Attic Ladder

Chaz

Hi All,

Bought what looked to be a standard attic ladder to allow easy access to the attic area.

Measured the width and it was 22inches. Checked my beams, 22inches apart - perfect - or so I thought.

Noticed now (After making a decent size hole in the roof boards) that the inside is 22inches, however it protudes another inch or so in total. Am I expected (or should I) to cut a square bit out of the main cross beams to allow this to fit?

What have I missed? Structurally this might be a problem to make this cut? Ill take photos a bit later if required.

Mellor

It depends on where you plan on cutting the beam, there are guidlines, but most likely either the access will be in the wrong place (certain areas not allowed to notch) or the notchs will be too big. To make this fit you really need to cut a section of joist out, and install trimmer joists to supportthe cut joist on the nearby joists.
The bst thing to do is to return the dtairs for one that will fit easir, and check the size next time

Chaz

Im not sure I understand all the terms - but get the gist of it. Point taken on measurement, however Im willing to guess this is the standard items size and I wont find one an inch larger ......

Will go look tomorrow.

311

I thought when you install a ladder like that ,you need a small finish around the opening ,like wood or something.
I think you need to screw wood onto your joists and install the ladder onto them. Then tack a wooden fram around the opening ,to save you plastering.

I've never installed one ,so forgive me if I'm speaking out of turn.

Chaz

Brian, you are right. The issue is that the frame does not fit in between the beams ..... theres just too much width. Yet the actual part that moves is exactly the same size - doesnt make sense.

311

I've spoken out of turn then ,I'm only a plumber going on experience of other peoples houses.
Just don't cut anything that spans from wall to wall in your attic.
Sorry

Chaz

No, I appreciate teh input.

While I have you (as a plumber) ..... suggestions on best method to get a tap outside? Plumb off the cold water feed going to washing machine? Any suggestions how to get sturdy tap mounted onto/into wall?

Id rather do electric work that plumbing ......

So your suggestion is not to cut a groove, roughly 50% of the width of the beam about 1meter long? I would have suspected the frame of the attic stairs would give some strength back due to it being screwed in place?

311

Excuse the pun ,but I'm a little sloshed at the moment.

With regards to your outside tap ,you need to locate a pipe in the kitchen that is cold and from the tank.
If your concerned about fixing the tap to the wall ,I could help you out with it . If you live in dublin ,I think it's about time I actually did something for someone here on boards .

With regards to your attic ,in my mind any wood spanning an attic from wall to wall is supporting the the roof itself ,from the joist they are sitting on
If you have a plank of wood crossing a pond and cut a piece from the centre ,it will crack if you stand on it.

Chaz

_Brian_ wrote:

Excuse the pun ,but I'm a little sloshed at the moment.

With regards to your outside tap ,you need to locate a pipe in the kitchen that is cold and from the tank.
If your concerned about fixing the tap to the wall ,I could help you out with it . If you live in dublin ,I think it's about time I actually did something for someone here one boards .

With regards to your attic ,in my mind any wood spanning an attic from wall to wall is supporting the the roof itself ,from the joist they are sitting on
If you have a plank of wood crossing a pond and cut a piece from the centre ,it will crack if you stand on it.

Thanks for the offer, im in Dundalk sadly.

Agreed on the plank of wood, the question here - where is the stress of the members? My guess is at the points where there is a connection from the roof, which is not in the centres in my case.

Cal

If cutting a joist just bridge the gap with another piece of similar wood so as to share the load 50/50 between the neighbouring joists. Attached sketch is rough but explanatory I hope.

Sketch.JPG

As for the garden tap. You should be fine tapping into the cold feed for the washing machine. Check out your local DIY store for garden taps. They come in different forms and are easily wall mounted.

Cal.

Chaz

I dont even need to cut through - just make space. Lemme try my hand at paint and show whats needed.

Chaz

The joists are the long cross members. There needs to be a part cut out to allow the slightly wider attic door to be installed. Hope my pic makes sense.

Cal

There you are weakening two joists. Brace both ends and also brace adjoining joists for maximum support. You could also add extra support behind the areas you are removing/weakening.

Cal.

Chaz

Thanks. An option is to simply cut one deeper, although I am concerned that not much will be left. Point taken on putting cross members above and below for added strength as well as adjacent/across from both of those to their respective neighbours.

I bought a loft ladder recently and found that it was 1cm wider than the opening between the joists, I dismantled the frame and cut 1cm from the ends and from the trapdoor and reassembled it.

Looks like it was made that size now, perfect fit!

Chaz

Thats exactly whats happening here. 9mm on each side too much. Ive already started taking things down ..... although considered modifying the actual door. My concern was not being able to get it nice and straight.

SoBe

my paint skilz suck but this would be the correct way to do it.



hope this helps

Mellor

Mellor wrote:

To make this fit you really need to cut a section of joist out, and install trimmer joists to support the cut joist on the nearby joists.

Thats what the ms paint pics are trying to describe, cut one joist and support it. I can do a decent drawing if you need it,

regarding notching the joists, the amount you want to notch is way way too much, the joists will be too weak.

Chaz wrote:

where is the stress of the members? My guess is at the points where there is a connection from the roof, which is not in the centres in my case.

Nope, the its right in the centre. Maximum bending moment there.
You aren't supposed to notch in the middle or at the very edges, only the centre of each half, if that makes sense,

install trimmers, or get a smaller door, or alter the door

Chaz

Well, its in. Used a router and removed roughly 9mm from each beam. Not the prettiest - but in. Will do some more strengthening around the area later in the week.

Time to relax - sore from all the work and man handling the unit into place.

Thanks !

oleras

speaking of bad paint skills.....lol.......first time using it...........

Going to have to do this myself, was thinking along these lines......

Chaz

Thanks - I couldnt see myself cutting the beam ---- its in now - all that matters (and looks to be sturdy).