prehistoric find

dream brother

Cant find this anywhere else so I said I'ld put it here.
The Minister for the Environment, Dick Roche, has ordered that some work be stopped in an area surrounding a prehistoric find on part of the planned route of the M3 motorway in Co Meath.
Apperantly its three times the size of a football field! Any one hear more on this?

brianthebard

Its on the rte website. Have you heard of google?

solas

wouldnt be the hill of tara would it?

Binomate

Non-sense, the world is only 5000 years old.

Degsy

Most probably a vast,as yet-undiscovered species of dinosaur..perhaps one of Mary Harney's ancestors.

Ste.phen

Not *ON* the hill, butin the Tara valley, the ireland.com story from yesterday was posted in the Commuting/Transport forum under the M3 thread

Feral Mutant

Three times the size of a football field? It could be Yore Ma.
On a serious note, link.

Unpossible

Is the road going through the hill or near it?


They seem so surprised to find something there, despite the fact that the place is littered with sites and tombs

Wertz

They found ruins of archaeological interest on a world heritage site????
Oh man, I'm blown away, that was so unexpected, I mean who for a moment thought there'd be anything but stones and soil in that area?

Shame on the idiots in charge who let this road anywhere near that site, but on the other hand without the work the ruins would have remained undiscovered.

If this isn't reason enough to spend the extra to take the alternative route then I don't know what is...

Degsy

Ancient sites are holding us,as a nation back.They should be bulldozed away immediatly and replaced with apartment blocks,Centras and tiny,enclosed paved areas where the children of the apartments can roam and play freely.

WindSock

Its a bronze age settlement apparantly

Nevyn

It is in the commuting and transport forum.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=246

and yes they did screw up big time.

John Mason

That company's reputation is ****.ed, how many years did it take them to the site survey in the first place and they missed something bigger then croke park??????? more wasted money

5starpool

Degsy wrote:

Ancient sites are holding us,as a nation back.They should be bulldozed away immediatly and replaced with apartment blocks,Centras and tiny,enclosed paved areas where the children of the apartments can roam and play freely.

Well said. If those ancient types were so great they would still be alive today wouldn't they?

Duff

Is it an ancient dinosaur footy stadium??

funky penguin

Three ancient dinosaur footy stadia.

Rb

Wertz wrote:

They found ruins of archaeological interest on a world heritage site????
Oh man, I'm blown away, that was so unexpected, I mean who for a moment thought there'd be anything but stones and soil in that area?

Shame on the idiots in charge who let this road anywhere near that site, but on the other hand without the work the ruins would have remained undiscovered.

If this isn't reason enough to spend the extra to take the alternative route then I don't know what is...

Agreed.

Will be interesting to find out whats uncovered.

ODS

rb_ie wrote:

Agreed.

Shame on the current government for being responsible for such a mess. Railway lies open but unused to Navan. Current govts approach; provide a train for those stuck in traffic 4 hrs per day? No, simply use that as a justification. Shame. :eek: :mad:

psilocybe

Why is this not being discussed?
If this site is bulldozed Dick Roche be hung.
http://tarawatch.org/?p=365
http://www.indymedia.ie/article/82321
FFS

WindSock

it makes me feel sick in the stomach just to think about it. It'd be nice to build a road around the feckin thing so as the people that are going to be parked on the motorway in future will be able to get out and stretch their legs and marvel at the wonder of times past.

Dave!

How on earth could they miss that.....???

RoundyMooney

It's not the shattered remnants of the Bertiebowl, is it ?

Silverfish

Its about a mile or more from the Hill of tara itself. The find is actually on the verge of a wood, which was previously farmland. There was no signs of anything being there previously, apart from some markings on old ordinance survey maps saying 'site of monastery', on the same location as the find.

It was only uncovered when the heavy machinery came in to dig up the fields.

At the moment what it looks like is .... three football fields, pretty much, judging by what they have cordoned off. There are also some stone walls / perimeters. I couldn't actually get close enough to have a proper look as my mammy said I'd get dirty.

davyjose

Feral Mutant wrote:

Three times the size of a football field

Soccer or GAA???

csk

It was lucky this was found in time, hopefully the idiots in governemnt who allow this sort of cultural vandalism will be voted out. However I somehow doubt it.

Unpossible

TaraWatch wrote:

Yesterday the Tarawatch campaign claimed Mr Roche had issued draft directions to preserve the site ‘by record’ - in effect, noting where the site was before destroying it to allow roadworks to begin.

:eek: Is there really no other alternative?

Wertz

There is the alternative to re-route but there are financial implications, new land has to be aqcuired by CPO, new planning applications and all the usual red tape...which is ironic since they had to go through all that to take the original route which has now shown to have been a mistake.

I was watching a piece on this on the news last night and the attitude of motorists in the area was somewhat sickening. I realise they pay road tax and stamp duty and what have you and are entitled to snag free road use in the region, to get to work faster etc, but there was a pervasion of this "f*ck the past, progress is key" attitude that is so indicative of our capitalist aspirations.

Dick Roche should swing from the highest branch of a tree over looking the site.
Preserved by record my arse...

csk

Wertz wrote:

Dick Roche should swing from the highest branch of a tree over looking the site.
Preserved by record my arse...

QFT

Marksie

csk wrote:

It was lucky this was found in time, hopefully the idiots in governemnt who allow this sort of cultural vandalism will be voted out. However I somehow doubt it.

Do you remember wood quay in the 70's. The remains of a viking settlement. The council built their corpo offices on it. It was an international disgrace what happened at the time and is now.

It doesn't hold out much hope for the rest when he "boys" want their profits

A Random Walk

Wertz wrote:

I was watching a piece on this on the news last night and the attitude of motorists in the area was somewhat sickening. I realise they pay road tax and stamp duty and what have you and are entitled to snag free road use in the region, to get to work faster etc, but there was a pervasion of this "f*ck the past, progress is key" attitude that is so indicative of our capitalist aspirations.

I think the problem is that they are being presented with a false choice by the government. It is (a) do they want a motorway built or (b) Do they want to preserve historic locations. If you're stuck in traffic for 4 hours a day and never get to see your family you'll choose (a).

They aren't being told about choice (c) though, which is to build the motorway but reroute the damn thing. Which has been said repeatedly over and over again is the right thing to do.

csk

marksuttonie wrote:

Do you remember wood quay in the 70's. The remains of a viking settlement. The council built their corpo offices on it. It was an international disgrace what happened at the time and is now.

It doesn't hold out much hope for the rest when he "boys" want their profits

Actually I had the privilege of meeting Professor Howard Clarke who was part of the Friends of Medieval Dublin, the organisation set up to campaign against Wood Quay, awhile ago. He was talking about Wood Quay and saying the reason their campaign managed to work was because they captured th Public's imagination. It's something like that that is needed this time around although it might be too late.

It really is sick making though, and as important as Wood Quay was, Tara is far more important. IMO it is definitly the most important area in the country, in both archaeological and symbolic terms. That it should be protected goes without saying...except it seems in Ireland, its disgusting it really is.

funky penguin

I don't want to take from Tara's importance, as it is a national treasure, but Wood Quay is just as important. On an international scale, Wood Quay was a waterlogged site, and hence an Archaeological goldmine. But as you said, tis your opinion, so I'll say no more.

Personally, I never had any problem with the M50 going "near" the Hill of Tara. It is, in itself, Archaeology in the making. I'm going to reserve judgement on this new site until more information is released.

csk

funky penguin wrote:

I don't want to take from Tara's importance, as it is a national treasure, but Wood Quay is just as important. On an international scale, Wood Quay was a waterlogged site, and hence an Archaeological goldmine. But as you said, tis your opinion, so I'll say no more.

Personally, I never had any problem with the M50 going "near" the Hill of Tara. It is, in itself, Archaeology in the making. I'm going to reserve judgement on this new site until more information is released.

Hmmm...

Of course I was talking about the whole of the Tara/skyrne valley area AND in terms of both archaeological and symbolic value, afterall it could be described as the Cradle of Irish civilisation, the hill of Tara, newgrange, the battle of the Boyne site etc. etc. The M3 should be rereouted.

As someone else said, Dick Roche should swing from a tree. Thank God for small mercies though, and he will more than likely never be Taoiseach

DonJose

funky penguin wrote:

On an international scale, Wood Quay was a waterlogged site, and hence an Archaeological goldmine.

Agree with you 100%, around 20 years ago I was at a coin fair. A coin dealer told me that people would follow the dumper trucks carrying earth out of Wood Quay to where it was dumped and go through the earth with metal detectors. They found thousands of items worth god knows how much.

0ubliette

It depresses me that we live in such a country now, that we're willing to literally bulldoze our history and culture just so people can get to work a bit quicker. It actually makes me feel a bit ill. Preserved 'on record' me arse. This f*cking government should be ashamed of themselves, they've sold this countrys soul.

funky penguin

DonJose wrote:

Agree with you 100%, around 20 years ago I was at a coin fair. A coin dealer told me that people would follow the dumper trucks carrying earth out of Wood Quay to where it was dumped and go through the earth with metal detectors. They found thousands of items worth god knows how much.

Not to mention all the pieces of cloth and wood that the water preserved....but I don't want to digress.

Yesterday in the Times twas reported that the Meath Archaological and Historical Society have claimed this new enclosure is not the first monument to have been discovered:

"This is not the only national monument that has been discovered in this section of the motorway - it is simply the only one that the roads authorities have so recognised as such".

Under the National Mouments Act of 2004, naming a find a national monument or not is left entirely up to the developers on raod schemes.

There are no criteria set for determining a national monument, leaving us to only guess how many important finds have gone unchecked - if any at all.

csk

0ubliette wrote:

It depresses me that we live in such a country now, that we're willing to literally bulldoze our history and culture just so people can get to work a bit quicker. It actually makes me feel a bit ill. Preserved 'on record' me arse. This f*cking government should be ashamed of themselves, they've sold this countrys soul.

Yes it is a shame.

As someone else pointed out all the stuff found in Wood Quay, just imagine what could be destroyed in Tara.

Then there is the fact that Tara has huge International Significance compared with other sites in Ireland. Tara should be made a World Heritage Site, except our Government has yet to apply, I believe they want to build their motorway first. :rolleyes:

See Here

So what is the difference between Tara and Stonehenge? Both are seen as ancient sacred places of international significance. If anything Tara can lay claim to an even richer inheritence for unlike Stonehenge, Tara continued to hold a central role in Irelands heritage until well after Stonehenge had ceased to play a role in society - leaving behind a rich legacy of myths involving the miraculous feats of prospective High Kings and even Christian Saints.