Light Rail for Cork - Me vs. The Green Party

Chris_533976

Ok on Archiseek the Green Partys proposal for Light Rail for Cork City was posted. I thought it was a pile of electioneering and was a rubbish system in the middle of nowhere that didnt integrate anything.

http://www.eamonryan.ie/images/corkmapa001.jpg

Now I dont necessarily agree with a Light Rail for Cork... heavy bus investment would do the job nicely. But I've long thought what a Cork Luas might look like, so heres how I would do it.

Thoughts on this? Or improvements? Or is it just plain crap?

Overview
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/THE_Chris533976/corklightrail1.jpg

Closeup
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/THE_Chris533976/corklightrail2.jpg

Thoughts on this? Have the Green Party lost it completely?

Calina

Chris,

I'm of the opinion that Cork merits some sort of a rail based system and that work in this area should have started five years ago. The city is big enough both in terms of area/population for it to to merit consideration. I say this because I've seen a very good system go into Bordeaux which is analagous population-wise. That being said, it's also fair to say that construction wise it could be difficult in Cork given the lay out of the city over the land.

That being said: I think your plan is significantly better than the Green Party's, but that doesn't hugely surprise me. I'd probably drag it out as far as Blarney (you stop short of it) if at all possible.

In conjunction with implementing a system such as this in Cork (and indeed in Dublin), there needs to be a little more joined up thinking in terms of how it will then fit in with the bus system which should also complement it, not compete with it. I realise that if there are any PDs in the vicinity they'll probably choke on their cornflakes. My main concern about Dublin is that this is not being considered and that things like Luases and buses are not being seen as a team with which the city can be kept moving but as two small fighting dogs whose aim is to beat each other. At least, this is the vision I have of transport planning in Dublin. I wouldn't like to see the same happen in Dublin.

We've had so called investment in the bus system in Dublin for years with new buses being bought all the time, but in fact, it's sticking plaster planning at best with many of those new buses being replacement for dying old mammas. The truth is, there is a strong tendancy in this country to do as little as it is possible to get away with - the Luas in Dublin is a case in point - it is too little, very late, and overbudget. The truth is no one wants to plan for the future here, and that is true whether you are looking at Cork or Dublin. If you do some decent future planning for Cork, then a Luas is definitely the way to go because in 7 years time, you'll be going down the road again...and it'll cost even more then than it will if we start now.

dmeehan

there is/will be a heavy rail service to dunkettle so i dont think it would be a good idea to duplicate this with a light rail line

also, residents in blackrock have already rejected an idea for a busway using the old railway line, they want to keep it as it is, a walkway :rolleyes:

bk

I've said it many times, Luas for Cork is putting the cart before the horse.

While I'm not fundamentally against Luas for Cork, I think this is nothing but BS electioneering, that won't happen for at least 10 years, but politicians like to talk about because it is "sexy" while far more useful and important improvements that can be made right now are ignored because they aren't "sexy" and modern.

All of this reminds me of that Simpsons Episode where Springfield gets a monorail that goes nowhere.

The problem I have with it is that something like this would cost hundreds of millions to build, probably about 300 - 400 million, yet would only serve a small percentage of the population of Cork.

If you were to spend even a quarter of that, say 100 million, on improving the Cork bus service, it would have a far greater impact on improving public transport for everyone all over the city. The problem is that the Cork bus service is simply awful at the moment, completely underfunded and inefficient. Yet Cork actually has a quite a good road network and traffic isn't all that bad. So if you had more buses, with far greater frequency, then you would solve most of Corks public transport problems.

I'm not saying Cork should never get a Luas, but it wouldn't happen for 10 years, so in the meantime, we need to fix the current problems. Once Cork has a high quality, high capacity, frequent bus service that equals Dublin Bus, then we can look at the possibility of a Luas on routes that even such a good bus service aren't serving. But until that happens, Luas for Cork is just a waste of time and nothing but empty promises.

Really I'm not surprised by any of this from the Green Party. As an environmentalist myself, I think that the Green Party are the worst thing to ever happen to the environmental movement. Their policys and ideas are balmy and not based in reality and often do more to damage the environment, rather then help.

MLM

I got talking to a planning consultant one night in the pub. I asked her does Cork need a LUAS. She nearly ate the head off me! She basically said that Cork should have had something like a LUAS years ago and went on a rant about lack of vision, dickheads, politicians, Nimby's etc. She continued, giving me stats, and examples of several other similar european cities who've managed to get over this sort of issue years ago. The Netherlands got mentioned a lot.
Anyway, Cork needs a LUAS, Cork needs a much better bus service. Cork needs a dedicated transport authority for the Cork Metropolitan area, i. e. one organisation separate from IR or BE who run an integrated Suburban rail, bus, and LUAS service.
I like the fact that at least one political party is putting this on the agenda, but their actual plan is weak. There is far too much on street running which if you look at the Dublin experience really slows things down. The best route for a LUAS line would be to use the old Passage West rail line out to Carrigaline. The route has been maintained as a right of way since the 1978 LUTS plan so there would be no need for expensive CPO's etc. It opens up so many opportunities for the city it is simply a success story waiting to happen. Firstly you give Carrigaline, the most car dependant town in Ireland, a viable public transport option. A spur line could be run from Raheen to Haulbowline opening up the re-development of that island. This then links into the car ferry, the industrial area, on to Monkstown, a link with the Carrigloe car ferry (and on to Cobh, Fota, Little Island, Midleton via suburban rail), on to Passage, to Rochestown, to the whole Mahon Point area, to Blackrock (the Eden development is already flying up), Re-developed Pairc Ui Caoimh/showgrounds, a new city park, and a new university campus.
Most important of all it will serve the docklands an area which is envisaged to house 20,000 people and over 6 million sq foot of new retail/ office uses with up to 30,000 jobs. This development alone will need LRT. The roads planned for that area would not be able to cope.
Cork City managers, politicians, businessmen etc keep on blowing on about how the docklands can transform Cork into a renowned international location. Its time to have a bit of vision and talk, think, and act big.
Oh and as for those Blackrock residents who want to preserve the walkway. Find somewhere else to walk! Its not actually that difficult. Have you heard of footpaths? Just in case you're not sure, in general, if you live in a city, and there's roads; you tend to find footpaths at the side of the roads. Sometimes, even both sides of the roads! I can't believe this is even an issue.
BTW said Planning Consultant doesn't work in Ireland.

bill_ashmount

I'd be happy with a proper bus system. It's an absolute disgrace at the moment. I've tried to use it but it's impossible. It's so unreliable it's not even funny, grand if you aren't in a rush and can afford to wait around all day but not if you need to be somewhere at a specific time (i.e. work)
Also tried cycling (which would be my preferred option, but it is way too dangerous).
IMO this LUAS talk is blatant electioneering, I'd be surprised if it is mentioned again after the election is finished.
Couldn't they use the money to build a proper bus system along with dedicated cycle paths. Until they do I'm stuck with using my car. :mad:

bk

MLM wrote:

Most important of all it will serve the docklands an area which is envisaged to house 20,000 people and over 6 million sq foot of new retail/ office uses with up to 30,000 jobs. This development alone will need LRT.

Actually, interestingly the biggest problem with the docklands scheme at the moment is that there simply isn't enough electrical power in the city to power the development. A whole new power station needs to be built to power it, that is actually what is delaying the redevelopment of the docklands.

jank

I agree that cork needs its own authtotity to manage its own transport system.
**** CIE!

The bus system needs to be improved. You ask any FF or PD politican in cork and they will harp on about these green routes. What the **** do they do? They painted a few lines on the road and that was it! Cork people are supposed to be happy with that.
More buses are a priority

The light rail issue should be serioulsly looked at. As mentioned ballincolig and carrigaline are primed to be given this option. It would certinly improve things in the area for frustrated commuters.

Lets not wait until it is too late and cork becomes another dublin!!

Ham'nd'egger

Ah, this brings back memories of Dustin running for office....

Bringing the Dart to Dingle