoft as a sport - did he mention how he knew about it ? And would he initially have regarded it in a negative light ?

Nice job, btw...very informative.

His concerns were mainly about kids getting hold of them, and the Airsoft guns (especially the pistols) being used in crimes. He conceded the fact that a criminal who is going to rob a post office for example is going to do it even if airsoft guns didn't exist. And it's better if they had used an airsoft gun rather that something that could actually kill or cause serious injury. (not that I or the Garda are advocating the use of airsoft guns in any criminal fashion).

I didn't ask how he was aware of airsoft. Would be interesting to know alright.

And yes, his opinion of it was quite negative, but he certainly has a more positive view of it now (he may not be a supporter of airsoft, but he now realises that it is a sport enjoyed sensibly by many people).

extremetaz

good work 'rabbit! nicely done in every regard and exactly the type of impression we need to be making.

fair play to you!

kdouglas

have to admit, when you mentioned in the other thread about going and talking to the gardaí, i was very skeptical, i could imagine their reaction being one of "this looks like a real gun? oh no, we cant be having that now!" or something quite negative, and not being willing to listen to the facts about the sport.

fair play though

spitfire: not that i have a negative view of the gardai, just people who are misinformed

Hivemind187

I hate to admit it Crazy but you did a good job on this one.

"Best foot forward" jumps to mind.

CrazyRabbit

I have this warm fuzzy feeling all over now.

MaxForce

Hey Rabbit, as the giy on the Statoil ad says "Fair Play to Yeah":D

ED E

*Salutes Commander in chief Crazzy Rabit

Spitfire666

kdouglas wrote:

spitfire: not that i have a negative view of the gardai, just people who are misinformed

Dont need to mention it..............
....................................................
..........................................................
..............................................................NO, REALLY.

Fallschirmjager

well all i can say is wow. ballsy of you to out yourself and what the guards said is also open minded and helpful. bravo all around

as an aside there are a lot of gunbags on ebay and they are around 30 dollars or so...they can carry in some places 2 rifles, and all yer supporting gear, pistols batteries etc.. might be an idea for people to pick them up...

kdouglas

currently using one of these myself, fits tac vest/gloves/mp5/pistol/bb's/mask/ etc.. quite nicely, plenty of pockets too for bits and pieces

CrazyRabbit

Fallschirmjager wrote:

well all i can say is wow. ballsy of you to out yourself and what the guards said is also open minded and helpful. bravo all around

as an aside there are a lot of gunbags on ebay and they are around 30 dollars or so...they can carry in some places 2 rifles, and all yer supporting gear, pistols batteries etc.. might be an idea for people to pick them up...

Yeah, I have one of the double riflebags.

I was carrying the rifle bag, and a backpack fully of stuff. Weighed a ton. Now I've removed a few things, packed items more tightly and I'm down to just the rifle bag and a small mag-pouch bag.

One problem though....in HRTA, I bought some bb's, and some food etc in the shops at lunch. On the way home, I had no room left in the case/pouch. I ended up having to carry my glock 18c in my jacket pocket. And that's where this thread all started...there was concern over the legality of carrying the pistol in a pocket.

kdouglas

personally i would have put the bb's in my pocket.....

ED E

I'd have eaten the Food!

sidneyreilly

A lot of shooters I know use the plastic toolbox's from LLdl to transport pistols, they are handy for spare mags, cleang kits, ammo etc..

Fallschirmjager

sidneyreilly wrote:

A lot of shooters I know use the plastic toolbox's from LLdl to transport pistols, they are handy for spare mags, cleang kits, ammo etc..

thats a good idea....and completely unnoticeable also...not so scary when u are in yur bdu's and flak jacket on the bus! LOL

kdouglas

would avoid wearing full combat gear on the bus too tbh, nothing illegal about it, just looks odd, if your getting a bus that goes past any "dodgy" areas, some scummers could take a liking to ya.

CrazyRabbit

kdouglas wrote:

personally i would have put the bb's in my pocket.....

It's a small pouch, and much much easier to fit a squishy bag of bb's in there (inside the face mask). Glock is big and bulky unfortunately.

As for the food....well there was a lot.

CrazyRabbit

kdouglas wrote:

would avoid wearing full combat gear on the bus too tbh, nothing illegal about it, just looks odd, if your getting a bus that goes past any "dodgy" areas, some scummers could take a liking to ya.

I wear the full combat hear to every game, including a jacket. I take a train and a bus. Not once have I ever had a problem. Just a few stares and one or two questions like "Are you in the army mate?", from curious tourists.

Not sure I'd want to walk into one of them dodgy areas that you mentioned though. Might certainly attract the wrong type of attention.

Harekin

Would the scum not leave you alone if you had your combat gear and a rifle case over your shoulder?

kdouglas

depends how brave and/or stupid they are!

Voodoomelon

CrazyRabbit wrote:

I wear the full combat hear to every game, including a jacket. I take a train and a bus. Not once have I ever had a problem. Just a few stares and one or two questions like "Are you in the army mate?", from curious tourists.

Not sure I'd want to walk into one of them dodgy areas that you mentioned though. Might certainly attract the wrong type of attention.

Rabbit, if you take a train and a bus, does that mean you're wearing full combat gear and carrying your AEG case/bag aswell?

o1s1n

Voodoomelon wrote:

Rabbit, if you take a train and a bus, does that mean you're wearing full combat gear and carrying your AEG case/bag aswell?

Yes it does. It would appear discretion isn't in his vocabulary

I myself would much rather if people wore as little combat gear as possible while going to and from the site. Maybe just have their combat trousers on but kept a jacket /shirt in their bag to put on upon arrival. (What I tend to do is roll my AEG in my combat jacket to give it some added protection)
I know it's not illegal. However, the less attention you bring to yourself while transporting such equipment the better. The last thing you need is some undesirables to start giving you hassle. Next thing you know, they're running off down the road with your 350 euro AEG.

CrazyRabbit

o1s1n wrote:

Yes it does. It would appear discretion isn't in his vocabulary

I myself would much rather if people wore as little combat gear as possible while going to and from the site. Maybe just have their combat trousers on but kept a jacket /shirt in their bag to put on upon arrival. (What I tend to do is roll my AEG in my combat jacket to give it some added protection)
I know it's not illegal. However, the less attention you bring to yourself while transporting such equipment the better. The last thing you need is some undesirables to start giving you hassle. Next thing you know, they're running off down the road with your 350 euro AEG.

I can't even spell the word desrctrtrin. It's not in my vocabulary.

Only twice have I had anyone comment on what I was wearing. Last weekend, an american tourist on a dart train asked if I was in the army. (He wanted to take my pic!) And today while entering Connolly station some drunk guy stood to attention and saluted me in the american military style. That got a few laughs from some nearby people and myself.

I know that combats could possibly bring some negative attention from yobs. I may get beaten up, my aeg stolen etc, but I won't live my life letting some scumbag yobs dictate what I can and cannot do. It's a matter of principle.

Shiva

CrazyRabbit wrote:

I won't live my life letting some scumbag yobs dictate what I can and cannot do.

Damn right....that'll be your wife's job

MaxForce

What Shiva said and thats coming from a married guy.:D

CrazyRabbit

ROFL


EDIT: Hmm...smilies are not working...

Spitfire666

most people will just think your in the army if your in full camo and would be less likely to ge the wrong idea then if you were in say a tracksuit with a rifle bag on you shoulder.
And although thick, i cant see any scumbag stealing a "gun" (cant imagine theyd know it wasnt real) from a guy in combats.

thecivvie

Spitfire, think you are right, for all they know, you could be a Ranger

Fiach Dubh

The worst you'll probably get is some scumbags shouting abuse at you. A few years ago a very good friend of mine was coming down to my house to visit after just finishing his basic training in the PDF. He was wearing his number 1's (dress uniform) and he got abuse from some scumbags on the way :mad: That's the way some people in this country treat those who may be called up to fight and die protecting them some day.

Genghiz Cohen

the gardai wouldnt stoop you to ax questions would they, well they might if you were kitted out in camo and were carrying a rifle case, and had "Kop Killah" on the back of your jacket, but i dont think anyone has to worry aboot the latter.

CrazyRabbit

Genghiz Cohen wrote:

the gardai wouldnt stoop you to ax questions would they, well they might if you were kitted out in camo and were carrying a rifle case, and had "Kop Killah" on the back of your jacket, but i dont think anyone has to worry aboot the latter.

I've been seen by plenty of gardai and not once have they asked any questions. (Quite unexpected really). There have a been a few occasions when we were meeting up at the spire and Gardai walked past 5-6 of us suspicios fellows in combats with rifle bags etc.

16airassualt

im planning on using an old guitar bag/backpack i have lying round.it will fit most aegs and its discreet,as for wearing combats and webbing out,im jus gonna put all that kina stuff in my schoolbag when i go skirmishing.that way you wont have the armed response unit following you to htra

kdouglas

just say your going to a fancy dress

16airassualt

mabye at gerry adams house

Spitfire666

webbing might be a bit much but combat pants and jacket is no big deal, it was fasionable once uppon a time

skinner75

Spitfire666 wrote:

webbing might be a bit much but combat pants and jacket is no big deal, it was fasionable once uppon a time

Hey! Combats are the only trousers I own! That, and about three different army jackets, my fav being the WW2 German 'Elite' reversable winter parka, with the autumn oak leaves dot pattern - my fav camo pattern of all time!

Spitfire666

when i say they WERE in fasion i mean EVERYBODY wore them at one stage. not so much now but people still wear em of course.

Way back when it was genuine surplus gear though, now its fasion camo and isnt realy the genuine articles.

skinner75

Spitfire666 wrote:

when i say they WERE in fasion i mean EVERYBODY wore them at one stage. not so much now but people still wear em of course.

Way back when it was genuine surplus gear though, now its fasion camo and isnt realy the genuine articles.

I know what you mean by fashion camo alright - or even fashion combats for that matter!
For me though, it has to be the German 'moleskins' made by Katz, from Army Bargins.