Transylvania-on-Track!

Transport21 Fan

As always, I was watching Countryfile on the BBC this morning and they had a feature about some Narrow Gauge Railway line in Romania from the Communist days which was closed a few years ago by the Government as it was not needed as the industries and the whole world it served were no more. It was now only a few sidings with a few locos and old wagons in the grass.

Lo and Behold on the show is an almost carbon copy of the same English Trainspotter types who come over here demanding that the Western Rail Corridor be reopened!

He gives the same speech about "closed for allegedly economic reasons" *rolls eyes* with the same smug, condesending delivery while slagging off the Romanian Railway operator for not taking special care of his personal railway hobby needs.

He even came in at one point with "these people need public transport!" while he was obviously and suspiciously becoming very excited as John Craven blew the steam locomotive whistle.

It's like the south of England exports these eccentrics to the four corners of the world demanding that local taxpayer fund their fetish for pointless rural rail lines.

I was watching it half expecting it to be exposed as a comedy routine with some group called Transylvania-on-Track demanding their justice from the "Bucharest Government".

If you saw the state of this Romanian railway line which they were demanding be repoened (think the old 1930's Lough Swilly Railway on a bad day) - it was in absolute bits.

But there is was. The whole same WRC saga we have here in Ireland - but exported to the banks of the Danube this time. The same Kiplingesque English trainspotters and the local Gricers demanding others pay for their holiday hobby.

The same lies about "it's all about regional development and public transport for the poor you know" *slowly shoves spectecles towards nose*. The same insulting attacks on a democratically foreign elected Government for daring to moderise their rail network against the wishes of Nigel from Bury-Saint-Edmonds.

Is there a factory in the English Home Counties which makes these types for export? After seeing this shower in Romania this morning and their carbon copies here in Ireland, I have to think there is.

dermo88

Oh splendid. Thanks for that Transport21, I'll be cutting and pasting some of that material to Irishrailwaynews. Just to make sure that Hugh Heffner, and the other nutcases are kept in their place.

The sight of a 141, heating van, and a SINGLE cravens used to bloody well annoy me. I thought...."how much does this cost to run"....."Its got to be better than this".....

But you had a bunch of spotters loving it, and frankly, in the late 1990's in Ireland, it was nothing less than a disgrace.

dermo88

Of course, I have one from Malaysia....

I can speak a little Malay, and I have got into the locomotive cab by bluffing and chatting. While I am a rail enthusiast on one hand, I despise inefficiency and waste. So the train staff and I, we are all sitting down in the buffet car, drinking tea, eating rice, smoking cigarettes, and chatting. Inevitably, the conversation rolls around to Iarnrod Eireann, and for all its faults and failings, the worst of Iarnrod Eireann looks like the TGV with bells and whistles on it compared to the best of Malaysias KTMB.

"So how many staff on an Irish train".

"I reply.....3.....driver, guard, restaurant car attendant"

(Train guard frowns....Malaysian Railways has a Locomotive, Guard Van, 2 x 1st, 5 x 2nd, Restaurant Car, and on board.....12 staff....driver, assistant driver, train guard, assistant train guard, ticket checker, 4 cleaners, 2 restaurant car attendants, serving 500 passengers.

"How fast do you go......"
"I reply, we can get up to 160kph at best. Normal is 120kph.....(meanwhile, we are bucketing along at a top speed of 90kph, and there are piles of delays, reversals, permanent way slacks, and if it can go wrong, its going wrong. Its taking 7 1/2 hours to cover 396km, and we end up 1 1/2 hours late.

Enthusiasts love that kind of nonsense and inefficiency. On the return trip, I took the bus. Air conditioning, Reclining seats, Broadband connection, pure luxury, and all for 20 Euro, 30% more than first class on the train, scheduled time,4 1/2 hours for 396km, and its bang on time.

Of course, I decide to subject myself to the same fun again a fortnight later, for the scenery, and the sensation of seeing a steeply graded mountain railway. Of course, we make it on time for once, but then.....there is so much padding, cigarette breaks, chatting, and 5 minute stops that should take 1 minute that they could'nt fail to be on time.

And I concluded.

"Noone but a sadist, pauper or a trainspotter takes the train"
I am asked at the pub.....sitting down with a Tiger Beer and cigarette...."How you get here lah"
"The train"
"So slow one lah, you should take bus"
(Rolls eyes)...."I know the trains are crap, and slow, but the scenery is nice, and thats for free"
And I am not going to explain any more. I'm not going to be seen like one of those social misfits. I've got other interests and better things to talk about. Its hard enough to come out of the closet once (ahem), but to do it twice, and admit being a rail enthusiast is another matter. I change the topic to beer, cigarettes, football, politics and anything else controversial and unsafe.

And then.....they say..."We should have high speed trains in Malaysia"
Then its out with the beermat, biro maps, and back of fag pack calculations.

fricatus

Transport21 Fan wrote:

Is there a factory in the English Home Counties which makes these types for export? After seeing this shower in Romania this morning and their carbon copies here in Ireland, I have to think there is.

I'll never forget pulling into Birmingham New Street railway station and seeing all the boyos with their Thermoses, notebooks and cameras. I foolishly asked an English friend if they were news crews waiting for some celebrity or other.

Yes, I know, we've got trainspotters here, but these guys were like... organised! And there were so many of them. I never thought I'd get culture shock in England, but I did.

dermo88

They are a hardy breed. I've known a few planners and engineers, and they all say "Rail enthusiasts should not be allowed plan and operate a modern railway". They are blinded by their love of the past so much that they would inflict old rubbish on us in the present.

One Saturday night in 2004, I got stranded in effing Crewe overnight. My connection to Birmingham had left 15 minutes previously. So I got myself off to the Hotel.

Much as I like trains, there is no way I am going to freeze my pants off at platform 8 on Crewe on a winters night. I wanted to get back to Birmingham, get home and go clubbing with my mates, and I planned to get home by midnight. Theres no point in losing my rag, so I just think..."make the most of it". Call Birmingham, "I'm stuck in bloody Crewe....Blackpool for trainspotters"

So we were boozing away in the Hotel bar, singing songs, getting drunk, and someone asked.

"Where is this place"
I replied "This place does not exist in terms of the motorway network. This place is Blackpool for trainspotters. You have officially entered the twilight zone"
And outside....at the platform, sure enough.....were the poor hardy lads taking photographs, getting pissed on, and freezing to death. We looked out, and I explained...."Look, its like an International Rugby match to you guys stuck here heading for Cardiff, only its cheaper for them....each to their own"
"Oooh look a Class 66 (evil grin) People began to look scared, and I laughed......scared yez, did'nt I......and got my round in".

And most people.....despise Crewe. Crewe on a winters night. (shudders). But then, I know how to make the most of the most adverse situations. If theres a pub, and beer around, no bother....

Transport21 Fan

fricatus wrote:

I'll never forget pulling into Birmingham New Street railway station and seeing all the boyos with their Thermoses, notebooks and cameras. I foolishly asked an English friend if they were news crews waiting for some celebrity or other.

Yes, I know, we've got trainspotters here, but these guys were like... organised! And there were so many of them. I never thought I'd get culture shock in England, but I did.

There is nothing at all wrong with Trainspotting or loving trains. I do not socialise with them as frankly I found the ones I came into contact well, annoying. But that's alright, none of us is perfect and these trainspotters for the most part are harming nobody and doing nothing wrong. So good luck to them. Collecting train numbers, wearing an anorak or any of the other sterotypes surrounding these folks that's there own personal business.

It only becomes a problem when they (a certain political trainspotter element) think they are owed public money into their hobby and then tell lies and spoofs that they are doing it for (select from the list below):

A) REGIONAL DEVELOPMENT
KYOTO
C) SAVING ROAD DEATHS (the most repulsive and immoral of all)
D) PUBLIC TRANSPORT

All the above reasons for investment in their rural rail/rail freight is a barely concealed deception which seeks to capitalise one way or another on the hardships in other people's lives which they have no empathy for.

They do not care about dangerous road lorries in the West of Ireland, they care about using road lorries to get a photo of a freight train at a new location for their scrapbooks.

They are only interested in getting public money to maintain a certain rural and rustic element of their hobby which either via economic or infrastructural needs has become redundant.

They do not care about Midleton, as there is no loop at the end of the station so locomotives cannot be run around coaches on some rail tour - but they love the WRC with all its combinations of loops and run-arounds and the endless possibility for photos of locos running around Cravens. Hence they are fanatically devoted to the WRC, but not interested in Midleton line or Navan and god forbid metros and light rail!

It's bad enough when these politically active trainspotters do it in their own country, but there seems to be this left-over of the British empire among a certain brand of English trainspotter which would have made Rudyard Kipling look tame at the height of his jingoistic imperialism.

Again, I am not talking about the English trainspotter who comes over here to work on a restoration project on some locomotive. I am talking about the ones sitting in their UK tax zone issuing demands to Irish politicians, Irish Rail management and newspapers to fund the likes of Western Rail Corridor for "regional development" when it's just really looking for Paddy taxpayers to get them some more track to play with on their 1/1 scale overseas model railway.

I find these people obnoxious, interfering, dangerous and in some cases almost racist. As I believe that subconciously some of them want to keep railways in Ireland, Romania, and so backward and rustic as in their minds this is all we 'coolies' deserve. They have held back the UK rail network for decades with knee-jerk reactions to anything new or modern, and they are at work here in Ireland as well.

This why there is still no high-speed rail in the UK. It started with them bombarding the UK media in the 1950's 60's - claiming that the BR electric upgrade was a waste of money as Britain already have stream locos and loads of coal. The damage they have done to rail modernisation in the UK is staggering and they are doing it here in Ireland as well. People forget the sheer negativity towards the Advanced Passenger Train was endlessly fostered and cultivated in the UK trainspotter media as "we have the HST, why do we need this!" - Go to their message boards and you see this mentality constantly against anything new which Irish Rail undertakes from CTC in Mayo to new railcars. It's a British disease which should never be allowed to take root in this country.

Now couple them with the homegrown headbangers who sit in Dublin and see themselves as the saviours of the people of Rural Ireland with their latest 'lines on maps' manifesto/psychotic episode, and one has a recipe for a rail network never destined to service the needs of the nation were them needs are the greatest.

In the end rail transport gets a terrible name with politicians and media as all they come into contact with is some middle-aged weirdo with his fly half opened looking for "social justice!".

Again I have nothing against your average trainspotter who takes photos of engines, collects number and that's it. It's the ones who think that trainspotting should be a nationalised industry who are the problem.

and the Western Rail Corridor is the big daddy of them all for these types.

dermo88

Oh please, you cannot say such wicked things. You should be banned, I mean, its disgraceful. You are the antichrist, is your name Damien, you are anti-rail. Is Dublin Ireland, or is Ireland Dublin. You are anti west of Ireland. Does west of the shannon matter. You know, there are traffic jams in the west you know. We need more railways in rural Ireland, the economy of the west needs them urgently. We must bring rails back to Donegal.

Transport21fan......brilliant, I love it.

The battle for real railways that carry people continues.

I've given up on railfreight, however hard I look, I cannot see a role for it, and protectionist measures to support it are counterproductive.

The very people who shut down those anachronistic bloody branch lines in the 1950's and 1960's, who condemned the end of steam are the enemies of modernisation and progress. We're getting there, and the message of sanity is getting through.

spacetweek

Transport21 Fan wrote:

There is nothing at all wrong with Trainspotting or loving trains...

Thanks for your contributions T21 Fan! They've made for some great reading.

I totally agree with everything you've said, it's very dangerous when people start thinking that their hobby, for that is all it is, should become official government policy. We need a small number of strategic national rail reopenings, and LOADS of urban rail.

And that's it.

dermo88

Its worse than that Transport21 fan. I'm doing some 'research' on some posters on IRN, and the most vocal advocates of these lines don't live in Ireland. For the record, neither do I, so I am not qualified to criticise too much.

A Helfner MGWR, lives in New Jersey, and apparently commutes 5 hours each day in America. His 'concern' for the homeland probably amounts to an annual trip to see Mammy. For the record, I get home between 3 and 5 times a year, and hop between England and Malaysia. I am now regretting my previous conduct on IRN when I was sarcastic, since when I now produce anything rational, logical, with common sense involved, they can just produce one of my more bitter and twisted tirades and discredit me. I can tolerate that, after all, I am admitting that I was incorrect.

Ivatt could be Brian Guckian, who is an 'integrated transport researcher" and lives in Blackrock. Luckily, he has the DART on his doorstep. By contrast, in the same wealthy neighbourhood, Dr Sean Barrett, also has DART on his doorstep. Both of them use DART. One proposes expanding it to every rural hamlet, the other one proposes closing it.

For decades, we have read articles in our newspapers about proposals, about new rail links, and each time, NOTHING has happened.

This is because each time, each proposal did not have grounding in reality. This is because they come on nationwide and look at the more rustic areas. Their favourites are not Dublin to Cork, or DART, or Maynooth/Mullingar commuter, Navan or Cobh. They'll be found in the deepest recesses of West Cork, rural Waterford, Claremorris, Valentia or even Clifden.

I reckon the Transport Minister, and CIE chairman sees them coming, and goes.

"Oh $#?S?&* not this bunch again", and one goes to the other.

"I think we deserve a drink"

murphaph

They banned me for less dermo, don't know how you have survived this long! Pity we can't send all those loons (the homegrown ones too) to Romania!

dermo88

I've survived because I can produce evidence, proof, records, reports, hyperlinks, a good dose of common sense to back up most of my rational statements.

When I make irrational statements, I can prove that its tongue in cheek.

I'm on my "final warning". So I'll toe the line, or skate very close to the edge. What on earth did they ban you for?

Romanians don't deserve that kind of thing inflicted on them after all, they have just joined the European Union. They've overcome Ceaucescus legacy, and their economy is beginning to get some life in it, and now....you want to send Leperbahn tours on a holiday. You are too sadistic murphaph, but theres got to be a country that needs them. They can't afford Switzerland, which has lots of nice clean, efficient railways, but its hyperexpensive. So lets continue.....for now.

They want a railway in Donegal, because we have'nt got an epic mountain railway, but they never THINK of going elsewhere to find it. Much as they'd like to have one, we happen to know its not practical. Not now, not ever. But a mild defence on their part, if the state can spend 127 Million Euro (IEP100 Million) on the Shannon - Erne Waterway, then why not a railway. The trouble is, that both are of dubious economic benefit. http://www.waterwaysireland.org/erne/ . Notice the absence of "how much did this cost", back in 1994, and I remember it cost IEP 100 Million back then. So thats their side of the argument.

I don't mind the spotters and photographers once take pics, enjoy themselves, and spend a few quid on accomodation and pints. Are helping the economy, but to quote a British Transport Minister, "British Rail are there to provide a modern transport system, not entertainment for trainspotters", and the same applies to every country on earth. Its the politically minded breed that are dangerous.

They have no idea either, of how much it costs the companies to operate the trains themselves. The moment I ask that.....its a blank stare.

Once they become lobbyists, then its a case of.

Lets think like "Bishop Brennan". Send them to the Craggy Island of railway networks. Ecuador perhaps, Peru, Bolivia, Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia.....come to mind. Somewhere decrepit, poor, poverty stricken, dangerous, where noone knows how to speak English. Health risks, Altitude sickness, Montezumas revenge, Spicy Food, Cheap Liquor,brassers, and Sunshine, if they lobby the transport minister, they might imprisoned. If they take photographs of trains, they are spies for those evil imperialists, terrorists, revolutionaries, or the Medellin Drug Cartel. Triads, Pimps, Casino bosses, Corrupt police officers, and assorted scams.

Lots of freight, no passenger trains, and with any luck, any passenger trains that do run derail. They will get used to hearing"No entiendo Ingles", "no comprende", "no tengo plata", "no trenes hoy, fue un accidente en bajo mierda". Spanish for (No English, Don't understand, no money, no trains today, and there was an accident in bajo mierda). Mind, not all of these countries speak Spanish, just I cannot speak much Thai, noone understands Malay, and Cantonese does'nt exactly type well into 'Romanji'.

Who knows, they might even meet the lust of their life in some of these countries. "Me lub you long time, we go hotel dahlink". Join the 60 kph club on the way back home. Hopefully they will check for the Adams Apple, otherwise they could be part of the crying game. In more ways than one . And they'll get shunted, and she will be the shunter.

dowlingm

dermo88 wrote:

Ivatt could be Brian Guckian

I have been told that they are one and the same after posting about one of his press releases.

SeanW

murphaph wrote:

They banned me for less dermo, don't know how you have survived this long! Pity we can't send all those loons (the homegrown ones too) to Romania!

And me too, for even less than Philip! To be 'fair' though, I did goad them with my screen name "P11Supporter" IRN is extremely hostile to P11 types and my screen name may as well have been "Ban Me Plz" lol. Muppets.

It's like a rag-bag of trainspotters like T21fan described, and some other wierdos like communists or something.

popebenny16

Sure they wouldn't even let Derek register. It's destroyed him professionally and personally. He's a shell of a man now. Lost and alone in the wilderness, waving at the ghost trains in his mind.

I'm not banned though. So there.

Our man in Havana

It shouldn't be be called Irish Railway news for a start. How about calling it "British anorak society away meetings" ? That's where most of them on IRN are from.

Transport21 Fan

http://www.sligoweekender.ie/news/story.asp?j=32830&cat=news

Sligo Weekender
Tuesday, May 22, 2007

Ambitious idea for rail link between Sligo-Derry

NOVEL new proposals to extend the Western Rail Corridor from Sligo to Derry were unveiled at a public meeting last week at the Abbey Hotel, Donegal.

It was suggested that such a link from Sligo, serving Bundoran, Ballyshannon, Donegal town, Ballybofey/Stranorlar and Letterkenny, would not just provide a new rail artery to the North West but would complete a new round-Ireland rail route, taking in Derry, Sligo, Galway, Limerick, Waterford, Dublin and Belfast.

The plan has been proposed by a Dublin-based rail and integrated transport researcher Brian Guckian, who said this could have a major impact on tourism as well as generating other significant benefits in the general transportation and freight logistics.

The proposals have been broken down into three major, inter-connected, subprojects. These comprise Sligo to Donegal Town, Donegal to Letterkenny and Letterkenny to Derry.

These have been designed, except for some relatively short sections, to re-use former rail alignments in the region, significantly reducing costs.

It is claimed that an initial outline cost-benefit analysis had shown that the proposed routes could recoup their capital investment within a ten-year period.

Mr Guckian pointed out that the Sligo-Donegal and Letterkenny-Derry projects had already been included in a proposed

•2.5 billion passenger and freight rail investment programme known as the Inter-City Network Extensions programme, or NEXT for short, which he had submitted to government in 2005. He said the Done-gal-Letterkenny proposal formed a critical “missing link” in the plan, which could be completed for an additional estimated •270 million. “Furthermore, the NEXT rail investment programme, if adopted, would form just over seven per cent of current envisaged Transport 21 expenditure, with the connecting Donegal-Letterkenny project comprising just under one per cent. Funding could also come from existing Cross-Border and EU mechanisms in the region.”

Mr Guckian said that preliminary engineering and economic appraisal work had shown that the proposals were feasible.

He stressed that the severe environ-mental and related economic challenges now facing Ireland meant that consideration of proposals of this nature was now both appropriate and desirable.

He said that a study he carried out in 2005 had shown that the cost of car dependency alone in Ireland was running at an estimated •14 billion per annum, or greater than the total amount of foreign direct investment into the country in 2004.

Mr Guckian stated that there was an urgent requirement to tackle car and lorry-dependency in transport, which was responsible for driving up Ireland’s greenhouse gas emissions and air pollution levels, and which had led to unsustainable levels of energy consumption and dependency on non-renewable fossil fuels. This was having, and would continue to have, very costly consequences, he said.

Rail development was playing a key role in dealing with these problems, as well providing other very important functions in terms of strengthening the autonomy of local communities and the facilitation of balanced, sustainable regional development.

Zoney

EDIT: I should read the dates of posts before replying. No use bringing up old stuff.

dermo88

A one way trip is on its way to Brian Guckian to a congested impoverished city of 10 million people with no rail based public transport, or at best dreadful public transport.

Lets take this weeks selections.

1. Lagos, Nigeria
2. Nairobi, Kenya

Go on the missions, help humanitarian causes. Theres a lot more. Brutal dictators, AIDS, poverty, hunger, and rail transport falls way way down the list. For you its a hobby. For the rest of us, there are bigger issues.

Such as studying, working, drinking, getting laid. Do a bit more of that, and a bit less of interfering with real railways. For every proposal you've made, nothing, not an inch has been built. One day maybe, and maybe we'll need it. Keep those proposals and alignments and dust them down.

Throw in any more from around the world that are utterly ****. I've seen plenty of excuses for rail services, and don't need to elaborate. Irish Rail, for their size are about to become something we can be proud of, for a small Island of 5 million. Something we can use all the time, not just on the Bank Holiday weekend to visit relations in the west, and see that nice mountain railway.

Just don't inflict this muck on us in Ireland.
_______________________________________________________________

Ah yes.....tourism.

Now, not being cynical to Mr Guckian, he does have a point in mentioning "Holy Kyoto", and our Greenhouse emission rates. But he would be better served in dealing with the United States, which accounts for 30% of ALL global greenhouse emissions, and their excuse of a passenger rail outfit....Amtrak, is better off being buried. Forever.

Or the European Union, where there is no standardised Electric or Signalling system. Solving that would be far more effective than our little Island of 5 million on the edge of Europe. The share of railfreight on mainland Europe could then rise from its current level to something approaching the American level. Then you can talk about impacts on Holy Kyoto.

Ireland accounts for a fraction of that. We can develop road based renewable energy sources. Hydrogen Peroxide Walther Turbines being one mad option. Electric Power. In rural Ireland, cars are still going to be needed with a dispersed population. Trucks are still going to have to do the job.

As for his proposals, he would be better off looking across the border for cooperation, but while Translink are running their railways into the ground, IE are expanding. Its still not good enough for him.

I see no mention of Limerick, Cork, Galway, where there is TRUE potential.

I see no mention of Dublin.

These are the dangerous ravings of a rail enthusiast. Let us pray

"Our Todd, who art in Heuston, hallowed be thine name
Thine branch lines gone, enthusiasts moan
In Ireland as it is in Britain
Give us this day our daily train
And deliver us from Beeching
And lead us not into Phoenix Park
But deliver us from Cravens"

Altogether now.......let us pray.

"You believe in Branch lines, carrying next to nothing
You believe in Maedhbh, the greatest of steam engines
Born of a broke nation, she arose through the gullet
Crucified with Turf, and buried under Bulleid
A Metrovick replaced thee and did Dublin to Cork in 2 1/2 hours
She spoke through EMB, and replaced by a 201
Scrapped in Hammond Lane and turned to useful razorblades
We believe in Multiple Units
High Speed Trains
The Metro
The Interconnector
Buses that link with trains
Integrated Transport, and the end of CIE.

Amen.

Deliver us Todd from CIE, and in your spirit, Slipthru and the ILDA. Grant us rail to Navan in our time, and peace from breakdowns on the Enterprise in your day. In your mercy, keep us free of Baby GM's and Cravens, and keep 2900's off Intercity. May the Rotems be utterly reliable on test and last 40 years.

We ask this through Transport21,

Amen.

DerekP11

you missed this bit....

Mr. Guckian also demanded that all filmmakers in Donegal work with budgets starting at €10 million and all cinemas in the region fit 70mm projectors. It is hoped that the building of this new railway will be filmed and released across the nation. It has been reported that Robert de Niro will star and George Lucas will direct. However, rumours concerning the use of CGI to recreate parts of the line have been discounted. "CGI is not representative of the people. It has no truth. Its socially unjust trickery", added Mr. Guckian.

Transport21 Fan

dermo88 wrote:

"Our Todd, who art in Heuston, hallowed be thine name
Thine branch lines gone, enthusiasts moan
In Ireland as it is in Britain
Give us this day our daily train
And deliver us from Beeching
And lead us not into Phoenix Park
But deliver us from Cravens"

Dermo, you are a national treasure.

aliveandkicking

Transport21 Fan wrote:

VOTE LABOUR – If you want to Replace the Luas and Metro with Buses Stuck in Gridlock in Order to Indulge the CIE Unions

VOTE FINE GAEL – If you want the Interconnector Scrapped and the Western Rail Corridor Completed in Order to Indulge the Mayo Enclave

Vote Either Fianna Fail, Greens or PDs if you want to save Transport 21
(brought to you by the good folks of Transport 21 Fan - Have a Nice Day!)

This needs to be highlighted again. It is absolutely correct.

Transport21 Fan

aliveandkicking wrote:

This needs to be highlighted again. It is absolutely correct.

Looking quite good too.

With Fine Gael and Labour out of Government the Interconnector looks very safe, while the Luas and Metro are dead certs for completion. Even if Labour get in with FF (very unlikely now) they would not have the power to carry out their orders from Liberty Hall to destroy Metro and Luas.

So all in all a very good result for rapid transit development in Ireland. Even Martin Cullen did very well. So the Transport21 project is safe and sound.