I know this is old but please read on

needle_too

I have taken legal advice on retailing Airsoft in Ireland.
This is the jist of the reply I got.

Criminal Justice Act 2006 states that

“firearm” means—

an air gun (including an air rifle and air pistol) with a
muzzle energy greater than one joule or any other
weapon incorporating a barrel from which any projectile
can be discharged with such a muzzle energy

Fiachs erarlier assertion was incorrect. The link is on page 35 here - http://www.justice.ie/80256E010039E882/vWeb/flJUSQ6UWJ7P-en/$File/CriminalJusticeAct06.pdf

Any weapon incorporating a barrel that can fire > 1 joule is a firearm.
Even though most Airsoft guns fire below this level the have a barrel that is capable of firing above this velocity and therefore require a license.

If the cops are turning a blind eye thats fine.

But there is no way that I (or anyone else) would gamble €100k on stock that is, to the letter of the law, illegal and could be seized.

The only retailers you have at the moment are gun shops - because proper professional gun safes are required to store the weapons - this is hugely expensive unless you are a gunsmith.

More 'nudge, nudge, wink, wink' half-arsed laws for ya...
So all you kids buying guns from abroad will continue to do so and more business and tax revenue will be exported.

ED E

Thats not good, thought they were 100% Legal:(

Dave!

What are you trying to say? That the barrel is the incriminating feature? It would have to be made of glass to be incapable of discharging a projectile with an energy of less than a joule. If that's the case then all of those kids' toys that fire nerf darts, or spud guns, are illegal too. The reason the legislation was amended was to change that.

I'm not a lawyer, but others with legal knowledge seem to think they're legal, and the Gardaí aren't "turning a blind eye" -- people were held because they were in possession of these guns. Then the Gardaí looked at the legislation and they seem to think they're legal, too.

It hasn't been tried in court yet (AFAIK), so I guess we can't be completely sure of their legality until that's the case, but I'm happy that there won't be any problems. And I'd say there's a good amount of people who are of a similar mind-set, and who will make a decent amount of money from airsoft in Ireland

EDIT:

I'm after re-reading your post and I still don't understand the problem.

“firearm” means—

an air gun (including an air rifle and air pistol) with a
muzzle energy greater than one joule or any other
weapon incorporating a barrel from which any projectile
can be discharged with such a muzzle energy


The muzzle energy in "such a muzzle energy" is 'greater than one joule'. If the air gun, or any other weapon incorporating a barrel, doesn't discharge a projectile with a muzzle energy greater 1J, then it's not illegal. What's the problem?

Can you explain the problem please?

And also, what do you mean by this:

More 'nudge, nudge, wink, wink' half-arsed laws for ya...
So all you kids buying guns from abroad will continue to do so and more business and tax revenue will be exported.

liamo333

DaveMcG wrote:

What are you trying to say? That the barrel is the incriminating feature? It would have to be made of glass to be incapable of discharging a projectile with an energy of less than a joule. If that's the case then all of those kids' toys that fire nerf darts, or spud guns, are illegal too. The reason the legislation was amended was to change that.

I'm not a lawyer, but others with legal knowledge seem to think they're legal, and the Gardaí aren't "turning a blind eye" -- people were held because they were in possession of these guns. Then the Gardaí looked at the legislation and they seem to think they're legal, too.

It hasn't been tried in court yet (AFAIK), so I guess we can't be completely sure of their legality until that's the case, but I'm happy that there won't be any problems. And I'd say there's a good amount of people who are of a similar mind-set, and who will make a decent amount of money from airsoft in Ireland

EDIT:

I'm after re-reading your post and I still don't understand the problem.

“firearm” means—

an air gun (including an air rifle and air pistol) with a
muzzle energy greater than one joule or any other
weapon incorporating a barrel from which any projectile
can be discharged with such a muzzle energy


The muzzle energy in "such a muzzle energy" is 'greater than one joule'. If the air gun, or any other weapon incorporating a barrel, doesn't discharge a projectile with a muzzle energy greater 1J, then it's not illegal. What's the problem?

Can you explain the problem please?

And also, what do you mean by this:

Quote:corporating a barrel from which any projectile
can be discharged with
I think what he means is that it says that these airsoft guns can fire projectiles at more than one joule and the law says that anything that can fire more than one joule is illegal.

Hivemind187

firearm” means—

an air gun (including an air rifle and air pistol) with a
muzzle energy greater than one joule or any other
weapon incorporating a barrel from which any projectile
can be discharged with such a muzzle energy


Read the sentence in the context it is printed [sic].

Simply having a barrel is not the lynch pin of the description. The key element here is "such a muzzle energy".

By the definition provided, if the device is below a muzzle energy of 1 joule, it does not meet the requirements for being a firearm. Ergo, Airsoft devices operating below the 1 joule limit do not qualify as firearms. QED.

In fact, read correctly, the definition categorically says Airsoft is not a firearm.

The issue of note right now is that their is little or no legislation regarding Airsoft specifically and because of that omission on the behalf of the law makers, Airsoft is open to attack from unfortunate misunderstandings and misconceptions.

Hivemind187

liamo333 wrote:

Quote:corporating a barrel from which any projectile
can be discharged with
I think what he means is that it says that these airsoft guns can fire projectiles at more than one joule and the law says that anything that can fire more than one joule is illegal.

That is semantics. The exact intent of meaning of "can" in this sense is debatable. Which is exactly the reason we want proper legislation on the issue of Airsoft.

Dave!

Liamo if that is the case, then as I mentioned, nerf guns and spud guns are firearms too. The Minister for Justice has said that the legislation was amended so that you only need a permit for a weapon which can cause significant harm, and 1J is the limit below which no significant harm is produced. As I said, the new legislation probably hasn't been tried in court yet, but if it is, then there isn't a judge in the country who would say that airsoft guns, and by extension (if needle_too is to be believed) spud guns, are firearms. If by some fluke, a mad-man judge decided otherwise, then it would surely be overturned on appeal.

End of story to be honest. If you don't wanna take the "chance" needle_too, then don't, but others will.

Having said that, I personally wouldn't import a large amount of AEGs because of the fragile nature of airsoft at the moment. If some kid gets a f*cked up eye from one of these, then there'll be outrage and the sport will end over night, thus your investment will be lost.

I just wish we could get the IAA set up ricky tick, so that they don't start selling them to kids........

needle_too

DaveMcG wrote:

What are you trying to say? That the barrel is the incriminating feature? It would have to be made of glass to be incapable of discharging a projectile with an energy of less than a joule. If that's the case then all of those kids' toys that fire nerf darts, or spud guns, are illegal too. The reason the legislation was amended was to change that.

Thats exactly correct.
If the barrel can fire above one joule, regardless of what it fires out of the box, then its a firearm.
Whether it fires BBs or M&Ms or little balls of cotton wool it makes no difference - if it is capable of firing above one Joule then its a firearm.
Thats the law - you need a licence for them.
I need an armourers licence to buy, store or sell them.

DaveMcG wrote:

I'm not a lawyer, but others with legal knowledge seem to think they're legal, and the Gardaí aren't "turning a blind eye" -- people were held because they were in possession of these guns. Then the Gardaí looked at the legislation and they seem to think they're legal, too.

I didnt ask people with legal knowledge - I paid a solicitor for the advice. He spoke to an armourer and unofficially to a garda officer.

DaveMcG wrote:

It hasn't been tried in court yet (AFAIK), so I guess we can't be completely sure of their legality until that's the case, but I'm happy that there won't be any problems.

Off you go. You pay the bills and have your stock seized until its sorted.
Let me know then I'll continue with the set up I had running last year.

DaveMcG wrote:

And I'd say there's a good amount of people who are of a similar mind-set, and who will make a decent amount of money from airsoft in Ireland

Yeah thats why there are so many shops opening all over the place. Cause its all perfectly legal and theres no risk of seizure.

DaveMcG wrote:

..... I still don't understand the problem.

With all due respect if you dont understand a problem this simple you shouldnt be considering opening a business - youre gonna lose your shirt.
All it takes is one complaint from a contrary old fart - the law as it stands will seize your stock and leave you open to possible possession of firearms charges.

I dont like it any more than you do, but thats the way it is.

needle_too

DaveMcG wrote:

The Minister for Justice has said that the legislation was amended so that you only need a permit for a weapon which can cause significant harm, and 1J is the limit below which no significant harm is produced. As I said, the new legislation probably hasn't been tried in court yet, but if it is, then there isn't a judge in the country who would say that airsoft guns, and by extension (if needle_too is to be believed) spud guns, are firearms. If by some fluke, a mad-man judge decided otherwise, then it would surely be overturned on appeal.

Trying legislation in court is expensive.
Other than that all you have is an opinion of what a judge might do.
I agree, its sh1te, but thats the way it is.

DaveMcG wrote:

I just wish we could get the IAA set up ricky tick, so that they don't start selling them to kids........

PM me.

Spitfire666

youve got it all wrong. a tube made of steel would be capable of firing a projectile upwards of 1 joule, why doesnt that need a gun licence.

If your going to argue that it need other parts, well, so does an out of the box airsoft gun so whoever you paid was a waste of money.

Your scare mongering and putting people off a legal and legit sport that is getting the backing of not only tourist boards but ministers aswell.

The IAA as it stands is getting nowhere fast. I hate to diss anyone who is making an effort but its being set up by people who in reality know very little about the sport and what it would take to set it up.
People who could be influential in it are being told nothing about it and of all the meetings held, what info has been shared?

CrazyRabbit

If an AEG fires at less than 1j, then it is legal according to statement you quoted. If the AEG was modified to be capable of firing at over 1j, then it becomes a firearm.

You are misintrepreting the meaning of the word 'can' in the context it is provided in.

It's can as in , 'it is curently capable', and not can as is 'it possibly at some point in the future.'

Granted, the wording is less than perfect english, but I think any judge in the country would clearly be able to understand the meaning behind the law and apply it correctly.

Spitfire666

i wouldnt worry about it at all. after all he paid somebody to look into it for him.

If he did do this, then he would know that laws in this country ar as written and thats it. theres no double meanins, thats why most of the law in confusing because it covers exacts.

kdouglas

OP: perhaps you should seek a second opinion?

as has been said before, the word can is not that important, it's the one joule limit that matters

o1s1n

OP, if they were illegal to import and own or import and sell, none of the many many airsofters on this board would have any gear. But we do.

Before the law change, any kind of airsoft devise which passed through Irish customs would have been seized. Since the change last August, most of us here have bought pieces. Many have bought several From all over the globe. I myself have imported one from the UK, one from America and one from China. If they were still illegal to own in Ireland unlicensed, there is no way I would have gotten any of these. Simple as that.

I personally know someone else interested in retail who imported quite a large amount which he received perfectly fine. I also know another person currently starting to set up an airsoft business which is NOT associated with a gun shop.

Basically, none of these people would even attempt any of this unless they were 100% in the right. Which they are.

Simply put, you were misinformed.

liamo333

needle_too wrote:

Fiachs erarlier assertion was incorrect. The link is on page 35 here - http://www.justice.ie/80256E010039E882/vWeb/flJUSQ6UWJ7P-en/$File/CriminalJusticeAct06.pdf

O1s1n would it be possible to sticky this link because it is very very hard to find where it says they are legal.

o1s1n

liamo333 wrote:

O1s1n would it be possible to sticky this link because it is very very hard to find where it says they are legal.

Good idea. I'll put it in one of the legality stickies.

Hivemind187

Spitfire666 wrote:

The IAA as it stands is getting nowhere fast. I hate to diss anyone who is making an effort but its being set up by people who in reality know very little about the sport and what it would take to set it up.
People who could be influential in it are being told nothing about it and of all the meetings held, what info has been shared?

Its funny how the people who arent doing ANYTHING themselves are the ones to start chucking rocks around.

Currently the IAA committee has many different fingers in many different pies and we are keeping quiet simply because it doesnt make sense to shout it from the roof tops before it is ready to go.

1) Presently we are finalising the application forms
2) The constitution is being re-considered to include the commercial interests
3) A code of conduct is being looked at and drafted
4) The press release is entering its final draft stages
5) We have been in contact with the FIS, Airsoft International & the UKARA
6) We are still actively pursuing insurance for IAA members

... and thats just the stuff I can be bothered going into right now.

So please, can you stop attacking us? We are doing our best but these things TAKE A LOT OF TIME.

Dave!

Hivemind will you stop being so bloody sensitive. Me and Alan are both supposedly on the committee, it shouldn't be like pulling teeth to try and get an update on what the hell yous are doing. You don't have to shout it from the rooftops, how about a little PM? Or an email?

"Just to let you fellow committee members know, we are doing x, y, and z."

I don't know how much Paul knows about this, but so far at least 2 out of the 6 members are in the dark for the past few months. Not good.

Hivemind187

DaveMcG wrote:

Hivemind will you stop being so bloody sensitive. Me and Alan are both supposedly on the committee, it shouldn't be like pulling teeth to try and get an update on what the hell yous are doing. You don't have to shout it from the rooftops, how about a little PM? Or an email?

"Just to let you fellow committee members know, we are doing x, y, and z."

I don't know how much Paul knows about this, but so far at least 2 out of the 6 members are in the dark for the past few months. Not good.

Dave, who did you PM about this? Who did you contact and ask for an update?

The door swings both ways.

Edit: Also ... the IAA is only about 3 months old, give us some TIME to get things done. You have to remember that we have to wait for people to reply to us.

o1s1n

DaveMcG wrote:

Hivemind will you stop being so bloody sensitive. Me and Alan are both supposedly on the committee, it shouldn't be like pulling teeth to try and get an update on what the hell yous are doing. You don't have to shout it from the rooftops, how about a little PM? Or an email?

"Just to let you fellow committee members know, we are doing x, y, and z."

I don't know how much Paul knows about this, but so far at least 2 out of the 6 members are in the dark for the past few months. Not good.

Dave, he's not being overly sensitive. Alan's comment was a kick in the bollocks to anyone who's been involved in this and he has every right to be pissed off.

"Organized by people who know very little about the sport"

Two of the guys active on the committee have been playing airsoft for quite some time. I'm sure they wouldn't appreciate comments like that in the slightest.

Anyway, this is veering away from the point of this thread. If someone wants to start an IAA debate thread etc, feel free.

Dave!

Hivemind,
Remember I posted here? And you replied to it with "we're working on it"?

I didn't think it was necessary to pester you every day with an email, we are after all both on the committee. Regular updates aren't that much to ask for, but I haven't even asked for that! I've only asked for one update!!!

Remember when I was doing the website? Without coercion and of my own accord I started a thread asking for advice, giving updates, and showing people how it's coming along.

It's really not much to ask.

Voodoomelon

Not to take sides, but i've been on this forum pretty much every single day at least once a day for the last three months and have heard very little in regards to what the IAA are actually doing.

All i've seen are posts akin to "this will be sorted when the IAA is fully established" or "the IAA really needs a voice".

I'm not giving out, I understand things take a long time, but in terms of regular members posting on the forum, not a lot seems to be happening...

ED E

Have to Agree with Vood. (I chek-in regualrly)

CrazyRabbit

I've no problem with how long it takes to get things done. We all know (I hope) that you guys are volunteering your time, have day jobs, and don't get paid for the work.

Just remember to let the little people know that something is actually progressing.

MaxForce

Folks, this thread originally started as a "Lets dissect the CJB" thread. Differing slants and understanding of terminology used in the CJB were aired in detail. I cant help but wonder would this be why some of the lads are having problems getting stuff through customs. Just a thought

MaxForce

needle_too wrote:

I
More 'nudge, nudge, wink, wink' half-arsed laws for ya...
So all you kids buying guns from abroad will continue to do so and more business and tax revenue will be exported.

I know the average age of the group would be a bit lot lower then my age, but I am 38 and would hardly be classed as a kid. I have an 8yo daughter. tcob if he wants to chuck in his age might be a small bit older then me but he is also definitely not a kid. I think using a term as used above is contrary to what we are trying to achieve here and that to show Airsoft Enthusiast's as responsible people.

Spitfire666

my comments were based on what i have seen on here in relation to the IAA, it was my opinion and that means it may or may not be correct.

What i said about knowing very little was ment in comparison to how long the sport has been going and other people have been involved.

I just wanted to clear that up and wasnt arsed to PM everyone individualy, it can be continued by pm or on another thread if needed.

tonyj_mc

just one quick point, i have ordered a couple of guns from Hong Kong for me and a mate, both of these packages went through customs and had tax paid on them if they where of dubious legality do you honestly think customs would have sent them on theie merry way to be delivered, don't think so.

i also don't like being called a kid, just cuz i wanna to do airsoft.

needle_too

MaxForce wrote:

I know the average age of the group would be a bit lot lower then my age, but I am 38 and would hardly be classed as a kid. I have an 8yo daughter. tcob if he wants to chuck in his age might be a small bit older then me but he is also definitely not a kid. I think using a term as used above is contrary to what we are trying to achieve here and that to show Airsoft Enthusiast's as responsible people.

I think people are getting hung up on the wording and ignoring the point of the thread. The law as it stands is very difficult to interpret.
I believe it was designed this way.
How many murders have there been in Ireland in the last while? Shoot outs and gangland stuff?

What will happen - I'll tell you what - as soon as the screw is turned cops will seize Airsoft guns and report them as firearms. This will make the figures fpr firearms seizures rocket and make it look like they are doing something other than taking bribes from publicans (and republicans too probably ).

And still, at the end of the day, the criminals have no problem getting real guns.

Evolute

Hivemind187 wrote:

Dave, who did you PM about this? Who did you contact and ask for an update?

The door swings both ways.

Edit: Also ... the IAA is only about 3 months old, give us some TIME to get things done. You have to remember that we have to wait for people to reply to us.

All im gonna say is people having jobs and doing this in their spare time you gotta be a bit more leniant(bad spelling i know) Dave. Im suprised and quite happy that there are people who are willing to work on so many issues at once so in the end it will be set up enough to actually have legitimate meetings and so what if u havent gotten any updates did ya think that there might not be anything to update about??

Evolute

tonyj_mc wrote:

just one quick point, i have ordered a couple of guns from Hong Kong for me and a mate, both of these packages went through customs and had tax paid on them if they where of dubious legality do you honestly think customs would have sent them on theie merry way to be delivered, don't think so.

i also don't like being called a kid, just cuz i wanna to do airsoft.

This is true and also the Kid part i dont beleive is being directed at anyone because there are a small amount of kids playing i think he just said it instead of saying all you guys or everyone out there.

Spitfire666

needle_too wrote:

I think people are getting hung up on the wording and ignoring the point of the thread. The law as it stands is very difficult to interpret.
I believe it was designed this way.
How many murders have there been in Ireland in the last while? Shoot outs and gangland stuff?

What will happen - I'll tell you what - as soon as the screw is turned cops will seize Airsoft guns and report them as firearms. This will make the figures fpr firearms seizures rocket and make it look like they are doing something other than taking bribes from publicans (and republicans too probably ).

And still, at the end of the day, the criminals have no problem getting real guns.

Are you a fool? why are you scaring people with ill informed rubbish?

They cannot be "seized and reported as firearms" as they ARE NO LONGER FIREARMS.

If it was a case of increasing firearms seizure stats they wouldnt have been legalised.
Believe it or not it was members of the gardai involved in balistics that pushed for them to be legalised.

CrazyRabbit

Spitfire666 wrote:

Are you a fool? why are you scaring people with ill informed rubbish?

They cannot be "seized and reported as firearms" as they ARE NO LONGER FIREARMS.

If it was a case of increasing firearms seizure stats they wouldnt have been legalised.
Believe it or not it was members of the gardai involved in balistics that pushed for them to be legalised.

I believe ya. They way the law is written might give the courts some scope to prosecute a criminal for firearms offences if they committed a crime with an airsoft gun. Something I would welcome & agree with. But I seriously doubt any court is going to convict and sentence joe blogs simply for having an airsoft gun. The courts and the Gardai mess up sometimes, but generally they show a lot of common sense.

Dave!

Evolute wrote:

All im gonna say is people having jobs and doing this in their spare time you gotta be a bit more leniant(bad spelling i know) Dave. Im suprised and quite happy that there are people who are willing to work on so many issues at once so in the end it will be set up enough to actually have legitimate meetings and so what if u havent gotten any updates did ya think that there might not be anything to update about??

Is that directed at me?

I have a full time job too, and I've been doing it in my spare time.

Last I heard a few months ago, "we're working on it". Since I continued to press for information in this thread, I found out some specifics. There has been progress, I don't doubt that Hivemind and Dave are working away.

But I'd like to hear about these things without having to get anybody in a headlock. There are 6 committee members and what, 30, 40 members? All it takes is one thread and everybody knows where we are.... It's not that much to ask, there is no need for anybody to get defensive about simple courtesy.

Does anybody think it's an unreasonable request to ask for an update every so often? Anybody? Then what's the issue?

o1s1n

needle_too wrote:

I think people are getting hung up on the wording and ignoring the point of the thread. The law as it stands is very difficult to interpret.

No it is not. It says anything with over 1 joule of muzzle energy is classified as a firearm. Anything under is not. If anyone is getting hung up on wording it's you. Your whole argument is based on it.

needle_too wrote:

How many murders have there been in Ireland in the last while? Shoot outs and gangland stuff?

What will happen - I'll tell you what - as soon as the screw is turned cops will seize Airsoft guns and report them as firearms. This will make the figures fpr firearms seizures rocket and make it look like they are doing something other than taking bribes from publicans (and republicans too probably ).

And still, at the end of the day, the criminals have no problem getting real guns.

:rolleyes: You're either a conspiracy theory nut or a troll. The first have their own forum...the others, well, aren't looked upon too kindly around here.

needle_too

crazyrabbit wrote:

I believe ya. They way the law is written might give the courts some scope to prosecute a criminal for firearms offences if they committed a crime with an airsoft gun. Something I would welcome & agree with. But I seriously doubt any court is going to convict and sentence joe blogs simply for having an airsoft gun. The courts and the Gardai mess up sometimes, but generally they show a lot of common sense.

Yes, thats my point exactly CR.
Of course plinkers wont be charged with arms offences but the law as it stands unfortunately seems to leave that possibility open.
With recent Garda behaviour - Donegal for example - it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that pissing off your neighbourhood Guard could result in a firearms prosecution if he was that way inclined.
For the hard of thinking - im not saying that will happen but the fact is it remains a possibility.

For a businessman wanting to open a shop and hold 100-200 AEGs in stock the law is just too vague to take that risk. Why pay out €50,000 for stock that might be seized?

Spitfire666 wrote:

Are you a fool? why are you scaring people with ill informed rubbish?

They cannot be "seized and reported as firearms" as they ARE NO LONGER FIREARMS.

If it was a case of increasing firearms seizure stats they wouldnt have been legalised.
Believe it or not it was members of the gardai involved in balistics that pushed for them to be legalised.

See you come on here Spitfire ranting about this stuff and you provide no evidence, no links, nothing but your own opinion.

It is wrong to say that Airsoft guns are no longer firearms as the law states otherwise - if it has a barrel capable of firing above one joule then it can, under the current law, be classified as a firearm.

You dont have to be that naive - the guards are under pressure, not succeed but to produce numbers that show that they are succeeding. The difference is subtle but I suggest that subtlety is not your strong suit.

You close off with waffle about Gardai pushed for Airsoft to be legalised.
Who? What Gardai? Do you have names? Dates? Documents? Links? Dail Records?
Do you have anything to back up this lunatic assertion?

I bet you dont.

Wanting something or thinking something is worthy of defence are admirable traits - and in this instance I share your frustration.
I however am trying to work my way through the problem.
Shouting and screaming about how 'unfair the law is' or 'how the world just doesnt understand' solves nothing.

whupass

*cough*spitfire's a guard*cough*:rolleyes:

kdouglas

needle_too: as was pointed out by o1s1n, your either a conspiracy theorist, or a troll, im starting to think it's the latter

look, nearly everyone on here has imported airsofts since the law was changed, and i believe at least one member has actually visited a garda station with an AEG, showed it to them and the relevant section of the cjb, and they saw no problems with it being legal.

if i had the money to open a store, i would gladly do it and have no worries whatsoever about my stock being seized

you say you are trying to work your way through the problem, but your the one creating the problem, nobody else has one

if anyone was ever charged based on what you are saying is possible, any jury/judge with the slightest bit of common sense would interpret the law the way the rest of us have (aka the right way) and the case would be thrown out, and that would be the end of any issues over the use of the word can, until then, i'll gladly continue buying airsofts, safe in the knowledge that they are perfectly legal

o1s1n

needle_too wrote:

Yes, thats my point exactly CR.
Of course plinkers wont be charged with arms offences but the law as it stands unfortunately seems to leave that possibility open.

Explain please? It does not. You are spouting utter bull.

needle_too wrote:

With recent Garda behaviour - Donegal for example - it is not beyond the bounds of possibility that pissing off your neighbourhood Guard could result in a firearms prosecution if he was that way inclined.
For the hard of thinking - im not saying that will happen but the fact is it remains a possibility.

If you piss off your local Gardaí they're going to prosecute you with a firearms offense for owning a perfectly legal airsoft device? Again, MORE bull.

needle_too wrote:

For a businessman wanting to open a shop and hold 100-200 AEGs in stock the law is just too vague to take that risk. Why pay out €50,000 for stock that might be seized?

Your stock isnt going to be seized. If its under 1 joule, it would be perfectly legal to possess and sell. (To be honest though, with your current attitude, you're not the kind of person I'd want to see opening Irelands first store)

needle_too wrote:

See you come on here Spitfire ranting about this stuff and you provide no evidence, no links, nothing but your own opinion.

Spitfire666 is a Gard. He knows a hell of a lot more about it than you do.

needle_too wrote:

It is wrong to say that Airsoft guns are no longer firearms as the law states otherwise - if it has a barrel capable of firing above one joule then it can, under the current law, be classified as a firearm.

Again, more bull. Let this be a warning. If you persist with such comments I'll ban you. You're spreading misinformation about a perfectly legal sport that could lead to confusion for newcomers and the uninformed.

In an attempt to get it into your head, I'll try and explain it again.

An airsoft device with a muzzle velocity of under 1 joule IS NOT CAPABLE OF FIRING ABOVE ONE JOULE. It would have to be upgraded. In that were done THEN it would be classified as a firearm.

Saying a sub 1 joule is illegal as its "capable" of firing over 1 joule if upgraded is like saying steel piping is illegal as its "capable" of shooting something over 1 joule if upgraded. It makes no sense at all. Any sane person can see that.

needle_too wrote:

You dont have to be that naive - the guards are under pressure, not succeed but to produce numbers that show that they are succeeding. The difference is subtle but I suggest that subtlety is not your strong suit.

You close off with waffle about Gardai pushed for Airsoft to be legalised.
Who? What Gardai? Do you have names? Dates? Documents? Links? Dail Records?
Do you have anything to back up this lunatic assertion?

I bet you dont.

More conspiracy theory bull. Take it to the proper forum.

This forum is here to actively promote airsoft in Ireland. It is a perfectly legal sport. No ifs, buts etc. IT IS LEGAL. Airsoft International has started being stocked in Easons. Why? BECAUSE IT IS LEGAL.

CrazyRabbit

whupass wrote:

*cough*spitfire's a guard*cough*:rolleyes:

Erm...Perhaps he didn't want everyone to know that. Ya don't see me running around telling everyone that I'm a secret agent superspy.....oh sh*t, the cat is out of the bag now.

o1s1n

CrazyRabbit wrote:

Erm...Perhaps he didn't want everyone to know that. Ya don't see me running around telling everyone that I'm a secret agent superspy.....oh sh*t, the cat is out of the bag now.

He's never had a problem saying it before. Actually, on several occasions he's used it as a trump card

o1s1n

Just after rereading the OP. To be honest, I should have locked this thread the moment it was created. Apologies.