anyone suffer with back pain???

bored and tired

hi just wondering if anyone suffers with long term -cronic back pain that wants to chat - in general about effects, outlook, and coping skills as well as various forms of treatments that you have used. have been suffering with back pain since car crash in August with slow and unsettling progress.

WindSock

There is a Long Term Illness Forum somewhere here, maybe you could find more responses on that?

Steyr

Swimming is great for it IMO.

Gin Promotions

I have suffered on and off for 10 years, went to Chiropractor 10 years ago and that was great, but last year put back out again, went to another chiropractor and I am convinced he made me worse maybe to keep me coming back, have heard of this happening, ended up going to sports physio and he did more in 1 session than chiro did in many. Be careful who you go to

The Sweeper

On chiropractors - my mother in law did her back in last year. She is very fit, having done karate for decades. Apparently she damaged vertebrae years ago, but her back muscles were so well developed they helped support her spinal column and she barely noticed the trouble.

She started having problems with it and went to a chiropractor, who manipulated her spine without having taken any x-rays first. He caused chaos. She ended up nearly crippled within a couple of days of seeing him. Apparently over the years her vertebrae had developed bony spurs and all sorts of odd shapes due to being out of position. By 'correcting' her spinal position, he disturbed all of that.

She was so bad she was bed-bound. She drove herself to Vincents one day, literally crawling into the A&E departmentin tears with the pain, and they sent her on her way and said they could do nothing for her. An MRI revealed the extent of the damage and the consultant suggested they remove things and put in rods and plates and all sorts or she'd never walk again.

Loathe to have her movement so restricted, she went back to the chiropractor who sheepishly referred her on to a physiotherapist-chiropractor-chap.

He had her out of bed and back on her feet in a week. I think he worked out some system with her of using her exercise discipline and existing muscle structure to make something of a return to her previous state - injured but making up for it - and she stuck with him over a number of weeks to get back to a fit state.

She's had some twinges since, but considering they were suggesting major surgery, pins and plates, I think she's doing pretty damn well!

Jo King

I have used the methods espoused by Dr. Paul Sherwood in his book "The back and Beyond" for about 10 years. I came across the book when i had severe trouble with Sciatica and other chronic lower back pain. I have used a mix of physiotherapy and chiropractic. Within two weeks of using the Sherwood methods my symptoms abated markedly and I have never had sciatica again. I get the occasional problem but nothing like as bad or as long lasting as before.

LegacyUser

'If physio or book exercises alleviate the condition it can't have been chronic within the medical definition to start with. Severe debilitating spinal conditions require radical treatment and its very offensive to sufferers of same to listen to such crap being spouted.

What about you op? what type of treatment have you had? Or what injury specifically did you sustain?'

galah

It really depends what sort of back pain you have - have you had tests done (X-Ray, MRI, etc?)

I've got a long history of back pain (also started with a car crash 10 years ago) and find that Osteopathy works very well (it's gentler and more balanced than Chiropractics) - but it really depends on what's wrong with you in the first place...

Coping? Well, there's medication...

Swimming is great if it does not cause you trouble (I, for example, can't do breast stroke because it hurts my neck too much...).

Try light exercise, stretches, and yoga if you can...

Also posture is important of your back causes you trouble at work - always try and keep the back straight!

b3t4

Thankfully I have never suffered with back pain but I have heard that pilates and MBT shoes are very effective when it comes to back pain. Both work on your posture.

Best of luck,
A

Beruthiel

bored and tired wrote:

hi just wondering if anyone suffers with long term

It's important to know exactly what kind of back pain you suffer from before you can decide on how to work with it.
The muscles went in my lower back last september, I was in spasm's of pain that I won't forget too soon.
I went to a physio, she got rid of the spasm's straight away. However, to build the muscles back up again took months of daily back exercises and daily walks (which I still do).
I had weekly sessions with the physio in the beginning, since after christmas, I did monthly sessions and only finished with her last month. She did great work, but knowing I have a problem means constant exercise if I wish to keep it in good order.

d-redser

I also was in a car crash last August and ever since I have been in agony with my lower back, my neck and my left arm.:(

I have spent so much going to the doc's just to get prescription after prescription for anti-inflammatories. Was sent for spinal xrays but came back ok. Was never sent for a MRI, was told I didnt need one.

I have gone to three different physio's - one made me kneel down and pressed on my back, couldnt walk for 2 weeks after that. Went to another one and was charged €150 for 20mins work. The third one gave me breathing exercises?????

Now I dont have the money to go to a physio or a doc, my doc won't refer me to a public physio and I am still in pain. I have put on over 2 stone in weight and cannot exercise, cant even swim as its so painful.

I dont know what to do now... If anyone has any advice please let me know!

galah

go and see an osteopath. And try and get an MRI scan done, just to see how much damage there actually is!

Pilates is a good method of strenghtening your body, too - but you have to be able to move before you start...;-)

d-redser

galah wrote:

go and see an osteopath. And try and get an MRI scan done, just to see how much damage there actually is!

Pilates is a good method of strenghtening your body, too - but you have to be able to move before you start...;-)

Thats the thing, I have asked my doc to send me for an MRI but he is very reluctant for whatever reason. I have to stick with this doc as my claim is still going through and I also have feck all money in general now.

How much do osteopath's charge?

Beruthiel

d-redser wrote:

I have gone to three different physio's - one made me kneel down and pressed on my back, couldnt walk for 2 weeks after that. Went to another one and was charged €150 for 20mins work. The third one gave me breathing exercises?????

€150 is crazy money.
My physio charges €45 for 45 mins work.
15 mins of gentle back massage.
15 mins ultra sound (stimulates the muscle)
15 mins of those little electric current pads (stimulates the muscle)
Worked a treat for me.

She suggested that if this ever happened to me I should get an MRI because I was so bad when it first happened. I suggest you do the same as soon as you can if nobody can help you.

galah

d-redser wrote:

Thats the thing, I have asked my doc to send me for an MRI but he is very reluctant for whatever reason. I have to stick with this doc as my claim is still going through and I also have feck all money in general now.

How much do osteopath's charge?

Well, my osteopath charges 50 Euros an hour...
I think you should really, really push for an MRI scan - have you got private health insurance?

Marksie

Beruthiel wrote:

€150 is crazy money.
My physio charges €45 for 45 mins work.
15 mins of gentle back massage.
15 mins ultra sound (stimulates the muscle)
15 mins of those little electric current pads (stimulates the muscle)
Worked a treat for me.

She suggested that if this ever happened to me I should get an MRI because I was so bad when it first happened. I suggest you do the same as soon as you can if nobody can help you.

I am looking for a good chirpracter as well, it is chronic but not debilitating and my own fault for not getting it seen to.

I was being massaged and the masseur said, do you have pain here.. your spine goes in! and i have much lower back pain I hear it click in the morning.

Damn it i am so fecking stubborn at times about not giving in to pain its is self defeating.

Beruthiel

marksuttonie wrote:

Damn it i am so fecking stubborn at times about not giving in to pain its is self defeating.

I ignored mine for so long because it didn't stop me getting on with life, If I had paid attention to it I wouldn't have been out of work for a month when it went.
I suggest you sort it.
PM me if you want the Physio's number, she is in Celbridge so you could pop in on the way home.

bored and tired

d-redser wrote:

I also was in a car crash last August and ever since I have been in agony with my lower back, my neck and my left arm.:(

I have spent so much going to the doc's just to get prescription after prescription for anti-inflammatories. Was sent for spinal xrays but came back ok. Was never sent for a MRI, was told I didnt need one.

my doc won't refer me to a public physio and I am still in pain.

HI all op back!!, my crash was in August as well, was taken to hospital and had x-rays, few days later developed facial paralysis (temporary) and was taken back to hospital for more x-rays, but doc says i dont need mri. RE your doc not sending you for public physio. i started my public phsio almost straight away and went until january, my doc is so supportive it is unbeleivable, perhaps approach a new doc and see what he says.

i started with anti inflammeterys, pain killers and valium, then had physio, then accupuncture. i have only tollerated 2 massages but when less tender will be going for more. my accupuncturist did needles and cupping, most of the time, and i found that more beneficial than needles on their own, he also had a heat lamp, funny smelling stuff to burn on the needles, chinese oil blend that he massaged in and a electro machine that he could attatch to needles, so every week was a bit different, he called in a chiropractor on my last visit who worked out of same clinic. I didnt like the exam so decided not to leave him manipulate me. swimming is good, but i damaged pelvis as well so most i can do is about 4 lengths and then i bob about and float for a while as otherwise i fear people would start to think im going there for a bath!!!.

i am going to back clinic in hospital which is really good, i was taught exactly how to do the exercises for maximum benefit with little risk of injury from incorrect method,

i was thinking of mbt's but 200 is a lot when i have been out of work since august, going to be applying for med card soon as cant afford to keep forking out for perscriptions, although doc again has been brilliant in that he doesnt charge for every visit, but still - im a source of constant income for him.,

most annoying part is when people i know say, oh i know about back pain, my back gets really sore when i do this or that, i know what back pain is, and because im a mother i know a lot of people with kids so it is hard to talk to them about back pain when i want to kill them for being able to bend down and pick there child up, as i havent been able to do that, and at the rate im going wont be able to for a long time yet, never mind having the child we were planning on trying for this year which has been put on permanent hold.

Also, sciatica is recurring so i get funny looks from people on my bad days, its a depilitating condition in that nothing is wrong with me, i had no broken bones, splints casts bandages or anything that i could point to and say oh thats sore, but just an inability to move, muscles in complete spasm and pain everywhere. my mother coined a wonderful phrase when describing me to her friends. she says i have a pain from my pole to my hole.

would love to be able to pick daughter up and give her a big hug, throw her over my shoulders and piggy back ride her down the fields in a little house in the prairie type setting, but closest i get to that is my dreams.

LegacyUser

'try taking up pilates its great for building strength in your core areas and helps people with bad backs. Be careful with swimming stick to front crawl and back crawl. Breaststroke and butterfly wont be the best. Also make sure your stroke is good for instance swimming with your head up is bad for your back.'

bored and tired

dsfq34 wrote:

'try taking up pilates its great for building strength in your core areas and helps people with bad backs. Be careful with swimming stick to front crawl and back crawl. Breaststroke and butterfly wont be the best. Also make sure your stroke is good for instance swimming with your head up is bad for your back.'

dsfq im not really sure what instance swimming means, i cant do breastroke or butterfly as it hurts my pelvis, swimming backwards is easiest, but i have major trouble swimming straight ahead as i would never have been great on the old technique anyway, and find turning my head to breath tiring, i tend to get jaded after about 4 lengths, where as before crash i was doing 25 to 30. thanks,

Dori Duz

bored and tired wrote:

i cant do breastroke or butterfly as it hurts my pelvis, swimming backwards is easiest, but i have major trouble swimming straight ahead as i would never have been great on the old technique anyway, and find turning my head to breath tiring,

At the edge of the pool lie on your back and hold onto the bar. Then kick your legs. You will find this less straining. Do it in intervals, taking regular breaks.
If you want to do it lying on your stomach, make sure your head is in the water as lifting our head out of the water will put a strain on your neck and shoulders.
My Mam can't swim but I do these exercises with her and she finds them helpful.

I'm very suprised at all of you who haven't had MRI scans. Many problems with disks do not show up on x-rays. MRI scans are scary and daunting, but it's nice to know what's wrong with you!

Also, be very wary of chiropractors. They are not doctors. They often do more harm than good. Mam and I see a spine, sport and limb injury doctor based in Mullingar. He's excellent and doesn't charge a fortune, about 50 euro an hour, I think. It's not a case where you have to see him regularly, either. If I slip a disk (or a few!) onto a nerve, he manipulates my back, NEVER ROUGHLY, and uses acupuncture if muscles are also effected and acupuncture, which I get great relief from. PM me if anyone wants details about him.

My back problems are basically to do with my disks and a curve in my spine. It's o.k. now, I'm really careful and do all the right exercises. I'm only 18 and developed symptoms when I was 14. My Mam has the same problem. Hers is chronic. I lead an active life but it's scary because I look at Mam and know I'm probably going to be like her, which is really scary. I love her, but looking after her when its really bad and she's on some crazy morphine derivative is so difficult.

bored and tired

thanks for that. i will try it out in the pool. i wish you and your mum all the best in your fight against illness. I hope that you have some help in looking after your mam, especially for when you are in pain yourself, best wishes,

Mrs. MacGyver

bored and tired wrote:

hi just wondering if anyone suffers with long term -cronic back pain that wants to chat - in general about effects, outlook, and coping skills as well as various forms of treatments that you have used. have been suffering with back pain since car crash in August with slow and unsettling progress.

I broke a bone in my lower back in a Car Crash in Jan 2006 and it gets very sore / uncomfortable if I sit for long periods. I usually walk around and if i have to sit i put a hot waterbottle behind it for pain relief. I went for hydrotherapy which was the best thing for it. I swim a bit or sit in the jacuzzi in my local leisure centre and it seems to loosen out the tight muscles.

I agree with Dori, keep away from chiropractors. Hydro exercises would benefit as Dori descrbed above.

Marksie

Dori Duz wrote:

Also, be very wary of chiropractors. They are not doctors. They often do more harm than good. Mam and I see a spine, sport and limb injury doctor based in Mullingar. He's excellent and doesn't charge a fortune, about 50 euro an hour, I think. It's not a case where you have to see him regularly, either.

My chiropractor started out because of his sons playing sports. He certainly sorted my problems out and didn't insist on repeated visits. Again he came recommended by word of mouth and he wasn't expensive.

bored and tired

marksuttonie wrote:

My chiropractor started out because of his sons playing sports. He certainly sorted my problems out and didn't insist on repeated visits. Again he came recommended by word of mouth and he wasn't expensive.

mark, where abouts do you live, im not keen on chiropractor, but if your in or around south east then maybe give him a shout for discussion, fed up to the eye teeth at this stage so would proberably leave sumo wrestler walk on my back if i really beleived it was a magic cure.

speaking of which, anyone heard of this place in wicklow/wexford, where you spend some time in freezers and your "CURED":rolleyes: afterwards, personally the cold is the worst thing for me, so i think i might have forgotten about my back pain for a week while worrying about the pain in my pocket, but again, someone outthere might have tried it and is able to do summersaults now!!!:D

Patricide

My lower back pain has been crippleing me since i was about 15 (im 18 now)

I know im only a youngun but god its some bad pain, it comes and goes every while with nothing i can think of thats agriviating it and sometimes its like i feel like i need to pop somthing in my back but i cant crack my back.

Went to a doctor there who said that he couldnt feel anything but if it continues on to come back in a few months for an x ray. Problem is with the leaving i wont have time till mid june.. thank god its only a few weeks away!!

bored and tired

Patricide wrote:

Went to a doctor there who said that he couldnt feel anything but if it continues on to come back in a few months for an x ray. Problem is with the leaving i wont have time till mid june.. thank god its only a few weeks away!!

did your doc give you anything for the pain. did you go in with a parent (even though 18) no offence meant, but docs can sometimes take more hede of mam and dad being worried than teenager sitting leaving cert,

i dont know if you have trouble sitting, but try hot water bottle during the exams, or microwaveable cushions. Explain your situation to school -again with parents present, you could ask that the people who bring in the tea and coffee to the "watchers" could microwave the cushion for you and bring it in, i have to take cushions around with me from sitting room, to kitchen table to car, etc to make myself comfortable. Ask if you could bring in cushions to support your back and that you be sat near radiator away from drafty door etc, whatever you need to be made more comfortable.
Dont take no as an answer, people who break their arms have scribes, why shouldnt you be given the same sort of respect for your back. if yo have trouble bending over like i do, then ask for two desks to be pushed together if possible so more room, and less chance of something rolling on to ground.

On a happy note to myself. i figured out how to tie my shoe laces today. horay for me. crash in august and i havent been able to put runners on without help since, however i succeeded today, YIPPEE i have to tie lace while runner's on my lap and then put my foot in it afterwards. so simple so why did it take me 9months to figure that out.

good luck in lc, dont sweat it, as my mother always said, there not going to ask you anything your not supposed to know. she failed to realise that that was exactly the problem!!

Dori Duz

marksuttonie wrote:

My chiropractor started out because of his sons playing sports. He certainly sorted my problems out and didn't insist on repeated visits. Again he came recommended by word of mouth and he wasn't expensive.

I'm glad you're happy with the chiropractor you see. I didn't mean to sound like I was against them, I just wanted to let people know to make sure they're seeing one that's decent.
It must be really annoying for good chiropractors who hear about crap ones giving their profession a bad rep.

Also, I don't understand Irish doctors and their obsessions with x-rays. A radiologist/ographer (I always get the two mixed up, I'm trying to say the one who reads MRIs/x-rays ) expalined to me that mri's show stuff that x-ray's don't....I can't remember the technical jargon, but anyone with serious backpain should have one done to allow the proper analysis of their symptoms.

Did you get to the pool, bored and tired? Glad to see you've developed a shoe-lace technique. Now all you have to do ifs find one for zips at the back of dresses!

d-redser

bored and tired wrote:

did your doc give you anything for the pain. did you go in with a parent (even though 18) no offence meant, but docs can sometimes take more hede of mam and dad being worried than teenager sitting leaving cert,

i dont know if you have trouble sitting, but try hot water bottle during the exams, or microwaveable cushions. Explain your situation to school -again with parents present, you could ask that the people who bring in the tea and coffee to the "watchers" could microwave the cushion for you and bring it in, i have to take cushions around with me from sitting room, to kitchen table to car, etc to make myself comfortable. Ask if you could bring in cushions to support your back and that you be sat near radiator away from drafty door etc, whatever you need to be made more comfortable.
Dont take no as an answer, people who break their arms have scribes, why shouldnt you be given the same sort of respect for your back. if yo have trouble bending over like i do, then ask for two desks to be pushed together if possible so more room, and less chance of something rolling on to ground.

On a happy note to myself. i figured out how to tie my shoe laces today. horay for me. crash in august and i havent been able to put runners on without help since, however i succeeded today, YIPPEE i have to tie lace while runner's on my lap and then put my foot in it afterwards. so simple so why did it take me 9months to figure that out.

good luck in lc, dont sweat it, as my mother always said, there not going to ask you anything your not supposed to know. she failed to realise that that was exactly the problem!!

I am in the same boat. I have slip on boots!!

I am doing a First Aid course all these week and I am in agony. With the cold, the constant sitting down all day and then when we have to do the CPR and bend over the dummy, it is so painful.

I have been taking anti-inflammatories for my back but my neightbour mentioned that there was something on the news to say that they are quite dangerous? Anyone heard this?

bored and tired

d-redser wrote:

I am in the same boat. I have slip on boots!!

I have been taking anti-inflammatories for my back but my neightbour mentioned that there was something on the news to say that they are quite dangerous? Anyone heard this?

i saw that as well and was like oh sh*t, but then it said that the particular brand of anti inflammatories was taken off the market. i think 3 people died from liver failure. i know that is awful but you have to take things in the context of the millions of people who were taking them over years and that after only 3 deaths it was pulled. it speaks of how quickly our medicines are monitored and problems dealth with. Hope first aid course goes well.

Dori duz, i have yet to figure out how to do zips on dresses but with the summer cuming i have to figure out first what kind of sandals are nice, but arent 5 inch wedges or heels. and i am not buying a pair of see saw mbt's. i am actually scared i will literally lose my balance in them and roll backwards.

That said anyone have further tips on living with back pain, horrible to ask, but anyone figure out how to cut toenails themselves without needing 3 days bed rest afterwards!!
Also anyone else scared to take shower on their own, not in the someone in the shower with you ha ha sense, but i refuse to shower unless someone in the house as i am scared i will fall, or go into spasm in the shower picking something up or something, paranoi or what, but i couldnt imagine having to struggle to phone and ring for help with only a towel for dignity.

Patricide

bored and tired wrote:

did your doc give you anything for the pain. did you go in with a parent (even though 18) no offence meant, but docs can sometimes take more hede of mam and dad being worried than teenager sitting leaving cert,

i dont know if you have trouble sitting, but try hot water bottle during the exams, or microwaveable cushions. Explain your situation to school -again with parents present, you could ask that the people who bring in the tea and coffee to the "watchers" could microwave the cushion for you and bring it in, i have to take cushions around with me from sitting room, to kitchen table to car, etc to make myself comfortable. Ask if you could bring in cushions to support your back and that you be sat near radiator away from drafty door etc, whatever you need to be made more comfortable.
Dont take no as an answer, people who break their arms have scribes, why shouldnt you be given the same sort of respect for your back. if yo have trouble bending over like i do, then ask for two desks to be pushed together if possible so more room, and less chance of something rolling on to ground.

On a happy note to myself. i figured out how to tie my shoe laces today. horay for me. crash in august and i havent been able to put runners on without help since, however i succeeded today, YIPPEE i have to tie lace while runner's on my lap and then put my foot in it afterwards. so simple so why did it take me 9months to figure that out.

good luck in lc, dont sweat it, as my mother always said, there not going to ask you anything your not supposed to know. she failed to realise that that was exactly the problem!!

its not the pain of sitting the leaving cert thats bugging me, i dont really have problems sitting down for long periods of time most of the time so i should be grand. its just more of the pain in the arse of having to wait another few weeks to actually get an x ray and get somthing done to fix it long term. I mean im 18 ffs, i shouldnt have to deal with a shoddy back till im at least 20 years older.

bored and tired

Patricide wrote:

its not the pain of sitting the leaving cert thats bugging me, i dont really have problems sitting down for long periods of time most of the time so i should be grand. its just more of the pain in the arse of having to wait another few weeks to actually get an x ray and get somthing done to fix it long term. I mean im 18 ffs, i shouldnt have to deal with a shoddy back till im at least 20 years older.

, Thanks!! im not sure if that makes me feel better or not, as i aint a doddery old fool 20 years older than you. No offence to anyone who is though, Best of luck in LC. I hope an xray will start you on road to recovery but if nothing there ask for mri, its meant to be better than xrays for seeing somethings.

kmick

Swimming is not recommended for people with back problems that is bogey advice. There are a hundred different problems that can be aggravated by swimming.

Went to the Castlewood Clinic in Rathmines recently and they have both an Osteopath and a Physical Therapist. I did three sessions with her and 2 with him and am 80% better. Plus they said they had done all they can do and to come back in three months if I started to deteriorate. So at least i know they are honest and not just in it for the repeat business.

Tabnabs

I've tried Chiropractors (worked but he keeps hounding me to come back), Osteopath (big money for little results) and finally on Docs advice a physio. She was the cheapest and best of all three, used acupuncture very successfully for sciatica (had been on a cocktail of drugs from doctor so it was a severe case). Highly recommend the physio and especially one who specialises in acupuncture, best mix of Western education and Eastern "medicine".

Nytfevr

Seriously try Pilates, I know someone in chronic back pain for 14 years and through Pilates they're able to get on with their life, it's really worth it make sure you do the pilates specific to people with back trouble there's a good place in Cork if you're located down here. I think that if you practice pilates the most important thing is that you keep practicising the exercises no matter how basic they may seem- It's all about strengthening muscles, I would not recommend getting a book as it really has to be shown to you how to do it, don't try anything apart from the most basic exercises as you're going to be doing these for the first 6 months though stick with it as it really works, if you feel any pain when doing the exercises then you're not doing them right!

Why-so-Mayo

Sleep on a plank of timber!! It seriously sorts it out!!

LegacyUser

'Hi,
I may as well throw in my tuppence worth.....

I have a bad back too (one of my vertebrae (sp?) is mis-formed, causes disks to swell up), tried a number of therapies, physio didn't work for me at all.

The only treatment that gave good pain relief, other than anti-inflamatories, was the ostiopath. I was very dubious before going, kind of considered it to be some kind of alternative-medecine but the ostiopath was very good, we just do a number of gentle exercises and stretches to get the blood flowing and relieve the swelling. Definitely worth giving the ostiopath a try I would say.

As mentioned by others, swimming is probably one of the best exercises, low impact. Stay away from the breast stroke, that can put a lot of stress on the back, especially if you are not doing it right!...I learned that the had way


All the best.'

d-redser

I have myself booked in for an Osteopath this week. She comes highly reccommended. I am a bit nervous but at this stage I will try anything.

My brother was telling me how accupuncture really helped him so if this osteopath appointment is crap I will check it out..

I have tried swimming a good few times before but it really is a no go area for me..

bored and tired

d-redser wrote:

I have myself booked in for an Osteopath this week. She comes highly reccommended. I am a bit nervous but at this stage I will try anything.

My brother was telling me how accupuncture really helped him so if this osteopath appointment is crap I will check it out..

I have tried swimming a good few times before but it really is a no go area for me..

hi d-redser, hope osteo goes well,
accupuncture is the best i have tried so far, but shop around, i strongly recommend cupping with accupuncture but some people dont do that, not sure if it is a side line alternative therapy or what. Also acupuncturist i went to had loads of stuff, heat lamps, oils, electro machine, insense stuff to burn on the needles.

if you do go to an acup they are expensive enough so make sure to ask what session will involve to get most bang for your buck.