spying on somebody claiming off me

easyontheeye

ok long story short, have a feeling someone i had an accident with is claiming to be out of work with whiplash for 9 months now is acting the boll*x. they say they cant do housework, shop, sit for longer than an hour without pain.
i cannot believe this...it was a "minor crash" i mean my car only had paint damage and theirs!

his out of earnings alone are 80k so far with 8 specialists bills. i may as well have wrote both cars off, my premium will go through the roof, im thinking of spying on them, would the insurance company use the evidence if i could get it?

Rudolph Claus

Just send some nice friends around to beat the cnut up and give him some real injuries he wont be able to claim for.
Have you told your insurance company of your suspicions or contacted the insurance fraud thing?

Seth Brundle

Who told you that they can't do these things? If this is going through your insurance then I would suggest that you just get on with your life!
There is no law (AFAIK) against watching someone as long as you are not harassing them.
You should ask this in the legal forum though.
As for your insurance company using the information - it depends on what the evidence is and how you got it! You would need to ask them though.

easyontheeye

i got the report from his personal injuries assesment board, it has everything in it about him, to be honest considering the scale of the accident i find it very VERY hard to believe hes just sat on his arse for the last 9 months. I cant accept that. its bugging me because its so minor yet its gonna cost a fortune and my premium will be loaded

Seth Brundle

If it went through your insurance company then your insurance will be loaded irrespective of what the other party claimed for!

easyontheeye

kbannon wrote:

If it went through your insurance company then your insurance will be loaded irrespective of what the other party claimed for!

you mean the cost of the claim doesnt reflect the loading?

mikemac

80k in 9 months:eek: I'd love this guys salary, what does he do out of interest? Is he a taxi driver?:p

I've seen this situation before. Back in 2001/2002, you may remember compo culture ruled and insurance was sky high.

Our business lecturer in college was telling of loads of claims against the college. Examples where GAA players who slipped on the college dressing room floor but still played football for their clubs at weekends but claimed they couldn't play for the college do to terrible pain and suffering and had claims pending against the college.

The car park was also plastered in CCTV cameras as people kept "tripping" down steps.

I say go for it.
Now try to catch the lad doing gymnastics in the local sports hall

Rudolph Claus

If this is going through your insurance then I would suggest that you just get on with your life!

While we all pay increased premiums so that knacker can skam over 80grand. Yeah, sure lets have a wee whip around for him too, see if we can drum up some loose change.

easyontheeye

lads im telling ya it was a tiny accident, i dont want to reveal too much infor about him/her but everyone i know cannot believe it...even my insurance company admitted that this guy is one in a million, he has a good job hence the earnings

DeBeere

Sounds quite unbelievable...

Maybe spending a little bit on hiring a Private Investigator? Would save you the time and hassle, plus they have the experience.

Did a search on google and turned up two sites:
http://www.cda121.com/
http://www.eii.ie/

Just a thought!

easyontheeye

im annoyed with the insurance company letting it go on for so long but you cant prove/disprove whiplash!

FX Meister

easyontheeye wrote:

he has a good job hence the earnings

What kind of good job can he have that he just takes time off so he can scam money out of you?

Tipsy Mac

If you did €2 worth of damage or €2million it makes no difference, once you go through the insurance you just loose the no claims bonus, no extra loading for super claims. It's the insurance companies job to check the validity of a claim, not yours, let them handle it.

mike65

Insurance companies don't really care too much about payouts, after all they'll get the cash back from all of us and prooving a claim is dubious means extra work for them.

Mike.

easyontheeye

FX Meister wrote:

What kind of good job can he have that he just takes time off so he can scam money out of you?

well i dunno, its pathetic if you ask me i dont know how he can get away with it. he says he cant even sit at a computer for more than 1 hour!!

Rudolph Claus

Can you not prove that the crash was insufficient to cause whiplash, though? Even if you cant prove/disprove the actual injury of whiplash itself.

horgan_p

leave it to the insurance company. tell them the situation, trust me theyll be looking for any way out of paying the guy.doin it yourself can only lead to hot water.

insurance companies employ (certainly used to) people for this kind of thing.

easyontheeye

horgan_p wrote:

leave it to the insurance company. tell them the situation, trust me theyll be looking for any way out of paying the guy.doin it yourself can only lead to hot water.

insurance companies employ (certainly used to) people for this kind of thing.

i get the impression they aint doing anything about it ... ahh well ill think about wether or not to take out the video camera

dubtom

The insurance company, if they uspect he's taking the piss will investigate. All it would take is a picture of him swinging a golf club or up aladder for him to lose the claim.They have the resources to find out these things. As was said leave it to them, if your pointing your camera at him and he see's you it could put him on his guard.At the end of the day even if he only gets a grand or a million in court it won't affect your NCB any differently,i inderstand the frustration though, nothing worse than suspecting someones taking the piss.

Kristopherus

You are most unfortunate, and your insurance co will be worse than useless. Do you know that they can settle the claim without even telling you what they've done. As for you claimant, I hope he rots in hell !!

fatboypee

Same thing happened to me a few years back, living in the UK at the time, over here for the week, minor crash, next thing I hear from my insurance co (based in the north) is they're settling the claim to the tune of 80k sterling.

Bent wing on my car, girl who hit me (yes, hit me, but it appears the dirt track she was on was the major road and the two lane byeway I was on was a junction (no road markings, just a gravel swish!)), claimed total write-off, whip-lash, hospitalisation for two weeks, rental car afterwards and out-of work expenses for 6 months.

The insurance company settled without questioning ANY of it. :mad:

the hunter

i have a who received an injury in work and was claiming
when the case went to court the companys insurance company produced pictures of my friend going about daily chores even had a pic of the curtains being opened in the morning ????
so if the insurance company think something fishy is going they might get them checked out ???

Countryripple

I know someone going through the exact same thing as the OP at the moment. Its a scary thing when you get the letter from the Personal Injuries Assement Board and read through it. Minor crash, rang gardai, said if no one injured come down the station, which they both did cos they were both ok.

Can I just ask a question. Regardless of what the insurance company are going to pay out, will this mean that my friend will be landed with a huge bill? He has since changed insurance companies and when he did this he had no outstanding claims as this one had been settled for the damage to the car. How will this work out now that he is no longer with this insurer?

Thanks

smash

so they're claiming 80k for 9 months off work... what car were they driving?

upsfan

I've been on the other side of this as a claimant as have two workmates of mine. My experience is that even when the case is cut and dried (other party 100% liable, injury - fracture - unambiguous, not claiming ANY loss of earnings etc) the insurance company will still try to screw the claimant in negotiations and try to get the claim amount reduced. And of course in my case, the guy who hit me initially thought it was minor, no injuries etc (as indeed did I) but x-rays tend not to lie.

Similar experience with the two workmates, again very clear cases with regard to both and the insurance co will use whatever tactics they can to get out of paying or to reduce the award, some of which are plain unethical. Your insurance co may not consult you much on the matter, (after all, not really your business, they are the ones that are paying) but it's a falsehood to think they just roll over, they honestly don't.

easyontheeye

steve06 wrote:

so they're claiming 80k for 9 months off work... what car were they driving?

i wont say but it was a higher end car... merc s class, bmw 5 series range. it was a solid car

easyontheeye

Countryripple wrote:

I know someone going through the exact same thing as the OP at the moment. Its a scary thing when you get the letter from the Personal Injuries Assement Board and read through it. Minor crash, rang gardai, said if no one injured come down the station, which they both did cos they were both ok.

Can I just ask a question. Regardless of what the insurance company are going to pay out, will this mean that my friend will be landed with a huge bill? He has since changed insurance companies and when he did this he had no outstanding claims as this one had been settled for the damage to the car. How will this work out now that he is no longer with this insurer?

Thanks

did he pay the damages for the car out of his own pocket? as far as i know he can still go through a personal claim up to 12 months after...i think?!

easyontheeye

im gonna get my voodoo doll out! the more i think about it the mored P*SSED i am! karma!!

upsfan

I dunno, I'm somewhat skeptical here that someone earning ~€100k+/year driving an S-Class has jacked in his job to try to scam an insurance company. You need to consider that just MAYBE the guy actually was injured - you don't seem to have even considered that for a moment.

Countryripple

nope. damages went throught the insurance. and was marked down as claim settled on a letter he later received. then w few years after, he changed insurance companies. then this comes about, but it is the old insurers who are dealing with it. just wondering how things like this pan out. its pretty stressful!!!

easyontheeye

upsfan wrote:

I dunno, I'm somewhat skeptical here that someone earning ~€100k+/year driving an S-Class has jacked in his job to try to scam an insurance company. You need to consider that just MAYBE the guy actually was injured - you don't seem to have even considered that for a moment.

put it this way hes not a ceo and he is in the building trade (not a labourer). i have considered it but when i read the report on the things he says he can no longer do, i got a sudden stench of horse sh*t.

upsfan

easyontheeye wrote:

put it this way hes not a ceo and he is in the building trade (not a labourer). i have considered it but when i read the report on the things he says he can no longer do, i got a sudden stench of horse sh*t.

Sure, you may well be right, I just see this often enough- the automatic presumption that all claims are fraudulent and that insurance companies just roll over. Neither of these are true.

Historically I would have thought the legal and (to a lesser degree) medical _report writing_ (as opposed to treatment) costs are more of a contributor to the high cost of insurance than fraud. (Bad driving and excessive insurance co profit in a limited market also helps.) Fraudulent claims exist but I do think they are somewhat of a bogeyman invented by the industry to divert attention.

Which is why the PIAB is such a good idea for everyone concerned (except lawyers of course.)

...the Personal Injuries Assessment Board (PIAB) delivers the same level of compensation to accident victims but three times faster and through a delivery system which is four times cheaper than the old litigation route. (ConsumerConnect)

kmick

I know a guy who worked for a Private Investigator for a summer and spent all his time following around exactly the class of people you describe so yes you can hire a PI or get a long lens and do the work yourself. All you have to do is catch him liftling shopping into a car or playing football and its all over.

Keith C

Nuttzy wrote:

While we all pay increased premiums so that knacker can skam over 80grand. Yeah, sure lets have a wee whip around for him too, see if we can drum up some loose change.

How much has your insurance gone up each year over the last 3 years??

zuutroy

This thread reminds of Paths to Freedom. The OP will be up a tree with his night vision goggles before ya know it!

msdurden

i wudnt think twice about spyin on sum cnut like that.. if they are serious then they won't mind you having proof.

You can rent a camera with a long lens in Cons cameras at the back of Brown Thomas

easyontheeye

easyontheeye wrote:

im annoyed with the insurance company letting it go on for so long but you cant prove/disprove whiplash!

My mam is physio she reckons any specialist or physio worth their salt can spot a faker.

The problem is they won't for liability reasons. And its difficult to proove they havn't whiplash wheras its very easy to present the symptoms of whiplash.

pow wow

Insurance companies do use private investigators but in my experience it's only for workplace injuries or public liability. I used to work in insurance and we had PIs working for us regularly, never for motor though.

All you can do is try protesting to your insurer - I suspect it will fall on deaf ears as 80k is almost small change to them, but you never know - if you get a claims handler worth their salt and looking to meet their target for lowering payouts you might get lucky.

SoBe

why you bother going through all this and possibly get into trouble?

he isnt sueing you,he is sueing your insurance company.

i know its a ****ty thing to do but unfortunatly this world is full of people like that,always out to make a quick buck.raise the issue with the insurance company and leave it at that.

all you can do is drive more carefully and be more aware of possibilities that miight arise on the road ahead so you wont be in this situation again.

but my advice is definatly dont go down the spying road it will only end in tears.

DarkJager

Surely its better if you follow your instincts and take a closer look at what he's doing. The bastard is obviously laughing all the way to the bank now. If you catch him doing something that he says he can't, that smug smile will be wiped off his face and he'll be caught by the balls for fraud. Sounds like the crash wasn't major and I've never heard of someone recovering for 9 months after a bit of paint damage.

Go for it.

Seth Brundle

Given that the 'victim' is a lying scumbag I would presume that if they find out that you are 'investigating' them they will subsequently claim that this has been ongoing and sue for harassment or even press for criminal charges against you.
I said get on with your life because earlier because you will more than likely be just wasting your time and at worst end up in deep trouble.

Santa Claus

I remember a few years ago a Dublin corporation bin lorry ran into the back of my neighbours car when she was stopped at traffic lights.
The corpo or their insurance company actually had a private investigator trail her for a week to make sure her whiplash claim was genuine (that's a several ton bin lorry hitting the back of your car...If all you got was whiplash you'd be lucky).

The thing eventually got settled in court for around 20k and 6 or 7 years on she still has to get physio in winter for the pain.

I had an accident 5 years ago where a car 2 cars ahead of me jammed on and i went into the back of the car in front (who had already gone into the back of 1st car). I rang the driver afterwards to see if she was OK and her mother said that herself and her 2 friends were fine. By co-incidence about a month later I met all 3 occupants of the car at a nightclub and chatted to them for a while. When I asked the insurance company the following year how much the total claim came to they mentioned to me that there was a 42k personal injury bill paid. I was told it was 1 of the passengers and it really pissed me off as on both occasions I'd had contact with driver/passengers they were all fine.

Seth Brundle

By and large people will lie!
A friend knocked someone down when they ran out in front of him. I met her and her son in the hospital and they described the incident.
By the time the claim went in it appeared that my mate had swerved his bike to aim straight for her!

Countryripple

Stories like this are so frustrating. It really makes my blood boil!!! I have come across so many of them over the years. I just hope that people who are money grabbing scammers get what they deserve in the long run for their spiels of lies!!:mad:

Seth Brundle

Forget about it - its bad money and karma will ensure that they get their due rewards!

Fey!

kbannon wrote:

Forget about it - its bad money and karma will ensure that they get their due rewards!

Karma NEVER gets these people. But if you or I tried a scam like that... :mad:

Countryripple

True.........its us good people who never get the luck!!

Altreab

Fey! wrote:

Karma NEVER gets these people. But if you or I tried a scam like that... :mad:

Oh Karma gets everyone .....its just that we dont care when THOSE type get theres

redman

OP - It will be hard but get your mind onto something else.
Leave it with your insurance firm.
This is the society we live in and you need to think of your own health mentally at least.

Trust in the Karma, what goes around comes around.