Best site for new account with rakeback?

BrokenArrows

I have never really maintained a bankroll. Ive always been a lodge, withdraw and spend player. But ive been thinking lately to actually try and build and maintain a roll.

I also had pokertracker running for a while in the last week and im totally shocked at the ammount of rake that i pay.

I have accounts on alot of the major sites because ive over the last number of years cleared their signup bonuses.

Now that ive looked into getting rakeback i see that i cannot get them on existing accounts.

What sites allow you to create a new account and abandon the old one.

Im probably gona start out with a small roll and start out playing $5 sngs and work up the roll to play $30 sngs

Ste05

BrokenArrows wrote:

I have accounts on alot of the major sites because ive over the last number of years cleared their signup bonuses.

Now that ive looked into getting rakeback i see that i cannot get them on existing accounts.

What sites allow you to create a new account and abandon the old one.

Not many, (read none) allow you to abandon an account to get RB. Also some don't pay RB on Tournament fees. If the mods allow it we can have a discussion in this thread about it, if not send me a PM with all the sites you already have an account on and I'm sure I can help you get something sorted.

sikes

there are people who will set up new accounts for you with FTP etc who will allow you to have rakeback on those accounts. A very common occurence these days.

BrokenArrows

pm sent ste05

5starpool

Generic rakeback discussions are fine, but pimping rakeback isn't, as is my understanding anyhow.

Ste05

5starpool wrote:

Generic rakeback discussions are fine, but pimping rakeback isn't, as is my understanding anyhow.

Well I'd have to mention rates etc. so it's probably better to keep it to PM's, anyway PM sent.

If anyone has any generic RB questions I'm happy to answer them here.

jimbling

Hey Ste, what do you know about the Rakeback on Full Tilt. It's about the only major site that I never joined... went to do so last week only discover that the rakeback is no longer available for new accounts :mad:

5starpool

You know the rules as well as I Ste, so I'm sure you'll be grand.

Ste05

5starpool wrote:

You know the rules as well as I Ste, so I'm sure you'll be grand.

Indeed

jimbling wrote:

Hey Ste, what do you know about the Rakeback on Full Tilt. It's about the only major site that I never joined... went to do so last week only discover that the rakeback is no longer available for new accounts

I don't know where you tried, but you can still get RB on new accounts on FT, but obviously not from FT themselves, you need to use an affiliate.

tonc76

Ste05 wrote:

I don't know where you tried, but you can still get RB on new accounts on FT, but obviously not from FT themselves, you need to use an affiliate.

Affiliates? Can you elaborate please? Thanks

Ste05

I'll just copy and paste a post I made in my blog about it and remove the bits that are against the forum rules: Just give me a second to do it....

Ste05

I think this is all OK.... I've snipped the bits where I was pimping my guys...

HOW DOES RAKEBACK WORK:

There are various ways poker sites try and attract new players and to increase customer loyalty to their site. RakeBack (RB) is basically just one form of this.

How it usually works, is that the sites facilitate it by setting up affiliate scheme's, and by so doing they get other people to do a lot of the work of attracting new players for them. These people are known as Affiliates. This has lead to quite a competitive industry where many affiliates are competing to increase their "stable" of players. The bigger the affiliate the better rates they can secure from a Poker site to promote them and often they can have quite a bit of sway over a site. Some of the larger affiliates have even started to venture into creating their own "Skins" to bypass one of the middle men and increase their profit margin.

I’ll just describe how the majority of affiliate schemes work as an introduction to the world of RB. They pay their affiliates in basically 2 ways.

1. They pay their affiliate on a "per sign-up basis", this is similar to the "refer-a-friend" bonuses, that anyone can avail of on most sites, basically they get a set fee for every new player the affiliates send them, I think we can all easily think of a few of these guys, and they are usually after small time players, who are probably losing players, or just have a passing interest in the game, and might play for a couple of weeks and then get bored with it, or lose all their money and decide Poker's not for them. They go for bulk as opposed to quality of players, they could make more by offering RB to a player if they were going to play on a site for an extended period. They are after players who might want, say a copy of PokerTracker, or a set of chips, or an Amazon voucher, or just upfront $$ for signing up at a Poker site, the affiliate is paid a fee per player and in order to entice new players they pass a % of this on to their new player by various bonus offers.
2. They are paid a % of the rake that the new player generates. Now in general these affiliates are after a different type of player than the "per sign up" affiliates want, as these affiliates need long term players who will play for an extended period of time on a site, professional players, high volume winning or at least breakeven players who will continue to play and earn both the site and in turn themselves Rake. Obviously to attract new players, the affiliates then offer a % of this back to the new player. Hence this is where RB comes from.

Many sites officially allow RB and generally, to stop a price war, where everyone suffers (especially the poker sites bottom line) they set a maximum RB rate that can be offered publically, e.g. Full Tilt have set the max. at 27%. UltimateBet recently increased theirs to 35%.

One thing to be aware of is, generally each affiliates' "stable" needs to generate a combined monthly amount of rake in order to qualify for the top rates. And usually Poker Sites pay affiliates on an increasing sliding rate as the combined MGR (Monthly Generated Rake) of that affiliate increases. For example, there is usually one rate, say, 20% for a MGR of, say, <$5,000 and then, say, 25% for a MGR of, say, $5,001 - $15,000 and then, say 30% for a MGR of over $15,000. (These figures are just used for illustrative purposes) Now just suppose the highest advertised rate allowed is 25% for the site, if an affiliate offers this rate of but only has a combined MGR of $4,000, then they simply can't afford to pay you your 25%, because they were only paid 20%, and could easily just disappear into the night with your RB. This is why choosing the right affiliate is crucial when looking into getting a RakeBack deal, there have been many "Rogue affiliates" in the past that promise the earth and just never pay. So YOU'VE BEEN WARNED.

Some sites officially don’t allow RB, but on some of them, because of their affiliate scheme's it's possible and therefore, generally available, just not publicly advertised, so it generally takes a little bit of leg work to find it. Whereas some others, simply don't have affiliate schemes or payment methods that facilitate RB, e.g. when people say that RB isn't allowed on Stars, it's true, because not only is it not allowed, it's actually impossible, as they don't offer affiliates a MGR option for payment, so affiliates have nothing to pay you with. Therefore if anyone ever offers you RB on Stars they are talking through their arse and should not be trusted. This may change in the future, but certainly AFAIK at the minute this is the case.

WHAT CAN I DO IF I ALREADY HAVE AN ACCOUNT THAT DOESN'T HAVE RB:

Many people upon finding out that RakeBack exists wonder if it is possible to have an existing account changed into a RakeBack account. The answer to this is usually No, and I'll now explain why this is so:

1. If you have an existing account and signed up under any affiliate, even if by accident, say you clicked through a link on some website, then your tracked to that affiliate and can't be moved, as they have been credited with attracting you to the site. The affiliates are happy with this rule too, because that way there isn't poaching going on, so once your account is linked to ANYONE, then you can't move it.
2. If you signed up to an account by typing in the URL manually or click through a non affiliated link, and deleting all your cookies and history, then your probably not linked to anyone, but here's where the next roadblock comes into play. The Poker site already has you as a customer and so doesn't view your account as a new one and hence doesn't need to attract your custom, therefore they don't allow you to move accounts. Some sites occasionally allow accounts to be moved if you’re not linked to anyone, but it’s generally never allowed. It's also against most sites T&C's to have more than one account, so basically your Fcuked.

There are work-arounds to these, but they generally are alot of hassle and not all that great and I'd only really recommend them as a complete last resort.

This is all why it's SOOOO important that people know that their sign-up at ANY poker site is valuable and they should use it wisely. You can get free money just for opening an account and playing on a site. And you should never sign up to a site without getting some sort of incentive, and every site you sign up to (including PokerStars) has some way to make you money. And I'm happy to point anyone in the right direction, even if there's nothing in it for me, so feel free to contact me.

Some sites (like Full Tilt and Absolute Poker most recently) occasionally open the door for type 2 accounts to be moved under an affiliates "umbrella". so keep you eyes peeled to this blog if your looking for sites that allow this. As I'll be keeping this kind of thing updated.

HOW IS MY RAKEBACK CALCULATED:

Each player is paid a % of his MGR (Monthly Generated Rake), there are 3 main methods that MGR is calculated:

1. Dealt Method: With this method, if a hand is raked then every player dealt into that hand is given a Pro-Rata percentage of that rake. e.g. If a hand is raked $1 and 10 players are dealt cards then each player is attributed $0.10 of this $1 ($1/10).
2. Average Contributed Method: With this method, again you can only generate rake if you are dealt into the hand, but you don't get any MGR allocated to you if you don't contribute to the pot in some way, even a forced bet, such as a folded Small Blind will be considered a contribution. And how this is calculated, using the example above, where a Pot is raked $1, however in this example, say there are only 5 players who contributed to the pot (e.g. 3 limpers and the blinds) . Now your MGR is calculated as follows $1/5 = $0.20 for each player who contributed to the pot. And it doesn't matter even if only 2 players make it past the flop, or the Small Blind folds, everyone who contributed to the pot is considered the same.
3. Weighted Average Contributed Method: With this method it's the same as type 2 above, except the rake is attributed to each player in proportion to how much they contribute to the pot. This is where it gets quite complicated, but I'll try to explain it as well as possible. By taking the same example as above. However, for this example I'll assume that we are on the button and the pot ends up being $20 and it is raked $1 (illustrative purposes only, I haven't worked it out whether this is a realistic rake amount) and we contributed $2 to the pot but folded on the flop. In this example we contributed $2 to a $20 pot, or 10% of the pot, therefore we are attributed 10% of the $1 rake = $0.10 added to our MGR. The formula for this method is (amount we contribute to the pot/final amount in pot) x amount raked = MGR.

At the end of the month, the Poker site calculates how much MGR your account made and pays the affiliate their % of this. e.g. Say we generate $100 in rake, your affiliate is paid, say, the top rate of 30% = $30 and then they then pay you your 25% = $25. Hence how the affiliate makes money and how you are paid. Most affiliates allow you to track your RB by setting up an account on their website where you manage your account and see how much RB you have earned so far in the month, some affiliates pay you on a set day of the month, some of the bigger more reputable one's allow you to cash out any time and even daily if you want,

sikes

nice post, wheres your blog?

Ste05

it's my homepage on here. I got rid of it from my sig when the new sig rules were brought in. I kinda abandoned a challenge I was doing when I got addicted to WoW and then for some other reasons.

tonc76

sikes wrote:

nice post, wheres your blog?

.

jimbling

Ste05 wrote:

Indeed

I don't know where you tried, but you can still get RB on new accounts on FT, but obviously not from FT themselves, you need to use an affiliate.

hmmmm, very strange. I initially tried to get it via your site, but the link for Full Tilt seemed to be broken..... i.e. it did not bring you too a sign up page like your other links.
I then went on the net to find some other affiliates, but I kept coming up against a statement like:
"Due to corporate issues blablahblah will not promote Full Tilt Poker rakeback to new players for the time being"

Found that a few times and gave up. Have been meaning to PM you about it for the last week.... this thread reminded me.

All in all, it's brilliant news that that was some sort of strange coincidence and ill try signing up again tonight.

58o

Hey Ste i set up a Full Tilt a/c ages ago, but have yet to make a single deposit to it.Can i get Rakeback or have i screwed that up?

Ste05

That's a tricky one, in general if you haven't deposited yet, then you're not a "real money" customer yet, so you should be able to just set up a new account under whatever affiliate you want.

Brando_ie

As far as FT goes I was in the same boat as a few posters here a few weeks ago insofar as I had D/L'd the software an age ago but never deposited.

Prior to my first deposit I was seeking rakeback and ultimately ended going with Ste. I emailed Ft support three times trying to confirm if I should use my previous account and just associate with an affiliate prior to my first deposit but the support at Ft is a complete joke and they consistently fail to answer even the most basic of questions (including an ongoing battle regarding there Ironman program).

Anyhoo, decided to create a fresh account using a different email and associate my CC card to it and that worked just fine. Unfortunately I was pulled up by FT a few days ago when they spotted the fact that I had two accounts and they proceeded to scold me (and close my first 'play money' account) for breaking the T&C's by setting up a second account (mainly my fault as I had been using my first accounts email address to query the issue of the Ironman loyalty program) but I simply forwarded on my prior unsuccessful email marathon trying to get an answer on should I set up a new account, called them a bunch of idiots with shockingly bad customer support but that is just an aside.

I don't know anything of the suggestion that somehow affiliates are becoming standoffish regarding FT rakeback as certainly I had no problem getting it through at the beginning of this month.

So to paraphrase: You can set up rakeback account if you never deposited, use a different email but don't ever use your old accounts email to contact FT support, or even better, don't ever contact FT support because they are a bunch of clowns well versed in avoiding the question!! :rolleyes:

RoadSweeper

58o wrote:

Hey Ste i set up a Full Tilt a/c ages ago, but have yet to make a single deposit to it.Can i get Rakeback or have i screwed that up?

no, same happended me. so what i did was set up an new one, new email and deposited the money. about 3 weeks into use they emailed me regarding multipal accounts.
they said they would shut the one with no money.