2 on 1 sparring

TKD SC

Hello,

Just throwing this out there if anyone fancies discussing it...(the merits, if you do it in your club, ideas, etc.)

We did 2 on 1 sparring last night in class. Haven't actually done that for a while but remembered last night just what good training it is. The competition sparring rules go out the window, therefore as well as the usual punching kicking, you can pretty much do anything: push, pull, sweep, throw, takedown, in order to "stay alive"!

It's very good training both to get you better at regular sparring and for multiple oponent work. Although there is only two of them, you're in a small enough (ring size) space with 2 relatively compentent people coming after you and working in a team to try to corner you and get you. Obviously you have your own strategy of trying to keep them in line (ie., in eachother's way) and to usually initiate the attack against one of them, and move fairly quickly around in circles.

Anyway, add to the thread if you've any thoughts etc...

Thanks!

hardCopy

I did this a few years ago, although we used a fairly large area, the length of school hall. It was a great experience and I found that against multiple attackers it's more a matter of how long you can last than whether or not you can win.

I found when I did get caught by 1 guy the best thing to do was like you said, line them up, so that only 1 of them can strike you at a time, then drop 1 of them and move away as quick as you can.

As for 3 on 1, the only thing I found useful was to just keep away from them all for as long as possible.

buck65

Surely this is black belt level?
Or as a blue belt should I expect it soon?
In my class we sometimes practice with 2 people crowding in around you with kick pads and when you hiit one they step back , this is probably a precursor for 2 on 1

columok

In my class we sometimes practice with 2 people crowding in around you with kick pads and when you hiit one they step back , this is probably a precursor for 2 on 1

Sounds more like conditioning and movement training. Not really applicable for multiple attackers.

2 or more on 1 Grappling with intention of submission: tough but a good sprawl game and good wrestler can stay on their feet and get away

2 or more on 1 Grappling with intention of pinning: tougher because they're playing a sit on you game rather than a subs game. The sheer weight of two people is really hard to deal with.

2 or more with hits and grappling: Really hard. Makes you realise just how bang on the run away option is.

2 or more with hits and no grappling: Still tough. You keep moving away and trying to keep em obstructing each other. Easier said than done especially when you're trying to watch your back, avoid the strikes, counter and not bump into stuff.

dlofnep

buck65 wrote:

Surely this is black belt level?

Simluating multiple attackers if aimed for self defense should be white belt level. it's practical experience if it's sparring. I don't see why anyone would need a black belt to spar. Seems silly.

Baggio...

Hey guys,

Myself and Jon were over at one of Lee Morrison's Work Shops in Southampton at the weekend (which was class btw).

But we did an interesting drill - where you were stuck in a corner, and three guys were punching you (protection is worn of course). The concept is that you have been ambushed, but can't fight your way out. Your hands are used for covering your head, so you can't really use them for punching, etc. only defense.

Obviously hands strikes are always preferred, but for that type of ambush situation, kicks and stomps could be used. We used low line powerful kicks (old style street Savate) and stomps. The drill lasted about 10 secs. You can take it to whatever level you are comfortable with. But it's a really good way to get used to taking a bit of contact by multiple opponents. I ended up with quite a few bumps and bruises...But it was very cool drill.

You could always do something at 20% power for example, just to start off.

Cheers,

Rob.

kravist

dlofnep wrote:

Simluating multiple attackers if aimed for self defense should be white belt level. it's practical experience if it's sparring. I don't see why anyone would need a black belt to spar. Seems silly.

I couldn't agree more! Such drills from an integral part of Krav Maga (Self Defence) training and should be started as soon as possible! The reality is that out on the streets, if a fight is inevitable, a "Fair Fight" (ie. 1 on 1) is the best you can hope for.

TKD SC

Originally Posted by buck65
Surely this is black belt level?

In relation to our gradings it does only first appear at the black belt gradings. However, it can and should appear way before that level in class. For example last night everyone had a go at the 2 on 1 (except for a couple of juniors who have only been there a few weeks!). Their levels ranged from yellow belt to black belt and it was mixed around with who was against who.

Everyone really enjoyed it (except the guy I kneed in the groin!) and if someone was getting totally pummelled the instructor would call a stop and then re-start for their remaining time. Each "spar" lasted 30 sec's. It is a good realisation of how tough it is if there are multiple opponents. I went twice. First time I actually did well, lined them up nicely and kept out of trouble. But 2nd time, they got me and I would have been a gonner!

Baggio, I like that idea of 3 against 1 in a corner - must suggest we try that one out next!

Valmont

just had a funny thought, imagine 2 on 1 sub wrestling, it would be hilarious!

Mark Hamill

Valmont wrote:

just had a funny thought, imagine 2 on 1 sub wrestling, it would be hilarious!

A while ago we had team sub wrestling in training with 6 on 6 rolling. If someone tapped out then you would have 6 on 5 and so on. It ended up at one stage with me by myself versus the other team, with one on my stomach, one sitting on my legs, one on each arm, one choking me and the other just looking cause their was no more space. That was fun

cletus

the only time i saw "multiple opponents" sparring, the two opponents were more or less lining up like bad guys in a film, not attacking while the guy on his own was engaging one of them, rather than both rushing him, and giving him digs at the same time.

As somebody above said, more like conditioning exercise, like doing 3 mins of sparing with one guy, then a fresh guy coming in with no break.

Roper

Valmont wrote:

just had a funny thought, imagine 2 on 1 sub wrestling, it would be hilarious!

We do tag team the odd time, actually we haven't done that in ages I'm doing it on Friday!

DITTKD

buck65 wrote:

Surely this is black belt level?
Or as a blue belt should I expect it soon?
In my class we sometimes practice with 2 people crowding in around you with kick pads and when you hiit one they step back , this is probably a precursor for 2 on 1

We've done this too. It's mostly a stamina test, and afterwards the instructors might use it to illustrate that running away is your best option on the street. Y’know, it makes us realise that fancy kicks and that aren’t much use in real life, and they’re hard to do when there’s people jumping on you slapping you about the head.
I’d like to do more of it myself.

hardCopy

buck65 wrote:

Surely this is black belt level?
Or as a blue belt should I expect it soon?
In my class we sometimes practice with 2 people crowding in around you with kick pads and when you hiit one they step back , this is probably a precursor for 2 on 1

When I trained Shorin Ryu I did 2-on-1 and 3-on-1 free sparring as part of my 2nd Yellow Tip grading.

It was open ended in that I didn't have to win or survive for a certain amount of time. It was more a test of composure to see if I had the stamina or will to keep going and not get frustrated by the stacked odds.

pma-ire

It can be a bit of a laugh

But the one thing about this and self defence is that if you are faced with 2 people attacking you while stuck in a corner the best thing you can do is smack the one closest to you really hard and try to leg it! Also if you do hit someone really hard you may well drop them and they will not keep coming back to take another pop at you while your trying to get away or deal with the other person.

ColinJennings

I regularly have to do 2-1 and 3-1 sparring. Two on one becomes easy if you concentrate on the further away opponent and stay really close to the closer opponent.

I find it useful to get out of the TKD comfort zone as you need to be incredibly close and you have no time to react to their attacks and simply react instinctively. Another thing that gives you a breather is to push one of their kicks in the direction of the other person. That way you have removed both from the fight and can counter attack.

I've yet to figure out how to do three on one properly as neither of the two above techniques work if the two go in opposite directions, but it is useful to feel horrible as the techniques come in thick and fast.

Black Swan

2 on 1? We do this in SD. Normally two lower belts on one higher belt. Provides practice for higher belt, as our purpose is not to train 2 guys to jump one!

Baggio...

kravist wrote:

I couldn't agree more! Such drills from an integral part of Krav Maga (Self Defence) training and should be started as soon as possible!

Absolutely! You can always start off at a semi-contact level (for the white belts/beginners). The unfortunate reality is, that you will probably be facing multiple opponents on the street - so it's essential to simulate this in your training.

paxo

I have done 2 0n 1 sparring a lot in Krav and also in Systema and my private training. We play with it a bit in that 1 attacker may punch and kick while the other tries to grab or choke. Sometimes one or both attackers will produce a knife or other weapons mid fight. Sometime we start 1 on 1 and others may jump in on either side as the fight progresses. There are many variations to try out.
We do not use it as a drill to learn to beat 2 or more attacker but rather to improve awareness, flexibility, tactics and strategy etc. I find it very usefull for sharpening technique as you rapidly learn that if you dont fire off effective shots you get hit or taken down.
It is also a good drill to use to counter tunnel vision. I have gone 1 on 1 with good solid contact with attacker 1 when attacker no 2 has jumped in and grabbed me in a bear hug while I was dealing with him attacker no 1 has hit me 4 or 5 time before I realised that he was now holding a training knife in his hand. That was a good learning moment.
Other times we drop the contact and play with it a bit i.e recreate scenarios from our experience and dry run potential responses.
Its all good
Paxo

Pride Fighter

In kenpo I have been 2 on 1 sparring since I was a white belt. When you do it in a club it is only a matter of staying alive when you are facing 2 brown or black belts but this gives you a great martial education. For the street it is great as you will never fight people as good as the ones in your club and therfore helps one win such a situation. I am surprised that some styles dont do this. Ask your instructor to do it. Variety in training prepares you for anything.

Dragan

Pride Fighter wrote:

For the street it is great as you will never fight people as good as the ones in your club and therfore helps one win such a situation.

You'd think so wouldn't you?

To be honest you comment smacks of a lack of "real world" experience.

Pride Fighter

Dragan wrote:

To be honest you comment smacks of a lack of "real world" experience.

You have no idea how much real world experience I have. I am from the south inner city and have been in many fights. Ever since I became a doorman 3 years ago I have found that 2 or 3 on 1 sparring has helped me against multiple attackers.

Nothingcompares

Pride Fighter wrote:

You have no idea how much real world experience I have. I am from the south inner city and have been in many fights. Ever since I became a doorman 3 years ago I have found that 2 or 3 on 1 sparring has helped me against multiple attackers.

lol. tough guy.

Pride Fighter

I am a teddy bear really.

Nothingcompares

You need some quiet time teddy bear, you post too much, you're worse than me.