Where does the soul come from?

axer

Hi,

I was baptised a Catholic and brought up as a catholic learning off all those questions etc. I no longer feel I am a catholic anymore but I have a question about christianity if that is ok.

Where does the soul come from? i.e. from what I understand if I was a Catholic I would not believe in reincarnation. So, does God create each new baby's soul or what is the official line?

Thanks for any replies.

philologos

God fills us with the Holy Spirit, which is essentially a part of him which He has given us all. This would be considered the soul. Please correct me anyone has anything different, I'm not 100% certain myself, it's what i've been led to believe.

PDN

The Bible speaks about our spirit, soul & body.

The body is obvious. The Greek word for soul is actually psyche and this gives us a clue about its meaning. It is the mind, will & emotions. The spirit is that part of us which was made to share fellowship with God.

Before we receive Christ as Saviour our bodies and souls function, but the Bible says our spirits are dead. When we receive Christ as our Saviour by faith, then God's Holy Spirit enters us and quickens (or makes alive) our spirits, enabling us to communicate with God.

So, yes, God does create each new baby's soul, or psyche.

Juza1973

Jakkass wrote:

God fills us with the Holy Spirit, which is essentially a part of him which He has given us all. This would be considered the soul. Please correct me anyone has anything different, I'm not 100% certain myself, it's what i've been led to believe.

Well no...

The Holy Spirit is God and when we receive it we have a part of God forever with us, but if our soul were God it would be completely another religion since we would be God ourselves. Our individual soul is given to us when we are created and it is the higher part of ourselves. It is not the mind or the emotion, who animals also have. It is the part of us that is eternal, and is not destroyed when we die.

PDN

Interestingly, Revelation 8:9 refers to the creatures living in the sea as having a psyche. This is exactly the same Greek word translated as 'soul' in respect to persons.

In Hebrew, the word for soul is nephesh and it is consistently used for both men and animals.

I am open to correction on this, but I have yet to see anyone show anywhere in the Bible where it states that animals do not have souls. This would appear to be a concept borrowed from Greek philosophy, not a Biblical teaching.

Scofflaw

PDN wrote:

Interestingly, Revelation 8:9 refers to the creatures living in the sea as having a psyche. This is exactly the same Greek word translated as 'soul' in respect to persons.

In Hebrew, the word for soul is nephesh and it is consistently used for both men and animals.

I am open to correction on this, but I have yet to see anyone show anywhere in the Bible where it states that animals do not have souls. This would appear to be a concept borrowed from Greek philosophy, not a Biblical teaching.

Aristotle, I think - the vegetable, animal, and human soul as far as I remember. Interestingly, Islam seems to have the same:

"al-nafs al-insaniyah

The human mind or soul. It possesses all the faculties and powers of the vegetable mind (al-nafs al-nabatiyah, q.v.) as well as those of the animal mind (al-nafs al-hayawaniyah, q.v.), but in addition hs the rational faculty (al-quwwat al-‘aqliyah, q.v.) peculiar to itself which has two forms: one theoretical or speculative (nazari) which enables man to have abstract thinking and the other practical (‘amali) on which morality depends."

Not too surprising, I suppose - another effect of Christendom, I think you would say?

cordially,
Scofflaw

philologos

if animals had souls would God have insisted on sacrificing them in the Old Testament? (and in the New Testament where Mary and Joseph sacrifice 2 doves).

PDN

Jakkass wrote:

if animals had souls would God have insisted on sacrificing them in the Old Testament? (and in the New Testament where Mary and Joseph sacrifice 2 doves).

Why not? God commanded the killing of people who have souls.

Maybe we are using the word 'soul' in different ways. The word as it is used in the Bible may mean no more than possessing life.

A lot of people confuse the soul and the spirit. Much religion panders to that which is soulish (giving people a good emotional feeling) instead of ministering to the spirit (a real relationship with God).

According to Hebrews 4:12, God's Word can divide between soul and spirit.

ISAW

PDN wrote:

So, yes, God does create each new baby's soul, or psyche.

A tricky question but when?

When does the soul come into the body?
If before birth then how long?
What is the llimit at which ensoulment couldn't happen?

J C

PDN wrote:

The Bible speaks about our spirit, soul & body.

The body is obvious. The Greek word for soul is actually psyche and this gives us a clue about its meaning. It is the mind, will & emotions. The spirit is that part of us which was made to share fellowship with God.

Before we receive Christ as Saviour our bodies and souls function, but the Bible says our spirits are dead. When we receive Christ as our Saviour by faith, then God's Holy Spirit enters us and quickens (or makes alive) our spirits, enabling us to communicate with God.

So, yes, God does create each new baby's soul, or psyche.

God entered His rest from Creation on the Seventh Day of Creation - and He continues in His rest - so He does not directly create anything at present (including babies souls).

Humans have the God-given power to generate both the bodies and souls of their children at the moment of fertilisation.

Our bodies are mortal - but they will be restored to eternal perfection after Jesus Christ's return.

Our souls are eternal and they provide us with our Human minds, wills and personalities - our personhood, if you will.

You are correct that our Spirits are dead until we receive Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour by faith.
God's Holy Spirit then indwells us and quickens (or makes alive) our spirits, enabling us to communicate with God.:)

Cardinal

J C wrote:

Our souls are eternal and they provide us with our Human minds, wills and personalities - our personhood, if you will.

What do out brains do?

If part of someone's brain is damaged and their mind suffers reduced functionality is their soul altered? is this alteration eternal? What I mean to ask is that if a soul provides our mind, will and personality is our soul affected when these things are affected?

Consider an example of someone with a degenerative mental condition. Slowly their mind is destroyed. Does their soul remain the same as it was at the beinging of the degenerative process? If the soul is providing the mind why does the mind not continue as the brain is destroyed? Or maybe the soul only initiates the mind and afterward has no interaction with it, in which case nothing we do affects our immortal soul.

BrianCalgary

Cardinal wrote:

What do out brains do?

If part of someone's brain is damaged and their mind suffers reduced functionality is their soul altered? is this alteration eternal? What I mean to ask is that if a soul provides our mind, will and personality is our soul affected when these things are affected?

Consider an example of someone with a degenerative mental condition. Slowly their mind is destroyed. Does their soul remain the same as it was at the beinging of the degenerative process? If the soul is providing the mind why does the mind not continue as the brain is destroyed? Or maybe the soul only initiates the mind and afterward has no interaction with it, in which case nothing we do affects our immortal soul.

No affect on the soul. A whole new body awaits in Heaven.

Cardinal

How does a soul give someone their mind? At what point is science wrong in attributing the mind to mechanics within the brain?

Son Goku

BrianCalgary wrote:

No affect on the soul. A whole new body awaits in Heaven.

What happens to the "old" you, that was tied up with your memories and experiences. When your brain goes, they go. I've worked in homes for the elderly and for a lot of those people their old personalities are dead, all that remains is a shadow, which can often be somebody with a completely different personality.
In fact one guy in the home used to be a practising catholic and then became an atheist after a stroke, because he couldn't abstracify enough to understand the concept of a God.
I'm not being purposefully difficult, but what elements of "you" does your soul carry? Will these people go back to their old selves?*

robindch

I've always wondered what people think they will become when dead -- will an old person expect to revert to the personality and opinions they had when they were 35? Or a teenager who didn't make it, would they be expected to mature to the point that they would have got to, had they not died? Or somebody who suffered brain damage, or some awful emotional experience -- what happens them?

I've never got an answer, satisfactory or otherwise, so feel free to make suggestions. Marks will be deducted for saying something platonic like "they will become perfect", as that doesn't answer the question!

BrianCalgary

Robin and son goku have very similar questions. My expectation is that I will get my body at full maturity and at peak physiacl shape without any deformities.

Ie, my allergies will be gone, my old elbow football injury will disappear, etc.

If I were to suffer a stroke as the fellow you know sg, I would say that my salvation was secure based on the decision made with sound mind. After the stroke am I operating on full capacity sound mind?

On resurrection I'd have my full health back.

In the case of a child going, they would also recieve their full mature healthy body.

I think about age 19 or 20.

Son Goku

BrianCalgary wrote:

If I were to suffer a stroke as the fellow you know sg, I would say that my salvation was secure based on the decision made with sound mind. After the stroke am I operating on full capacity sound mind?

Ah, right. Fair enough. If you're actually getting back your physical body in peak condition then that makes sense.

robindch

BrianCalgary wrote:

My expectation is that I will get my body at full maturity and at peak physiacl shape without any deformities.

On the physical side, that's much what I expected.

But I'm specifically more interested in what people think will happen to their beliefs -- so, you wake up after dying in a state of physical excellence: do you believe all the same things as you did before? Or do your opinions revert to what they were when you were in this state of excellence? Or is something else believed to happen?

I'm interested coz people have a tendency to become more religious (amongst other things) as they get older and it seems weird that they would believe that they would arrive in heaven with fine bodies, but with the grumpy opinions of a 75-year old, or else arrive there with fine bodies run by teenager minds (and who would presumably recall that their beliefs had changed).

Can any light be shed on this? Or is it something that doesn't come up?

BrianCalgary

robindch wrote:

On the physical side, that's much what I expected.

But I'm specifically more interested in what people think will happen to their beliefs -- so, you wake up after dying in a state of physical excellence: do you believe all the same things as you did before? Or do your opinions revert to what they were when you were in this state of excellence? Or is something else believed to happen?

I'm interested coz people have a tendency to become more religious (amongst other things) as they get older and it seems weird that they would believe that they would arrive in heaven with fine bodies, but with the grumpy opinions of a 75-year old, or else arrive there with fine bodies run by teenager minds (and who would presumably recall that their beliefs had changed).

Can any light be shed on this? Or is it something that doesn't come up?

I have no idea. Although I chuckle at the thought of a bunch of grumpy old men as youngsters.

I honestly don't know. I am arriving in Heaven with the attitude of meeting a whole bunch of new people and the opportunity to explore and discover all of creation.

I picture great food and fellowship. The best football pitches and wonderfullt groomed runs for some outstanding skiing.

My beliefs are prepared to change as the truth will become clear.

PDN

BrianCalgary wrote:

In the case of a child going, they would also recieve their full mature healthy body.

I think about age 19 or 20.

Like Tom Hanks in the movie "Big".

I never thought of that before. Heaven should be fun!

im_invisible

robindch wrote:

I've always wondered what people think they will become when dead -- Marks will be deducted for saying something platonic like "they will become perfect", as that doesn't answer the question!

i think the whole question of the phisical state of the person after death is pretty meaningless, and the mental side? well i didnt know untill today that the spirit and the soul arnt the same, but, i mean, how many versions of christianity are there? and i dont know if the born-again veiw of things is in accordance with the OP's catholic veiw, or the answer he'd get from a catholic priest, but i think, when we die, we will get to know God, and be a part of him, and yeah, become perfect,,

but then its all speculation, isnt it

robindch

brianCalgary wrote:

I picture great food and fellowship. The best football pitches and wonderfullt groomed runs for some outstanding skiing.

...which reminds me of the post where, afair, you mentioned that it would be the job of the appropriately-believing dead to sing the praises of the deity for all eternity. Nuthin' 'bout football pitches and skiing. While the latter sounds fun, the former sounds like pure hell to me

BrianCalgary

robindch wrote:

...which reminds me of the post where, afair, you mentioned that it would be the job of the appropriately-believing dead to sing the praises of the deity for all eternity. Nuthin' 'bout football pitches and skiing. While the latter sounds fun, the former sounds like pure hell to me

I don't think that was me. We have a retired mssionary who looks forward to an eternity of worship and praise singing in the presence of our Lord. She can't fathom football and skiing in Heaven.

Her idea of Heaven wouldn't impress me too much. But maybe God will give her that opportunity to do so, whilst I'm off on my journey of discovery.

I liken Heaven to teh Garden of Eden. Man was created for eternity, in a garden with food, animals and activities. As well as intended fellowship, hence Adam and Eve.

Since Heaven is the restoration of man's intended state, then HEaven will have fellowship and activities.