How far are we from an Irish MMA Contender

Stoner

Just wondering how far we are from seeing an Irish contender in the UFC or Pride?
Are the Irish lads totally off the pace or is there a rapid catch up in progress?
thanks

mark.leonard

Dude! Two irish fighters have already signed contracts for the UFC, Colin Robinson and Stevie Lynch, with quite a few more barking at the door.

Stoner

Great stuff, is that this Stevie Lynch

http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/fightfinder.asp?FighterID=15882

that's great news, I've been wondering for a while what the story with this was, the last event I went to was a while back, Bushido Rings I think it was called, the last fight never happened if you remember that.

anyway it will be good to track the progress of the guys thanks fo rthe info

dlofnep

Although we'll have some guys on the UFC, respectively - I think it's still a few years away before we have MMA standouts. The UK is a much bigger country who are years ahead of us in MMA, but they are still finding it hard to put guys in there who can compete at the highest level.

But there's no rush, really.. I love the local level fights in Ireland. Guys have nothing to lose, no pressure - everything to gain. Some of the best scraps I've seen in MMA have been at local level.

I'm glad there is an avenue for alot of people to get a name for themselves in MMA today, even in little old Ireland.

Stoner

thanks for the info, also I can only assume that the influx of non nationals has had a positive effect on the range of skills availbale. I guess it's all about a good fight at the end f the day and if we are getting that then we should be happy, buy the sounds of it things have improved since the Buhido rings event I saw

eoghan.geraghty

Stoner get yourself to the <snip>, should be a great advertisement for mma in ireland.

O'Leprosy

And still could be, I have no doubt. The Big Bad Wolfe had BUCKETS of talent - striking or grappling. Wasn't he the second purple belt in BJJ in Ireland after John Kavanagh ? He was in bad luck though with injuries etc, even a car accident or something. But what a fighter. Don't think an MMA fight of his went past the first round. Maybe some will think I'm exadgerating, but he was the kind of guy, with his undoubted ability, and access to top coaches, who could have done well on the Ultimate Fighter. Let's hope he's back again.

goo

mark.leonard wrote:

Dude! Two irish fighters have already signed contracts for the UFC, Colin Robinson and Stevie Lynch, with quite a few more barking at the door.

This only happened recently, mind.
Still huge news for the two guys, hope they do well.

Francis Galvin

O'Leprosy wrote:

And still could be, I have no doubt. The Big Bad Wolfe had BUCKETS of talent - striking or grappling. Wasn't he the second purple belt in BJJ in Ireland after John Kavanagh ? He was in bad luck though with injuries etc, even a car accident or something. But what a fighter. Don't think an MMA fight of his went past the first round. Maybe some will think I'm exadgerating, but he was the kind of guy, with his undoubted ability, and access to top coaches, who could have done well on the Ultimate Fighter. Let's hope he's back again.

couldn't agree more about dave roche. las time i spoke to him he was very busy with his business but he reckoned he would be back eventually. if any1 had the natural ability to get the very top of the sport it was him.

Stoner

It was dave roche io went to see that night in the point, but his hand was busted so he couldn't fight. I've met him before out and about, I work with his brother.

Anyway to the point for the 26th, thanks for the info

O'Leprosy

Also 'was' a good MMAer, (not in Dave Roche's class mind you). Seen him in the Ring of Truth. Had good groundwork. Remember him doing a cart wheel guard pass and getting one of the loudest cheers that night. Is he still invovled in MMA ?

Roper

Tim made so much money from his cartwheel guard passing and ten second knockout seminars that he was able to retire.

Seriously, he was on a break for a while but I'm sure he'll be back entertaining us again!

Pride Fighter

Ireland wont have a true MMA contender for a generation I think. The martial arts coaches in Ireland are second to none however the lack of specialist skills in key areas such as grappling means we wont have any soon. To speed it up we would need a Gracie to set up a school in Dublin but this wont happen. What is likely is that a few enterprising fighters from Ireland will leave to go to Japan or the US and learn from the best,such as a Gracie or a Sakuraba or other great submission specialist. It would take a decade to learn these skills to a high level and another decade to pass them on. Martial arts in Ireland is strong, it will take a while longer to get strong enough for real MMA contenders though.

the lack of specialist skills in key areas such as grappling means we wont have any soon.

Yeah I was just thinking John Kavanagh is a crap grappler. By no means a specialist. :rolleyes:

As for Zhifco and co. Couldn't wrestle their way out of a paper bag. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Have you even trained BJJ or wrestling in Dublin?

Stoner

Pride Fighter wrote:

To speed it up we would need a Gracie to set up a school in Dublin but this wont happen. .

A Gracie stayed with Dave Roche about 3 years ago in Ballymun (he as only 18 but seriously good), I thought the idea was that some sort of school was on the cards

Pride Fighter

Even if its a Gracie we never heard of he should start a school. That would be the best way to advance grappling in Ireland and I would join. I have trained in BJJ but I disliked it as I felt I was not getting high level instruction. I have heard John Kavanagh is the only BJJ black belt in Ireland. We need far more. And we need ones with 10-20 years experience. I am considering taking up amateur wrestling in the summer. My takedowns and sprawls are borrowed from the TV!! I can stand and fight as I am a brown belt in Kenpo training nearly 6 years.

Mark Hamill

Pride Fighter wrote:

I have trained in BJJ but I disliked it as I felt I was not getting high level instruction.

Who did you train with?

mark.leonard

Pride Fighter really poor effort at trolling dude! Anyone actually in the game knows that you don't need a gracie to get top class grappling ability. We are lucky to have someone as good as John in Ireland, Brazil has been trying to extradite him to help out the faltering Gracie line for years now, but it looks like with John sticking in Ireland Darwin will take them all out in another ten years or so

Pride Fighter

I am not going to say names as that is rude. I respected them as competitors but I did not feel I was getting good instruction. BJJ is only in its infancy here as I stated. Maybe down the line our instructors will become world-class.

Mark Hamill

Pride Fighter wrote:

I am not going to say names as that is rude.

Rude? By not naming names you are implying that all coaches in Irealnd are poor coaches, is that not more rude? You didn'y think you had a great coach, its just your opinion, no-one will hold it against you.
If you don't want to name names then tell us in what way did you think your instruction was lacking?

Pride Fighter wrote:

I respected them as competitors but I did not feel I was getting good instruction. BJJ is only in its infancy here as I stated. Maybe down the line our instructors will become world-class.

If you saw them as competidors, then surely they were not supposed to be teaching anything? (I may have just missed your point in what you where trying to say here)

The Bored One

Pride Fighter wrote:

I am not going to say names as that is rude. I respected them as competitors but I did not feel I was getting good instruction. BJJ is only in its infancy here as I stated. Maybe down the line our instructors will become world-class.

What are you basing your opinions on the quality of the instruction on? What are you comparing it to?

Pride Fighter

I do not think they are poor coaches. Just not my cup of tea. The training was good but I think it is best to learn off people with at least a decade of experience. Thats just me.

I am respectful to all martial artists, the instruction was not like I expected as I carried out research and did not get the instruction I witnessed on books, dvds etc. i like BJJ I would just prefer to learn off a Brazillian.

The Bored One

Im pretty sure it took John Kavanagh ten years to get to black belt. There's your decade of experience right there.
And its funny, you're carrying over some of the prejudices of traditional arts over to the modern ones. Which sort of misses the point.

Mark Hamill

Pride Fighter wrote:

I do not think they are poor coaches. Just not my cup of tea. The training was good but I think it is best to learn off people with at least a decade of experience. Thats just me.

I would rather just learn off someone who was a good coach. The coach I have now doesn't have ten years of experience but he is a brilliant coach.

Pride Fighter wrote:

I am respectful to all martial artists, the instruction was not like I expected as I carried out research and did not get the instruction I witnessed on books, dvds etc. i like BJJ I would just prefer to learn off a Brazillian.

Thats like saying i want my french toast made by a frenchman, what makes you think that would make it any better? I think you need to forget the brazilian accent if you are serious about training.

Pride Fighter

I dont know a lot about Mr. Kavanagh. I was not instructed by him anyway. Where does he train? Maybe I will give him a try. I would love to learn off a Gracie, such as Renzo in New York or Rickson (LA I think) only because of their vast experience. It better be in Dublin as I am confined to public transport.

Mark Hamill

Pride Fighter wrote:

I dont know a lot about Mr. Kavanagh. I was not instructed by him anyway. Where does he train? Maybe I will give him a try. I would love to learn off a Gracie, such as Renzo in New York or Rickson (LA I think) only because of their vast experience. It better be in Dublin as I am confined to public transport.

North or South Dublin?
Here is the website for Johns gym: http://www.sbgireland.com/
It should have details on how to get there

Pride Fighter

South

Mark Hamill

Then (if you can't make it to Johns gym) try
Fiannagym: http://www.fiannagym.com/
Spartan MMA: website is down, its in firhouse (i can't remember the address and this is where i train :rolleyes: )

Otherwise there is SBG northside and KO martial arts in Glasnevin, but these are on the northside and i suppose would depend on wether you have access to the right bus routes where you live.
(there are more, but i can't remember the rest)

Pride Fighter

Muchos gracias. I will give it a whirl.

Clank

You want a brazilian with 10 years experience to teach you?Seriously?

Pride Fighter you've a very poor attitude towards training.

Nothingcompares

Pridefighter says: My stand-up is fine, I've 6 years of Kenpo. I want to learn a bit of ground to improve my overall fighting, I won't training with anyone in Ireland because they're not good enough to teach me.

Do you actually watch the ufc or pride? How many kenpo guys are there kicking ass? Did Fedor learn from the Gracies? Did Josh Barnett learn from the Gracies?

BobbyOLeary

I think it is best to learn off people with at least a decade of experience

Sorry to go off topic for a moment but this one really got me thinking. You say you study Kenpo yes (its where its at)? Would you not have studied under people who have less than a decade's experience? If all the instructors in your club who have ever taught you have more than a decades experience please tell me where you train! I want to check this place out! First Kenpo club I've ever heard of that has that many very experienced instructors.

Just curious as to whether this expectation is only applicable to arts that aren't your own? Or does Kenpo require less experience to teach correctly? Again I'm just curious.

Tim_Murphy

LOL at the line of reasoning, 'I want to be taught by the guys with the cool accents.' :rolleyes:

Tim made so much money from his cartwheel guard passing and ten second knockout seminars that he was able to retire.

Unfortunately I haven't been getting enough cartwheel seminars of late so I'll be making my comeback soon. :cool: Looks like it's going to be a good one too...

cowzerp

As far as i know bj penn got his black belt in bjj in 4 years and he is brilliant..

Clive

Eyyy, ma' frien' escooz ma Engleesh eez not goood, I ham from Brasil.

I teach you zhoo zheetsoo, no problem, €1000 per hour. Den we get somzhing to eat - you pay.

Francis Galvin

Clive wrote:

Eyyy, ma' frien' escooz ma Engleesh eez not goood, I ham from Brasil.

I teach you zhoo zheetsoo, no problem, €1000 per hour. Den we get somzhing to eat - you pay.

unfortunately not far off d mark of what u might hear

arybvtcw0eolkf

Clive wrote:

Eyyy, ma' frien' escooz ma Engleesh eez not goood, I ham from Brasil.

I teach you zhoo zheetsoo, no problem, €1000 per hour. Den we get somzhing to eat - you pay.

I'm 17 hours into a 24hr duty and feeling like sh*t, but that made me laugh. Thanks!.

Actually it made me laugh alot.

Clive

No prohhblem, ma frien' - to laugh eez a bootyfool esschange of energies - like ze zhoo zheetsoo.

dlofnep

Marcia Garcia, Jacare, Leo Viera are the world's best grapplers in their weight classes - You don't have to be a Gracie to be a great grappler, infact - even some of the best Gracie's like Renzo are finding it hard to compete anymore. Now Renzo's instruction is great, but there are lots of academies worldwide with great instruction not under the Gracie banner.

I can't believe you haven't even gone to train with JK yet - I would LOVE the opportunity to train with that guy everyday. The way he breaks down technique is great and easy to absorb. John is a great instructor and I've trained over in Roger Gracie's school, so it's not as if I haven't had the chance for some other instructors.

I see where you are coming from however and I think your original point has gone down the wrong path. There isn't enough high level instruction in Ireland. It's great if you live in Dublin, but outside of it - you're pretty much screwed..

But that doesn't stop people like Mark Leonard or Tim Murphy excelling in their game. They don't have the opportunity of training in Dublin everyday - but they don't whine about it, they get on with their training, attend seminars where possible and over the course of a few years have developed into good fighters.

If you have the mentality saying "oh, If I can't train with Dan Gable for wrestling, Freddie Roach for boxing, Roger Gracie for jiu-jitsu and Rob Kaman for muay thai.. then I'm not going to bother training at all" - you'll get nowhere.

Even over in the states, alot of the clubs don't have good instruction but their guys still get fights and still improve as fighters.

Would I like to see more wrestling, muay thai and BJJ instructors in Ireland? Damn right I would! But doesn't mean you should stop training until it happens.

connorc

I'm a irish guy training in london with Roger G. As far as i am concerned the biggest obstacle to a top Irish or UK contender in MMA at the moment is the Lack of Top Class Wrestling ( Greco and Freestyle ) instruction....

Even for BJJ guys up to purple belt it is a major problem when you go into the Europeans or whatever and the Eastern Europeans can come in and throw you around for a few mins (due to their wrestling backgrounds) then stall out a points win.

In North America they are producing these guys off a conveyor belt from the Colleges. These guys are top class and with 3 years BJJ and standup under their belts they are SERIOUSLY hard to beat.
see matt hughes, Chuck Liddel, John fitch, Sean Sherk, Randy Couture, Koscheck, Dean Lister, GSP etc etc etc

Now the only way to deal with guys like this is to have better BJJ and better Stand up........ That is no small task considering that the best BJJ instructors bar a handful all live in the states now and are training these guys.

As far as BJJ and stand up in the UK we have plenty top guys teaching ie Roger, Braulio Estima, Lagarto etc... and in Ireland you have SBG etc... There is also plenty of great boxing, Kickboxing and stand up places to learn... The main problem is wrestling.... I think when we have top tier wrestling also then we will see a lot more guys doing well at the highest level

Subbway

I agree that wrestling is really important because then you have control where the fight takes place.

In finland our problem is that we have plenty of good wrestlers and good wrestling coaches (Mainly greco) but MMA is still so small that they don't even know it exists. And i think even if they know about it they stick to wrestling and train people from really small age like under ten in hope of growing an future *******n or world champion.

Lately we have had couple of guys crossing to MMA and they have amazing physical tools and will do really well. They have been training greco since 5 years old. I guess solution to this is... Ireland needs to import great wrestlers/coaches from traditional wrestling countries . I am on myself thinking about starting greco when i go back to finland. Allthough i don't see myself finding gym who wants to teach 27 years old greco newbie :rolleyes:

dlofnep

connorc wrote:

I'm a irish guy training in london with Roger G. As far as i am concerned the biggest obstacle to a top Irish or UK contender in MMA at the moment is the Lack of Top Class Wrestling ( Greco and Freestyle ) instruction....

Even for BJJ guys up to purple belt it is a major problem when you go into the Europeans or whatever and the Eastern Europeans can come in and throw you around for a few mins (due to their wrestling backgrounds) then stall out a points win.

In North America they are producing these guys off a conveyor belt from the Colleges. These guys are top class and with 3 years BJJ and standup under their belts they are SERIOUSLY hard to beat.
see matt hughes, Chuck Liddel, John fitch, Sean Sherk, Randy Couture, Koscheck, Dean Lister, GSP etc etc etc

Now the only way to deal with guys like this is to have better BJJ and better Stand up........ That is no small task considering that the best BJJ instructors bar a handful all live in the states now and are training these guys.

As far as BJJ and stand up in the UK we have plenty top guys teaching ie Roger, Braulio Estima, Lagarto etc... and in Ireland you have SBG etc... There is also plenty of great boxing, Kickboxing and stand up places to learn... The main problem is wrestling.... I think when we have top tier wrestling also then we will see a lot more guys doing well at the highest level

How's Conor? Did you get your purple yet? Last time I saw you, we weren't exactly on speaking terms

John.