The Ducato thread

peasant

We're getting a bit VW heavy here lately:D , so I thought I might start a thread for the most common base vehicle for motorhomes/campervans (to lure some of the lurkers in the background into writing:D )

I'll start off with some info (from the top of my head) about the old type, the one with the square cab.

On models before 90/91 (the ones with the indicators under the headlights and the straight side windows) you want to watch out for rust.
These are getting on now in years and only models after 90/91 (the ones with the indicators at the side and the slant in the side windows) were fully galvanised and suffer far less.

Year of first registration of the finished camper doesn't necessarily indicate year of manufacture, as a lot of motorhome converters bought base vehicles in bulk and had them sitting around for a while before conversion and registration.

Other than rust (on early models) things to watch out for are:
-dodgy electrics due to corroded earth points and "inspired" Italian wiring
- weak 5th gear, as it is sort of annexed to the main gearbox and gets starved of oil if the level isn't meticulously maintained. Most people tend to overfill a little, that seems to help
- non working headlamp adjustment. This is run via some strange vacuum setup and inevitable gives up the ghost.

Other than that it is a very well buildt and fairly sturdy vehicle.


The engines:

1.9 TD
A fine little engine with good pulling power (81 bhp) and a fairly long life expectancy ...in a Talento or Scudo or any "lesser" vehicle.
In a Ducato with a big shed on the back it will mostly have been stressed within an inch of is life for most of its life and needs to be inspected thoroughly before buying.

2.5 Diesel
Not a "mover and shaker" with only 75 bhp, but it keeps on going. Engines with 300.000 - 400.000 km are quite common in commercial circles. Very reliable, cheap to service and maintain ...a fine engine if you're not in a hurry.

2.4 TD
This is the one to go for ...if you can get it. Direct injection engine with 92 bhp. Not faster in top speed than the 75 bhp ...but a lot quicker getting there and pulls like a train up hills and out of bends.
Also pretty basic, easy to maintain and service.

John Dough

The 2.8 is also quite popular and seems to pull very well past me going up hills!!!!!!

However looking at the new 2.3 multijet for 2007 it churns out 130 hp with special motorhome gearing and can be had for £29995!!!! a bargain.

Now to grovel to the Bank Manager.:D

dee bee

rust on body is a real problem on the old models. i have a 92 dethleff built on a ducato and the arches over the wheels have rust spreading rather rapidly. have tried keeping it at bay by scraping out rusty bits and painting over it but that does not seem to be working.

recently someone suggested grinding the rust away and filling it with fibreglass foam. any thoughts on that?

cheers

moodrater

dee bee wrote: »

rust on body is a real problem on the old models. i have a 92 dethleff built on a ducato and the arches over the wheels have rust spreading rather rapidly. have tried keeping it at bay by scraping out rusty bits and painting over it but that does not seem to be working.

recently someone suggested grinding the rust away and filling it with fibreglass foam. any thoughts on that?

cheers

Is it perforated? No problem fibreglassing non structural parts.

No point in paiting over rust without fully treating it first, remove loose rust & paint with wire brush or wire wheel, treat with acid rust eater, prime with an epoxy primer and paint. Proper prep and expoxy primer are key to stopping the rust. Anything less and you'll be doing it again in a couple of year.

If they're very far gone you can get the panels:
http://www.autopanels-castleford.co.uk/webpages/Fiat/fiat%20ducato.htm

Aidan_M_M

Rust is an issue in the 95 to '00 also. Not as widespread , mostly at the front RHS. The battery tray , chassis leg under it, and the front , bolt on crossmember That holds up the rad. The main earth point to the chassis is on the chassis under the battery, needs checking. The brake pipes on 85 to 00 models too, I repair dozens of rotten pipes. The corrosion seems to be sorted by the time they introduced the Jtd around 2001.
5th gear can and commonly does fail on these. Rear engine mounts and the rear bushing of the front suspension. Very easily fitted though.
Very common to see leaky rear brake cylinders on drum braked models from 85-05. Also seized brake calipers on the front, on MHs. Regular maintenance prevents this.

I replace a lot of front wheel bearings on 2004-2006 models , much more so than older ones. Bit of a b1tch to do.


Apart from those issues, I love these motors, super dependable xnd easy work on, far ahead of a tranny or transporter IMO.

dee bee

thanx 4 d tips moodrator. actually a portion of one of the wheel arch edges has completely crumbled. think i'll hav 2 put some kind of supporting strip under the arch to hold up any filling. hav 2 get this done as it was one reason for failing the new NCT test. wud u hav a name for the 'acid rust eaters' u mention?

also thanx for the link. its useful but think i'll hav 2 make do with repairs as the panel wud cost too much 2 replace. cant afford it.

while on the subject i might mention that i'm also looking for a left rear light lens to replace my broken one. its like the pic of the undamaged one attached. any ideas where i can source one cheaply?

thanx in advance for yer help.

happy camping

swarlb

peasant wrote: »

We're getting a bit VW heavy here lately:D , so I thought I might start a thread for the most common base vehicle for motorhomes/campervans (to lure some of the lurkers in the background into writing:D )

I'll start off with some info (from the top of my head) about the old type, the one with the square cab.

On models before 90/91 (the ones with the indicators under the headlights and the straight side windows) you want to watch out for rust.
These are getting on now in years and only models after 90/91 (the ones with the indicators at the side and the slant in the side windows) were fully galvanised and suffer far less.

Year of first registration of the finished camper doesn't necessarily indicate year of manufacture, as a lot of motorhome converters bought base vehicles in bulk and had them sitting around for a while before conversion and registration.

Other than rust (on early models) things to watch out for are:
-dodgy electrics due to corroded earth points and "inspired" Italian wiring
- weak 5th gear, as it is sort of annexed to the main gearbox and gets starved of oil if the level isn't meticulously maintained. Most people tend to overfill a little, that seems to help
- non working headlamp adjustment. This is run via some strange vacuum setup and inevitable gives up the ghost.

Other than that it is a very well buildt and fairly sturdy vehicle.


The engines:

1.9 TD
A fine little engine with good pulling power (81 bhp) and a fairly long life expectancy ...in a Talento or Scudo or any "lesser" vehicle.
In a Ducato with a big shed on the back it will mostly have been stressed within an inch of is life for most of its life and needs to be inspected thoroughly before buying.

2.5 Diesel
Not a "mover and shaker" with only 75 bhp, but it keeps on going. Engines with 300.000 - 400.000 km are quite common in commercial circles. Very reliable, cheap to service and maintain ...a fine engine if you're not in a hurry.

2.4 TD
This is the one to go for ...if you can get it. Direct injection engine with 92 bhp. Not faster in top speed than the 75 bhp ...but a lot quicker getting there and pulls like a train up hills and out of bends.
Also pretty basic, easy to maintain and service.

The 1.9 engine is not the same as a Scudo, or any Fiat from the 'modern' era for that matter.
It originated in The Ritmo as a 1.7 back in the early 80's and was enlarged and fitted to other Fiat models of the time, including the Ducato.
The Ducato started in '83 and ran to '88 when there was a facelift, it was 'facelifted' again from '88 to '93' with canges to the cab.
Personally I'd steer clear of any of these up to '93. They share nothing with the Nuovo Ducato (the roundy one), and many parts are becoming unobtainable.

moodrater

dee bee wrote: »

thanx 4 d tips moodrator. actually a portion of one of the wheel arch edges has completely crumbled. think i'll hav 2 put some kind of supporting strip under the arch to hold up any filling. hav 2 get this done as it was one reason for failing the new NCT test. wud u hav a name for the 'acid rust eaters' u mention?

also thanx for the link. its useful but think i'll hav 2 make do with repairs as the panel wud cost too much 2 replace. cant afford it.

while on the subject i might mention that i'm also looking for a left rear light lens to replace my broken one. its like the pic of the undamaged one attached. any ideas where i can source one cheaply?

thanx in advance for yer help.

happy camping

There are a ton of different rust eaters upol, rustins, hammerite etc. most have either tannic acid or phosphoric acid, and most now contain somekind of polymer to seal the rust so you can paint right over these might not be compatible with epoxy.

I get plain old phosphoric acid from the builders providers by the liter.
If you're willing to put in the elbow grease to get down to clean metal and degrease the epoxy primer will stick better anyway without any converter.

If its perforated it might be easier to prep from behind to bare steel and use p40 it will exude through the holes and you can sand it off flush.

Aidan_MM do you grease those rear bushings was wondering about doing it routinely myself.

killalanerr

we are on the ferry home after this years trip i had a comeing together with Spanish white van man and wrecked the pass mirror could have been a lot worst up shot is i will need a complet new mirror any tips on Wher to look would be much grate

The Bishop Basher

Rust bullet is another option. I've used it on a couple of vans over the years and never had a reoccurrence. Can be difficult to get and pricy too but worth it.

moodrater

killalanerr wrote: »

we are on the ferry home after this years trip i had a comeing together with Spanish white van man and wrecked the pass mirror could have been a lot worst up shot is i will need a complet new mirror any tips on Wher to look would be much grate

Theres several variations over the years, then long arm and short arm versions, then electric and manual. Theres 94-02 manual mirrors on adverts, was a guy on donedeal had the 02-06 versions too. You can get them on ebay handy enough too.

moodrater

Swanner wrote: »

Rust bullet is another option. I've used it on a couple of vans over the years and never had a reoccurrence. Can be difficult to get and pricy too but worth it.

Never used that looks good alright but for the price you'd have a gallon of epoxy primer:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=131753&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=260

cala

helllo i happened to see this discussion on fiat ducato camper vans and wonder if anyone can help me. my ducato battery was flat and i tried jump starting it with no success,however i thnk i blew a fuse or something as now i havent a warning light on the dash at all. any help thanks

jamesbil

Hi all, I'm after a ducato as a base for a conversion, LWB >03 must be low mileage.

moodrater

cala wrote: »

helllo i happened to see this discussion on fiat ducato camper vans and wonder if anyone can help me. my ducato battery was flat and i tried jump starting it with no success,however i thnk i blew a fuse or something as now i havent a warning light on the dash at all. any help thanks

If the battery is totally dead you'd have no lights :pac:

Does it have the fuses on top of he battery if so you've possibly blown one of the maxi fuses. You can get a multimeter on ebay for under a tenner delivered no excuse not to have one. http://www.ebay.ie/itm/Digital-Multimeter-LCD-Screen-Voltimeter-Ammeter-Ohmmeter-Brand-New-/110955963519?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Test_Measurement_Equipment_ET&hash=item19d57da47f#ht_1798wt_1348

moodrater

jamesbil wrote: »

Hi all, I'm after a ducato as a base for a conversion, LWB >03 must be low mileage.

Looks good to me:
http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/commercials/3917650

If thats genuine I'd snap the guys arm off only 56k miles and ex eircom you know its probably been serviced on time and hasn't been carrying around 2 tons of building materials on a regular basis. I spent about 9 months looking before I found a sub 60k mile 2005 ducato in good condition and that was 3 years ago.

jamesbil

Nice one, thanks.
Looked at so many and walked away, often from dodgy deal too.

One guy asking €1700 for a 04, 90k, came down to 1200 on the spot, then called later looking for 900! I figured had to be a prob, especially as he wouldnt allow a test drive!

killalanerr

moodrater wrote: »

Theres several variations over the years, then long arm and short arm versions, then electric and manual. Theres 94-02 manual mirrors on adverts, was a guy on donedeal had the 02-06 versions too. You can get them on ebay handy enough too.

Ended up ordering from theses guys https://www.wingmirrorman.co.uk/ rang them they said if i ordered a short arm one i would be able to split it and add the mirror moulding to my long arms only thing i hope the wire will be long enough my arms a quite long if you know what i mean !

moodrater

jamesbil wrote: »

Nice one, thanks.
Looked at so many and walked away, often from dodgy deal too.

One guy asking €1700 for a 04, 90k, came down to 1200 on the spot, then called later looking for 900! I figured had to be a prob, especially as he wouldnt allow a test drive!

Bit risky alright my moneys on the gearbox syncros being fecked, 800 quid would go a long way though but not worth the hassle.

moodrater

killalanerr wrote: »

Ended up ordering from theses guys https://www.wingmirrorman.co.uk/ rang them they said if i ordered a short arm one i would be able to split it and add the mirror moulding to my long arms only thing i hope the wire will be long enough my arms a quite long if you know what i mean !

Sorted so. Was just coming on to say theres a guy in listowel has some 02-06 ones on ebay starting at a tenner they're manual ones though. I think they'll bolt onto the 1994-02 vans too if anyone else is looking. I like manual things myself. I've even replaced my electric windows with manual ones from a one I scrapped.

bharr

Hi all

I recently got a 1992 Hymer Camp 46 on Ducato 1900 Diesel base. As you'd expect, it's a bit agricultural. After a trip to Wexford and back this weekend, I thinking of changing my name to Benjy..

It's grand doing downhill with a strong tailwind. On second thoughts, make that a gale. I reckon it might even make 120km/h falling off the edge of a high cliff, the Cliffs of Moher, for example.

Most of the time the top speed is 90-100km/h. It fairly hums along at this speed and everything feels relaxed. I have no problem with this and I'm adapting to life on the slow lane. The scenery is much better here and I like seeing car drivers whizzing past me looking stressed out while they try not to be overtaken and using their mobile phones at the same time.

The only drawback to this is on narrow hilly roads. Yesterday, I was on the road to Wexford and from there to Fethard-on-Sea on the R733 (I think). The road was a bit hilly and bendy and being in a LHD, there was soon a line of cars behind me as my van slowed down a lot on hills and took a while to build up speed again when I shifted up again from a lower gear.

I thought how handy it would be to have a bit of extra oomph.

Is it possible to have a turbo fitted to this engine or even have the engine swapped for a more powerful one?

Thanks a million, folks.

Brian

dee bee

hi,

i'm trying to figure how to keep my camper in shape but realise the original manual is in german. any idea where i can find an english one?
its a 1992 Fiat Ducato 2.5 TD.
the issue arose as the exhaust silencer is falling off with rust and i was trying to figure out what details to search under. anyone know of any dealers in the republic that do old fiat parts?
thanks for reading

Benbecul97

dee bee wrote: »

hi,

i'm trying to figure how to keep my camper in shape but realise the original manual is in german. any idea where i can find an english one?
its a 1992 Fiat Ducato 2.5 TD.
the issue arose as the exhaust silencer is falling off with rust and i was trying to figure out what details to search under. anyone know of any dealers in the republic that do old fiat parts?
thanks for reading

http://www.burnscarsales.ie/Service/ in Sligo. Got a Fiat part from them last year. Great to deal with.

dee bee

thanks ben, will try it out

lastsaturday

well, how's the campervan community? i hope you all had a great easter break..

i'm hoping there's a 230 subject matter expert, on here, who can help me..

I have a 1996 2.5D citroen relay van with a gearbox that's pretty close to retirement. as far as i can remember, it's a 20KM20 5 speed.

Are any other gearboxes a direct swap for this one, or do i need to go for an exact replacement? these are in fairly short supply, so would be great if i could expand my search criteria..

alternatively, what's the best approach to restoring the 20KM20?

many thanks for any help

LastSaturday

autumnalcore

lastsaturday wrote: »

well, how's the campervan community? i hope you all had a great easter break..

i'm hoping there's a 230 subject matter expert, on here, who can help me..

I have a 1996 2.5D citroen relay van with a gearbox that's pretty close to retirement. as far as i can remember, it's a 20KM20 5 speed.

Are any other gearboxes a direct swap for this one, or do i need to go for an exact replacement? these are in fairly short supply, so would be great if i could expand my search criteria..

alternatively, what's the best approach to restoring the 20KM20?

many thanks for any help

LastSaturday

1.9td or 2.8 n/a box are probably the closest to 2.5 n/a I think you can check ratios etc on eper. Other boxes might fit but the gearing might be too tall for an n/a engine. My personal preference would be buy a rusty donor van and transplant a 2.5 or 2.8 turbo eninge and gearbox.

Nekarsulm

Last week I posted about the 5th gear problem, thought I had everything sorted gearbox wise.
We went to Galway/Mayo for a few days and coming home through Castlebar the clutch felt different.
Very soon found out that I had no longer and clutch clearence, and it couldn't be got into gear.
Nursed it on to Boyle, where I checked things. By slackening the lock-nut on the clutch cabke I took up about 20mm of length and had a bit of clutch clearence . Got home the final 40 miles, but it looks like a new clutch kit is needed.
There was no squealing or anything, but I suppose it must be the release bearing has eaten into/ heated the release fingers/diaphragm ?
2.8 td, built 1998.

lastsaturday

I can't imagine what the neighbours would say if I brought home a donor van 😂😂

AFAIK the gearboxes on these 230's is the achilles heel for almost all the engine types.. It's a pity there are are so many different types.. Makes finding a donor for swapping out a pain in the butt..

Anyone know of a campervan man, or mechanic who would know a lot about these particular machines and could give direction on compatibility, etc?

landmarkjohn

dee bee wrote: »

rust on body is a real problem on the old models. i have a 92 dethleff built on a ducato and the arches over the wheels have rust spreading rather rapidly. have tried keeping it at bay by scraping out rusty bits and painting over it but that does not seem to be working.

recently someone suggested grinding the rust away and filling it with fibreglass foam. any thoughts on that?

cheers

Just done this repair to my 1989 for the second time and she looks fresh again. An abrasive wheel on a 4" grinder soon gets through the rust. Fiberglass and filler then. You'd be surprised at the results with a little effort. Biggest surprise for me this time round was the filler can be sanded after 20 minutes!! And then painted! OK maybe slight exaggeration but only slight! Go for it! Plenty on Youtube.

landmarkjohn

Have to put in a shout for the 2.0 petrol in first generation 1981-1993. 75bhp this engine was originally designed for rallying and has a double thickness cam chain. Very reliable, low maintenance... a battery, oil changes, a set of plugs and HT leads in 12 years isn't bad. 20 MPG all day.

landmarkjohn

dee bee wrote: »

hi,

i'm trying to figure how to keep my camper in shape but realise the original manual is in german. any idea where i can find an english one?
its a 1992 Fiat Ducato 2.5 TD.
the issue arose as the exhaust silencer is falling off with rust and i was trying to figure out what details to search under. anyone know of any dealers in the republic that do old fiat parts?
thanks for reading

In Limerick this is the exhaust guy (ignore the gruff manner, sound guy)

https://www.emeraldexhaustcentre.com/

m8

bharr wrote: »

Hi all

I recently got a 1992 Hymer Camp 46 on Ducato 1900 Diesel base. As you'd expect, it's a bit agricultural. After a trip to Wexford and back this weekend, I thinking of changing my name to Benjy..

It's grand doing downhill with a strong tailwind. On second thoughts, make that a gale. I reckon it might even make 120km/h falling off the edge of a high cliff, the Cliffs of Moher, for example.

Most of the time the top speed is 90-100km/h. It fairly hums along at this speed and everything feels relaxed. I have no problem with this and I'm adapting to life on the slow lane. The scenery is much better here and I like seeing car drivers whizzing past me looking stressed out while they try not to be overtaken and using their mobile phones at the same time.

The only drawback to this is on narrow hilly roads. Yesterday, I was on the road to Wexford and from there to Fethard-on-Sea on the R733 (I think). The road was a bit hilly and bendy and being in a LHD, there was soon a line of cars behind me as my van slowed down a lot on hills and took a while to build up speed again when I shifted up again from a lower gear.

I thought how handy it would be to have a bit of extra oomph.

Is it possible to have a turbo fitted to this engine or even have the engine swapped for a more powerful one?

Thanks a million, folks.

Brian

I have the exact same on a 2.8 Ducato yr 2k. Turbo seems fine and no smoke but low on power on the hills.

JonMac

Tristan at Pat Horan Campers is very knowledgable.

Nekarsulm

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Last week I posted about the 5th gear problem, thought I had everything sorted gearbox wise.
We went to Galway/Mayo for a few days and coming home through Castlebar the clutch felt different.
Very soon found out that I had no longer and clutch clearence, and it couldn't be got into gear.
Nursed it on to Boyle, where I checked things. By slackening the lock-nut on the clutch cabke I took up about 20mm of length and had a bit of clutch clearence . Got home the final 40 miles, but it looks like a new clutch kit is needed.
There was no squealing or anything, but I suppose it must be the release bearing has eaten into/ heated the release fingers/diaphragm ?
2.8 td, built 1998.

Got a complete new clutch kit fitted.
The plate was fine, barely any wear, but the diaphragm segments/fingers had deformed and the release bearing wasnt able to push them far enough.

Benbecul97

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Got a complete new clutch kit fitted.
The plate was fine, barely any wear, but the diaphragm segments/fingers had deformed and the release bearing wasnt able to push them far enough.

What did that set you back or did you fit it yourself?

Nekarsulm

The cost of the clutch kit complets ( according to the mechanic) was 230 euro for a Sachs.
Charged 300 labour.
Clutch disk was perfect, dated 2008, but obviously the last owner just stuck in tbe disk and didnt change the cover plate.
2000 year van.

Benbecul97

Had to get one replaced a 5 years ago and it was €190 for the kit and €300 for labour, so very similiar.

dee bee

Hi electric pros of the forum, I have a query. I am thinking of replacing the interior bulbs in my camper (1992, 2.5TDi) with LEDs. Any reason why I shouldn't? :cool:

Thanks

jamesd

dee bee wrote: »

Hi electric pros of the forum, I have a query. I am thinking of replacing the interior bulbs in my camper (1992, 2.5TDi) with LEDs. Any reason why I shouldn't? :cool:

Thanks

I replaced all mine this year, unreal the difference in lighting and power requirements as 1 old bulb drew the same wattage as all the new ones combined.

JonMac

I installed these in my 1999 camper: Litecone MR11 12V (10-30V) AC/DC 2W GU4 30 Degree Warm White LED Light Bulb Lamp.
The household 12V ones may not appreciate the 14-odd volts of a fully charged battery.

m8

jamesd wrote: »

I replaced all mine this year, unreal the difference in lighting and power requirements as 1 old bulb drew the same wattage as all the new ones combined.

Same here the LED bulbs only use a fraction of the power I was using on the old bulbs, just need to change the outside light now and we are done. With 4 on I am using half of the power 1 bulb was using and light seems brighter from the LED ones.

dee bee

m8 wrote: »

Same here the LED bulbs only use a fraction of the power I was using on the old bulbs, just need to change the outside light now and we are done. With 4 on I am using half of the power 1 bulb was using and light seems brighter from the LED ones.

Hi m8, you mind telling me what LEDs you used? Looking at different options. Thanks

m8

dee bee wrote: »

Hi m8, you mind telling me what LEDs you used? Looking at different options. Thanks

Can't remember tbh I just purchased on ebay about a year ago and all still working.

dee bee

Ok, no worries. I'll just do my research. Thanks all the same.

rustynutz

I changed my halogen internal lights in my rimor last year but found the led bulb still glowed when switched off. I thought it was just the cheap Ebay bulbs but was the same when I tried dearer ones. I never got to the bottom of it and just put back in the halogens

CelticRambler

That's a known issue with LEDs and indicates that you've got a trickle of current going through the lighting circuit - not enough to light up a conventional bulb, but more than enough to get the electrons in the LEDs agitated. I have the same problem with a set of LEDs in the house, wired into an older PIR - might be worth checking what's going on with your switches.

I replaced my 10W halogens for 1.5W LEDS and was initially very happy, but the replacement bulbs (cheap Chinese things) have been failing one after the other. It might be because they're just a little bit larger than the halogens so don't quite fit properly inside the protetive glass. We'll see if taking the glass out changes things, but maybe they're just crappy bulbs.