Rent review, Landlord has been watching gangster films!

homerjk

Hey guys,

I've read the stickies and that, and just like daft they weren't that much help to me as the rents seem to be quite diverse.

To get to the point, myself and my flatmate moved into an apartment in Phibsboro last year. It is very nice and is new. Our rent for the first year was 1300 euro. This was a bit over the standard rent at the time but we were in such a bad way to get an apartment we took it. We have been model tenants, we've paid the rent in full every time and not once during the entire year were we even in contact with the owner or the estate agent who was looking after it for him.

So we paid our last months rent last week and then the EA rang this morning to see what the story was. He asked us were we interested in keeping on the apartment and I said we were. He then said the landlord was looking for an increase in the rent. I said well how much does he want?... His answer was "Make him an offer"!! I said "what? what the hell does that mean" he basically said he doesn't know what he wants he just wants yous to make an offer first!

Surely this is a lose-lose situation? I've been looking at daft and prices are anywhere from 1200 to 1700! My work mate here lives in a great spot on leeson street and his rent only went up 3%, i said this to the EA and he laughed! i dont know what to do, I really like this place and we has such hassle getting a nice place last year.:mad:

Paulw

1) start looking for a new place
2) Make him an offer - the same as you're paying now + maybe 5%

Don't let them force you, and stand your ground.

But, it always pays to look around for a new place, just in case. You can then say that you've found a new place, and that if he wants an increase then he will have to find new tenants.

In many cases, he would prefer a good reliable tenant over an increase and a potential nightmare tenant.

robd

Here's my opinion and observations on the rental market in North Dublin. I'm a renter too and keen observer of various trends.

Rents started pushing up towards the end of last year and went crazy at the start of this year. This seems to have coincided with a drop in rental supply or at least rental advertising on Daft.ie around Christmas. I don't know whether this drop was due to an increase in rental demand due to immigration etc. or due to landlords looking to sell their places, but their was a notable drop in supply. Prices went a little crazy in the New Year with 2 beds around Clontarf jumping from the 1200-1300 range right up to the 1500-1600 range. Basically the drop in supply seemed to allow the landlords to push the rent up to cover the increase of interest rates by the ECB.

Lately, supply seems to have increased with prices moderating slightly. I would expect to pay around 1400 to 1500 in Clontarf (I'd be negotiating down to 1400 if I could). I think you could prob get 1300 to 1400 with a bit of patience, time and negotiation. I'd expect to pay €100 less for Phibsboro (so defo not more than €1400). I used to live just up the road at Hart's corner.

Another point, if you're there more than 6 months you lease rolls into a 4 year agreement (although you're technically supposed to inform the landlord at the 6 month period of the intention to stay on past the fixed term agreement). Rents can only be reviewed on an annual basis and you must be given a minimum of 28 days notice of an increase, thus if you rent is due in say 21 days the increase would only come into affect at the rent payment after the next one. This doesn't help you on the current review but may allow you a month before the increase is due.

Agents are very good at saying your lease agreement is up when in fact you're fully covered under the residential tenancy act (a point they seem to like to forget). You don't have to sign a new agreement (and I wouldn't).

Be firm and slightly aggressive (maybe pissy is a better word) if necessary. Take the advice of the previous poster and look around so you have a second option if needed. If you're Irish and/or in a professional job take full advantage of those facts.

Oh and I'd only offer him €50 more. Let him make the call, he's just pushing to see how far you'll go. Play dumb too for as long as you can. Knowledge is power.

pwd

Landlords don't like having to find new tenants unless there is something wrong with the existing ones, which I assume is not the case. It takes time, there's a risk of getting a bad egg, and they usually lose a bit of income while the place is unoccupied. So keep that in mind. I'd offer him the same as what you're already paying to start with.

patrickolee

I'd agree with the previous posters... sounds like the EA is a horse trader and you interact with him in that way. Have a look around for another place and then decide yourself your maximum price (and stick with this). Then offer that you continue paying the same amount as you currently are (or a very small increase if you feel you must). Then let him come back to you. Is there anyway you can contact the landlord directly? This could be the EA taking it upon himself to increase the revenue. A landlord would generally be much happier with good tenants and no gap in tenancy than a small monthly increase. If he has to leave the place unoccupied for a month, when looking for a new tenant it will cost him 1300Euro. If he secures an increase of say 100Euro a month, it will take him more than a year to earn that back. It wouldn't be worth the gamble for a landlord. But if you look at it from the EAs point of view, they get a percentage of the rent, so an increase will benefit them and they also usually get paid for sourcing new tenants, so having you leave is to their advantage.

conor_mc

Agree with pwd. An extra €50 a month would be worth €600 a year to your landlord. If he turfed you out and it took two weeks to get a new tenant, it would cost him that much in lost rent, nevermind the possibility of getting a bad tenant.

I wouldn't go above €1350, and I'd be inclined to refuse an increase first and see how far he's willing to push you.

EDIT - post crossed with patrickolee.

antoinolachtnai

Don't make an offer. You have nothing to gain from doing so. You are entitled to remain in the apartment for another three years.

Let him make you an offer. After all, he's an estate agent, he's supposed to be the expert in property values.

If he really insists on you making an offer, make a very small offer, or just tell him you think the current rent is a fair rent, especially if there's another comparable property available in the area for less money. However, it is probably better if you do not make him an offer.

You should go and read the procedure for rent reviews. http://www.prtb.ie/DownloadDocs/Residential%20Tenancies%20Act%202004%20-%20A%20Quick%20Guide.pdf

See page 3.

Also, try to have some actual evidence of actual recent rents in your area (as opposed to what people asked on daft.ie) in case you need it later.

When you talk to the agent, don't bother talking about the law or your rights. Don't get 'pissy' either. There's no point. Be as nice as possible. If he says something inflammatory like '... well your lease is up and ...' don't rise to the bait. Just let him talk, note it all down and be polite.

a.

ronbyrne2005

1300 seems to be a fair rent for a 2 bed in Phibsborogh. Heres a 2bed duplex at 1300 a month. If anything he should be glad he has good reliable tenants and you should be paying 1250 a month! Sounds like an amateur landlord who has seen his interest rate rise over last year, but remember that a landlord can only raise his price by as much as the market will bear, interest rates cold skyrocket and unless there was demand at a higher price he could not raise his rents.

whizzbang

You might be interested to note that rental availability has started to shoot up on daft.

"For Rent" Graphs on daftwatch

http://daftwatch.atspace.com/

This increase in supply might take a short while to turn into reduced rents but it looks like it is turning into a renters market all of a sudden.

J

patrickolee

Interestingly, there was a radio program on RTE1 at the weekend and one of the commentators predicted this would happen. He said that as more and more people held off on buying properties, more pressure would be put on the rental market and rents would sky rocket.

So you're damned if you buy a property as prices might fall and damned if you don't because the rents will increase!

ronbyrne2005

patrickolee wrote:

Interestingly, there was a radio program on RTE1 at the weekend and one of the commentators predicted this would happen. He said that as more and more people held off on buying properties, more pressure would be put on the rental market and rents would sky rocket.

So you're damned if you buy a property as prices might fall and damned if you don't because the rents will increase!

The rental spike is only a short term spike. A huge mortgage on a depreciating house is a lot longer term commitment.

homerjk

Everyone,

Thank you all for the great advice. I think I will tell him that I think the current rent we are paying is fair. If he comes back ill go to 1350 at max and then tell him to whistle. I will look around to see whats out there but I really hope I dont have too, I'm settled nicely in this place!

I will let you know how I get on.

Thanks.

RuggieBear

I'm paying 1350 for a two bed room semi in Dublin 4.

tell the estate agent to go **** themselves.

chump

RuggieBear wrote:

I'm paying 1350 for a two bed room semi in Dublin 4.

tell the estate agent to go **** themselves.

damn straight, cowboys...

Duckjob

"I want to raise the rent"

"How much?"

"Make me an offer?"

Irish CuteWhoerism at its worse....

Don't entertain this cowboy rubbish. Tell him if he wants more its up to him to say what he wants.

antoinolachtnai

I wouldn't tell him to whistle. Just be pleasant. You can appeal it to the PRTB. You can also use the 'stick' of prtb to beat him down a bit.

Most important thing is

- to know what you want

- find out what he wants

see if you can get it to match up.

Pa ElGrande

The agent is not sure of his ground and chancing his arm, otherwise he'd have put an exact price on it. Leave your offer the same as this year, if he wants more, ask his opinion on other properties available in the same price range as you paid last year and ask his assesment of other premises in the area, showing him pictures of the listings from Daft in the area (with favorable prices). Hint at having good luck to find reliable, stable tenants such as yourself who are low maintenence and pay the rent on time, they may not be so lucky in the future. Work out how much its going to cost you to move ( time, fuel etc) and don't offer anymore than that.
If the agent is any good he will know the state of the market in the locality and if there are still people queuing like the end of 2006/beginning of 2007 then he may reckon he can push higher. As the other said do your homework on the area, decide on a budget, stick to it and be prepared to move.

Borzoi

homerjk wrote:

So we paid our last months rent last week and then the EA rang this morning to see what the story was. He asked us were we interested in keeping on the apartment and I said we were. He then said the landlord was looking for an increase in the rent. I said well how much does he want?... His answer was "Make him an offer"!! I said "what? what the hell does that mean" he basically said he doesn't know what he wants he just wants yous to make an offer first!

Go direct to the landlord, the EA gets 5-10% of the rent as their commission. Cut him out and the LL is up that much money, plus he has no down time on the apartment, and tenants that he knows. Win win for everybody except the EA, and well, who cares about them

homerjk

All,

First update:
Rang EA and told him I had looked around and that I think our rent is strong enough already as it is. He didnt seem too surprised by that or anything so I hope that is a good sign.
Although, as someone said above, he was being a bit of a cowboy. He let it slip that he hasnt actually talked to the landlord at all. The landlord just emailed him to say "I see the lease is up soon, what is the story with the tenants" so I'd say you were right about the landlord not asking for a increase. He said he will get back to us next week.:rolleyes:

dudara

I remember reading an article on this recently. Rents were expected to increase in the short term as rental supply would drop. This was supposed to happen due to buy-to-let owners being squeezed by interest rate hikes and putting their property on the market in order to get out.

However, because the properties are not earning income, and are not selling, the owners will be essentially forced to put them back onto the rental market in order to maintain some cashflow.

antoinolachtnai

I don't think you can make any broad general remarks about the rental markets. In some places the rents are pretty static, some places they're going up pretty quickly. It all depends, and anyone in this position should try to negotiate the best deal for their circumstances.

homerjk

Just to finish this thread off. The landlord wanted 1350 and we took it. Thanks for advice guys.

RuggieBear

homerjk wrote:

Just to finish this thread off. The landlord wanted 1350 and we took it. Thanks for advice guys.

that's probably fair enough. good luck!:)