Phrenology & the paranormal

ladybirdirl

Guys,

Still forming my thoughts on this so it may seem a bit scattered - please bear with me

Look at the map of phrenology(19th century psychology,mainly european I think, you'll find it here , I couldn't get it to paste in

http://www.phrenology.com/phrenology.html

In particular areas 15 and 17 (conscientiousness & spirtuality)on this map

This got me to thinking about paranormal/spirituality and I mean paranormal not in a strictly scientific/empricial sense here.

So based on this map and based on recent advances in understanding the brain I'm wondering can we say we 'know' more that can prove/disprove the paranormal events we believe occur?

Or indeed should we going back a few steps to the time when this would have been 'all the rage' in terms of understanding to see if this picture of our 'processing' centres explains why some of us feel heightened spiritual/paranormal awareness and some of us are dyed in the wool sceptics

I do take into account that phrenology has been all but discounted but I think it's interesting

Observations/comments anyone

Ladybird

6th

I'm familiar with Phrenology but am confused with how it could relate to spirituality or how it could prove or disprove paranormal phenomenon?

Phrenology claims to be able to determine personality traits based on the shape and surface of head, much in the same way palmistry would work with hands. Also phrenology has been used (or rather misused) in the past to justify racism and prejustice. To claim that someones personality and character are pre-defind by a relatively unchanging feature (once developed) is to say that we as people are incapable of change.

Not to mention that you can look at a dozen phrenological maps over the last 200 years and see completely different landscapes.

Taking it at the same value as palmistry all I could see that it could do is maybe be an early indicator of health problem. When it comes to medical science phrenology definately had some grounding based on the fact that it realised the brain was made up of a number of 'organs' as opposed to being homogenous unit.

As for phrenology explaining why some people are predisposed to experiencing the paranormal? I'd look at it as having as much weight as using the size of a mans shoes to determine his penis length.

nitefox

ladybirdirl wrote:

Guys,

Still forming my thoughts on this so it may seem a bit scattered - please bear with me

Look at the map of phrenology(19th century psychology,mainly european I think, you'll find it here , I couldn't get it to paste in

http://www.phrenology.com/phrenology.html

In particular areas 15 and 17 (conscientiousness & spirtuality)on this map

This got me to thinking about paranormal/spirituality and I mean paranormal not in a strictly scientific/empricial sense here.

So based on this map and based on recent advances in understanding the brain I'm wondering can we say we 'know' more that can prove/disprove the paranormal events we believe occur?

Or indeed should we going back a few steps to the time when this would have been 'all the rage' in terms of understanding to see if this picture of our 'processing' centres explains why some of us feel heightened spiritual/paranormal awareness and some of us are dyed in the wool sceptics

I do take into account that phrenology has been all but discounted but I think it's interesting

Observations/comments anyone

Ladybird

Hi Ladybird how are you and everybody?. That's a great topic to put up on here. In particular areas 15 and 17 conscientiousness & spirtuality on this map is for diffend conscientiousness & spirtuality side for the mind i looked at prog on c4 about 2 yrs ago it was a live exorcism so the guy in question belife that and the other guy that was doing was some Christian faith and he sais he was doing a delives so the guy that was possessioned they had his head wrie up to a computer so they got see what parts of his brian was acterd and of coures that side of his brian was acterd areas 15 and 17 conscientiousness & spirtuality.

stormkeeper

I'm severely lagged at the moment, so I haven't been online much... hopefully it'll be fixed soon so I can properly check things out.

Stoner

6th wrote:

Not to mention that you can look at a dozen phrenological maps over the last 200 years and see completely different landscapes.

Look at the one I found !!!

Anyway I guess these things are being firmed up continuously, looking at people who have damaged certain parts of their brains and seeing the changes etc.

I find it difficult to know how you could measure someones spirit though, but I guess these would happen in the brain if anywhere.

Riamfada

I assume you mean finding the certain areas of the brain that control paranormal abilities?

6th

Stoner wrote:

Anyway I guess these things are being firmed up continuously, looking at people who have damaged certain parts of their brains and seeing the changes etc.

But phrenology is n't so much about the brain as about the surface of the skull. One of its main uses since its conception at the begining of the 19th century was to identify people who would be predisposed to criminal behaviour. Even up until today studies are being carried out on casts of heads from people who have faced the death penalty for murder etc.

6th

Stoner its like saying that by having a feel of your noggin' that we can determine if you are gong to be a thief, murderer or drug dealer. By giving any credance to this we are saying basically that we have little choice in what way or lifes will go.

As I've said phrenology was used as a justification for racism and discrimination.

Stoner

ahh ok,

I see what you mean now. that's not the brain , it's the noggin,

Dr Strange

6th wrote:

But phrenology is n't so much about the brain as about the surface of the skull. One of its main uses since its conception at the begining of the 19th century was to identify people who would be predisposed to criminal behaviour. Even up until today studies are being carried out on casts of heads from people who have faced the death penalty for murder etc.

Absolutely correct. The mapping of these areas refer to the "lumps and bumps" on the head of the living. A pseudo-science absolutely discredited by anthropologists and anatomists alike. Another area of the same field would be craniology which looks at these areas on the skull. This method was mainly developed by Dr. J. Gall. Again, pseudo-science and not worth commenting on as any anatomist/osteologist/anthropologist will tell you.

What happened here is that ladybirdirl mistook the mapping of the cranial/cephalic surfaces, and their reference to certain character-traits, for the mapping of the neuroanatomical surface of the brain and certain control areas and function centres of the brain.

Best,
P.

6th

Yep the noggin, though the shape of the skull obviously is affected by the shape and size of the brain.

A phernology head is something most people will recognise:

6th

Preusse wrote:

Absolutely correct. The mapping of these areas refer to the "lumps and bumps" on the head of the living. A pseudo-science absolutely discredited by anthropologists and anatomists alike. Another area of the same field would be craniology which looks at these areas on the skull. This method was mainly developed by Dr. J. Gall. Again, pseudo-science and not worth commenting on as any anatomist/osteologist/anthropologist will tell you.

Phrenology, Craniology and Physiognomy are all things that I looked at closely when I was back in college. I spent months studying the head so I could better understand it when I attempt to sculpt or model it. I felt a fair few heads back in the day and even managed to model a few good pieces - I even keep a notebook of my work and my research .... digging it out after 8 or 9 years would be more difficult than tracking BigFoot!

Stoner

Preusse wrote:

What happened here is that ladybirdirl mistook the mapping of the cranial/cephalic surfaces, and their reference to certain character-traits, for the mapping of the neuroanatomical surface of the brain and certain control areas and function centres of the brain.
P.

I think it was me who made the error. Not bad going though nearly 1000 posts and I've only been wrong twice in that time.

6th

Stoner wrote:

I think it was me who made the error.

Well not everyone can be expectd to know what phrenology is and "brain" was mentioned in the opening post.

Riamfada

Phrenology also came in the era of Eugenics. In an attempt to control the spread of "degenerates" in late 19th century Britain there was a focus on the physical characteristics of people. Phrenology comes from that but dosnt make much sense.

ladybirdirl

Preusse wrote:

What happened here is that ladybirdirl mistook the mapping of the cranial/cephalic surfaces, and their reference to certain character-traits, for the mapping of the neuroanatomical surface of the brain and certain control areas and function centres of the brain.

Best,
P.

when not speaking directly to me or asking me via a post on a thread how would you know what you claim I 'mistook'.

Ladybird

6th

I wouldnt hold it against Preusse, I'm more than a little confused about the connection you are making between phrenology (reading the bumps of the head), the brain and the paranormal?

ladybirdirl

For clarity

I did NOT make a connection - I asked a question

I mentioned phrenology AND recent advances in learning about the brain

GuanYin

relax everyone, I think there is some confusion here. I'm not sure I get the link being made either, but I'm definitely interested as should everyone be, maybe ladybird could go into more detail?

EDIT- actually having looked at the map as you directed (which I didn't originally) - I might know what you're thinking.

It looks like spirituality is at the rear hem of the frontal lobe, which governs reason, emotion and conciousness - while conciousness is shown at the parietal lobe which has been shown to be the area for directing the senses in concert.

Skull development occurs, to some degree, in concert with brain development but I don't know to what degree.

Ermmmm that's where I'm stuck.

[edit again] so the areas that govern emotion/conciousness and control of senses link to the phrenological map of conciousness and spirituality.

I guess I see a link, but not sure that they'd ever intended that - I'd need to know the reasoning behind the phrenological map.

6th? Any ideas?

ladybirdirl

I don't really have a link between the two, I'm just stating that maybe this is a possible way of looking at it.

If you were to believe the phrenology map & look at someone's skull would you see any heightened 'bump' in the area of say spirituality process centre.

Or conversly do our recent advances in understanding of the brain/skull/mind give us a more sound foundation for hypothesising that if you have paranormal experiences you MAY have a certain type of anatomy/brain structure which would sit within the phrenological map of the skull (apologies if I'm not using the correct medical terms)

Yes I'm aware that phrenology was largely discounted, I just think perhaps it's an interesting area.

Just asking the questions, not forming any links myself, wondering aloud if you could extrapolate to that degree what would you find?

EDIT: e.g. could you say that all the synapses and things that run around in the brain are dictated by the shapes of the skull (ok that's a leap I know but an interesting one I think)

Capt'n Midnight

TBH lots of cultures have modified the shapes of their skulls what would that make them phrenologically ?
http://images.google.ie/images?q="skull+binding"

Dr Strange

ladybirdirl wrote:

when not speaking directly to me or asking me via a post on a thread how would you know what you claim I 'mistook'.

Ladybird

As someone working in the field of anatomy and anthropology I only assumed you mistook (made a mistake) about these. There is nothing on the outside of the human skull that gives you an indication about the intracranial development. If it was so, it would be much easier for surgeaons and forensic alike, believe me. Whatever development of a certain area within the brain can only be seen there, either by CT/MRI Scan or post-mortem examination. The inside of the human skull is only a negative cast of the external surface of the brain, which means the only possible brain structure you will be able to deduct from the inside of the skull are the convoluted areas (sulci and gyri) as well as some intracranial vessels (Meninges, etc.) and certain functions that lie on the brain surface, such as Broca's area.

So you can quite clearly see that when there are so many difficulties in discovering changes of certain areas of the brain even on the inside of the human skull, the outside does not tell us anything at all about the brain apart from possible pathologies.
And the term phrenological or phrenological mapping etc, does not exist in science as Phrenology is not a scientific subject. Craniology and Craniometry are a different matter. Nowadays these fields are used to identify gender and race in skeletal remains, however, there is no such thing as "personal character" expressed or better "impressed" on the surface of the skull.

Best,
P.

Best,
P.

stevenmu

Well, first of all phrenology is in itself considered a paranormal subject.

I do certainly believe that particular areas of our brains are heavily related to paranormal experiences, and I've posted about this kind of thing a few times. I don't know though if this could be seen to extend to the skull as could be measurable by phrenology. Psi, you're post seems to suggest that it is at least potentially plausible ?

One thing that comes straight to mind is the pineal gland, commonly known in paranormal/new age circles as the third eye. It's been mentioned to me that you can see in some people a slight bump in the foreheads of some people who supposedly have a very active, and therefore presumably larger than average, third eye.

Another thing that comes to mind (yes, I'm going to milk that pun for all it's worth) is some research I posted about before, altough I can't seem to find the link at the moment. Essentially, some researchers discovered that a certain part of the brain (somewhere within the temporal lobe iirc) tended to be larger and more active in people with religous or spiritual beliefs. (there was no evidence to suggest which caused which). I don't know exactly where that was though, or where it would correspond to on the map above. It makes sense though that if it's reasonably close to the skull that if it's larger than normal then that may be measurable in the skull too. Of course it wouldn't lead to some gigantic lump, but afaik phrenology required very accurate measurements of the different sections of the head which were then compared to each other, so subtle differences could show up in that case.

I'll try and look up that research anyway, see what locations it would correspond too.

Zillah

stevenmu wrote:

Well, first of all phrenology is in itself considered a paranormal subject.

I wonder why? It was a theory some people had, and its proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be nonesense. Its not like ghosts or something where we just don't know, we're sure, phrenology makes no sense. The shape of the skull does not tell us about the person's personality.

GuanYin

stevenmu wrote:

I don't know though if this could be seen to extend to the skull as could be measurable by phrenology. Psi, you're post seems to suggest that it is at least potentially plausible ?

Mmmmm, it's a tough one.

Certainly, problematic brain development can affect growth of the skull, and likewise skull malformation can affect the brain.

Specifically, one condition called Craniosysostosis is a fusion of the plates, roughly at the points indicated.

Basically, we're all born with undeveloped skulls. The skulls around the cranial vault continue to develop, form and fuse (a process known as ossification) til about the end of puberty. You'll see evidence of this if you've ever touched the top of a new born babies head - there is a hole in the cranial vault where the bone plating has not fused.

Certainly mutations in certain gene encoding leads to disasterous impairment of the process of ossification and it stands to reason that the process will not occur exactly in each individual.

One condition, an impairment of neuronal development (a PEX gene knock out I think), impedes ossification so, without knowing much more about the area, it's plausible. But you'd need to talk to a neuroscientist.

[edit]
That said, I don't think that phrenology is in anyway valid, but as to whether a certain gene mutation could alter skull formation, well it's not totally implausible - depending on the gene.

stormkeeper

Are Phrenology and Phenomenology the same thing? If they are, I have access to the Journal of the British Society for Phenomenology which I could have a look at for any related subjects, provided they are, or is this opening a whole new thing up?

Edit: I just looked at both in Wikipedia, and it does seem that they're similar in some ways, kinda... Phenomenology is a philosophical thing, which can tie into the paranormal too to a degree. I'll check the uni library for Phrenology stuff as well, to compare and contrast.

Here's the two entries:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenomenology
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology

nitefox

Hi 6th and Stoner how are ye and evrybody?.Stoner is right phrenology the fbi cia and lots of diffend govment groups. They would used it on people that where breaking the law all time if you where murderer etc. It has been scientifly show that it real By giving any credance to this we are saying basically that we have little choice in what way or lifes will go no that's not ture because we have all free will so if we murderers we are going to kill somebody but if we are not then we will not kill anybody phrenology was used as a justification for racism and discrimination that's diffly not ture.

Dr Strange

stevenmu wrote:

Well, first of all phrenology is in itself considered a paranormal subject.

I do certainly believe that particular areas of our brains are heavily related to paranormal experiences, and I've posted about this kind of thing a few times. I don't know though if this could be seen to extend to the skull as could be measurable by phrenology. Psi, you're post seems to suggest that it is at least potentially plausible ?

One thing that comes straight to mind is the pineal gland, commonly known in paranormal/new age circles as the third eye. It's been mentioned to me that you can see in some people a slight bump in the foreheads of some people who supposedly have a very active, and therefore presumably larger than average, third eye.

Another thing that comes to mind (yes, I'm going to milk that pun for all it's worth) is some research I posted about before, altough I can't seem to find the link at the moment. Essentially, some researchers discovered that a certain part of the brain (somewhere within the temporal lobe iirc) tended to be larger and more active in people with religous or spiritual beliefs. (there was no evidence to suggest which caused which). I don't know exactly where that was though, or where it would correspond to on the map above. It makes sense though that if it's reasonably close to the skull that if it's larger than normal then that may be measurable in the skull too. Of course it wouldn't lead to some gigantic lump, but afaik phrenology required very accurate measurements of the different sections of the head which were then compared to each other, so subtle differences could show up in that case.

I'll try and look up that research anyway, see what locations it would correspond too.

Again, Phrenology was the "latest craze" amongst the scientific and artistic communities in the 18th and 19th Century. Everyone was "feeling" the other guys head at meetings etc. You even find references to this in the newspapers at the time (particularly the cartoon sections) as well as in novels (e.g. Sir Arthur Conan Doyles' Sherlock Holmes, in which he has Professor Moriarty comment on Holmes's head. There was another story with an enthusiastic phrenologist who wanted a cast of Holmes' skull once he died but I can't remember which story it was).

Again the outside of the skull is depending on outside anatomical structures, particularly the muscles of mastication. These structure leave their "imprints" on the outer skull surface. The brain only expresses itself in pathological cases or problems of a developmental nature on the outside of the skull, such as Microcephaly and Macrocephaly as well as other conditions. The premature fusion of sutures as mentioned earlier by PSI can lead to such conditions as Scaphocephaly.
The Pineal Gland lies further within the brain as to leave any possible mark even on the skulls inner surface.

Any measurement of the skull in medicine or other biological sciences is called Craniometry. Phrenologhy only dealt with the lumps and bumps on the skull which are due to muscle insertions and other soft tissue impressions and have nothing to do with changes in the brain or character.

Best,
P.

6th

stevenmu wrote:

Well, first of all phrenology is in itself considered a paranormal subject.

I think phrenology could at one stage have been concidered a paranormal subject but once it was studied and found to have little or no merit. Its a subject that is no longer outside of our understanding so its no longer paranormal. There are some groups that seem desperate to cling to it but they tend to just want to have a "science" that they can claim to understand.

Our aim (and I may be wrong here) is not to grab as many strange subjects, phenomenon and areas of study as paranormal but to understand them better and therefore introduce them to the mainstream. Its like raising a child and then sending them out into the world .... its about letting go.

The problem here is that I dont think this thread is actually about phrenology and thats something we need to get past. Ladybirdirl's original posted seemed to be saying "hey look at phrenology, it might explain why some people are more likely to experience paranormal phenomenon" ... at least that was my reading of it.

What I get now is that we are looking at the possibility that there may be some physical and observable "feature" (at whatever biological level) which would allow us to identify people who can susceptible to experiencing phenomenon.

As a paranormal enthusiast I like this idea and definately think there is something in it - there must be. I have no doubt that myself and millions of people worldwide are experiencing these things. So taking it as being real there must be a machanic for it .... what & where is there receiver of this information we get, be it claireaudient, clairesentient, clairevoyant etc?

On a spiritual level people will say that no answers are needed, belief and faith are enough ... but this isn't the spirituality forum.

I do have a personal concern with the idea that there is a physiological explaination to peoples experiences, and that it might be possible to indentify those who are predisposed to having them. My concern is that this would essentially be saying people who have these features are different, special etc. This in a world where its so easy to discrimate from either side is worrying.

It I could "geek-out" for a moment, even comics like X-Men have addressed the the very real discrimination and racism that would be aimed at those who are "special" and though who are "less special" ... to the point where it was divided into homosapien and homosuperior. I obviously know that these comics are fantasy but they address real issues and moral situations, even to the point of getting praise from anti-discrimation groups around the world.

So, is it possible that with the advancements in modern science that we could discover a way to identify peopele who are predisposed to experiencing the paranormal? And in doing that is it possible to gain and understanding of the mechanics of these experiences?

Dr Strange

6th wrote:

So, is it possible that with the advancements in modern science that we could discover a way to identify peopele who are predisposed to experiencing the paranormal? And in doing that is it possible to gain and understanding of the mechanics of these experiences?

I think these are valid questions. It would be interesting to see if there is a morphological expression of those people predisposed in any area of the brain. I know people have measured wave-lengths etc. I would be more interested in any structural changes that may be present in our anatomy.
The SPR is examining theses and similar questions from a more psychological and neuro-psychological point of view and even involving physicists. However, it would be interesting to see scientists from a medical background to become involved in empirical research. It is very difficult, I agree, but it would be intriguing.

Best,
P.

6th

I think they might be the questions ladybirdirl was asking in her original post, I am only able to ask them in the way I have because of the thread so far and what it has thrown up.

It is am intriguing idea, that there may actually be telltale signs there if only we knew what to look for.

I have been amazed during prenatal scans of both my kids when I see an experienced nurse/doctor/midwife who is able to spot the potential for future medical conditions based on measurements which to someone with no medical knowledge would seem irrelevant. It just shows that with knowledge and an experienced eye you can observe the most amazing things.

Stoner

Saw this in baggot street last night.

and It's good for you too.

stormkeeper

I did a bit of mooching around in the uni library and came across a 10 page article on out of body experiences, but not much else, although to be fair, I only went through about 1/3 of the phenemonology texts, so there may be something that could tie in with phrenology too... I should prolly look up phrenology texts in the uni library, but I have a feeling I may need to travel into the Kent campus for that, still any excuse to go there!

6th

i think we might have established that this isnt actually about phrenology much less phenemonology ... I could be wrong though.

stormkeeper

6th wrote:

i think we might have established that this isnt actually about phrenology much less phenemonology ... I could be wrong though.

I'm looking at them both from a paranormal context, although I've yet to find something on Phrenology. At the time, I was under the impression that Phrenology and Phenemology were the same thing, or at least related. They are vaguely related in a way though, seeing as they both come under a type of Psychology, as does Philosophy (which phenomology seems to be a type of)... I don't quite get how the shape of one's head determines what sort of person someone is/will be, although thinking about it, have you ever looked at a person and gone "he looks like a such and such"? I think the same principle would have applied to Phrenology really. Either way, you can't judge a book by its cover, but yeah... I'm going off-topic again to a degree, but I end up getting set off by things. >_>

It just shows that with knowledge and an experienced eye you can observe the most amazing things.

About this though... or rather related more to the eye bit. It's been said that luck is related to how observant you are of things. I'm beginning to think that in some cases, the more you know about what you're looking for, the better chance/luck you'll have in finding it. So just as the above is true, also being observant in general can mean that you see or do amazing things.


I'm beginning to realise now that a lot of stuff happens due to state of mind, so if you happen to have a positive state of mind, then things will happen, be it in the paranormal field or in general. So, if you go in expecting nothing to happen, nothing will. It does kind of tie in with (and may partly be set off by) that article you posted in the other thread, so I'll continue there.

6th

stormkeeper wrote:

I'm looking at them both from a paranormal context, although I've yet to find something on Phrenology. At the time, I was under the impression that Phrenology and Phenemology were the same thing, or at least related.

So you came on thinking we were talking about one thing when in fact we were discussing another, thats grand only you are still discussing your error as opposed to discussing the actual topic.

stormkeeper wrote:

They are vaguely related in a way though, seeing as they both come under a type of Psychology

They don't.

Phrenology is a debunked pseudoscience (though its ground work in mapping the actually phsyical areas of the brain would have made it a protoscience at some time). It is a study of a phsyical structure, that at a stretch could be seen as having some basis in Psychology .... but it doesn't.

Phenomology is a philosophy.

Psychology and Philosophy are not the same thing.

Your error was based (most likely on the similar spelling) and yet you continue to try and make a connection that doesn't exist.

stormkeeper wrote:

I don't quite get how the shape of one's head determines what sort of person someone is/will be,

Whats to get its been disproved?! So its not like it could make sense to anyone.

stormkeeper wrote:

have you ever looked at a person and gone "he looks like a such and such"? I think the same principle would have applied to Phrenology really.

What principle? Stating that someone would appear to look like a particular type of person would usually be based on factors like their fashion but I dont anyone looks at the shape of someones head in passing and say any thing like "he looks like a such and such"

stormkeeper wrote:

I'm going off-topic again to a degree, but I end up getting set off by things. >_>

You where set off by your own confusion about the word phrenology which at this stage in the thread actually looks like it has little to do with the discussion.

stormkeeper wrote:

About this though... or rather related more to the eye bit. It's been said that luck is related to how observant you are of things. I'm beginning to think that in some cases, the more you know about what you're looking for, the better chance/luck you'll have in finding it. So just as the above is true, also being observant in general can mean that you see or do amazing things.

By being aware of something you will of course experience it more ... luck has nothing to do with this and its not paranormal. Example: I work in design and advertising so I know fonts etc quite well. Because of that I will spot particular fonts used in the everyday mundane stuff .... is that luck? NO! Other people see the same t hings but give no heed to it and dont acknowledge it.

---

On topic: If you choose to address any part of this then I ask you 3 questions -

In what way is Phrenology a paranormal topic?

In what way is Phenemology a paranormal topic?

If neither of them are paranormal (and they're not) why are you so passionate about discussing them rather than the actual issue this thread is addressing?

If you are confused about the actual issue try reading this:

6th wrote:

So, is it possible that with the advancements in modern science that we could discover a way to identify peopele who are predisposed to experiencing the paranormal? And in doing that is it possible to gain and understanding of the mechanics of these experiences?

GuanYin

6th, at least try to keep a civil disposition.

6th

I am trying but I don't think I've made any point that isnt valid. Phenomology has nothing to do with the paranormal and yet seems to be the whole basis for post I addressed.

I will attempt to control my frustration a bit more though of course.

littlebug

Phenomenology is a philosophy or method of inquiry which describes the meaning of the lived experiences for individual(s) about a concept or phenomenon.

http://www.answers.com/topic/phenomenology

A phenomenological research approach is widely used in health and social sciences and, I assume, can or has also been used in paranormal research in that the focus would be on the individual’s subjective experience of the (paranormal) phenomenon in the same way as a phenomenological study of a persons experience of anything else (e.g experience of illness) could be conducted.

So while you’re right 6th in saying that phenomenology isn’t related to the paranormal but Stormkeeper is also right in that phenomenological methods have been (or could be) used in paranormal research.

However, phenomenology is completely unrelated to phrenology. I know little about it but try as I might I can’t even figure out a tenuous link other than the fact that the words look a bit similar and both are commonly misspelt!

So yes this is yet another OT post and I will gracefully accept a slap on the wrist for it (or ban!) for it.
Maybe phenomenology and the paranormal is a whole new thread in itself. I'm sure there are some interesting studies out there.. If I had the time to look....

Dr Strange

6th wrote:

I am trying but I don't think I've made any point that isnt valid. Phenomology has nothing to do with the paranormal and yet seems to be the whole basis for post I addressed.

I will attempt to control my frustration a bit more though of course.

I agree with 6th that Phrenology has nothing to do with the paranormal. There seems to be a lot of confusion in this thread because of spelling problems. Even though Fowler's Phrenology bust, which is a nice ornament and nothing more, appears on some book covers (mainly divination books) it has absolutely nthing to do with the subject.
Phrenology is a discredited pseudo-science based on the physical landmarks on someone's skull.

Again, don't confuse this with the regions on the brain. Phrenology deals exclusively with the outside of the skull! And there is nothing there that expresses someone's character traits. Maybe we don't like the look of someone and we automatically label him/her. However, physical appearance does not allow us to judge someone's character.

Best,
P.

stevenmu

As far as I am concerned phrenology IS a paranormal topic, worthy of discussion here.

I will remind people that there is a rule stating that nothing is to to be rubbished or ridiculed or dismissed, and that rule will be enforced here.

This is different to providing meaningful evidence as to why something is not valid.

The topic here is to see if our modern understanding of how the brain works can correspond with aspects of the phrenological map, and in particular with regard to areas of the brain we could commonly associate with the paranormal. People are to stick to this topic.

If anyone has a problem with any of this, feel free to PM me.

Riamfada

Phrenology has nothing to do with the Brain. Its skull defmormaties

Dr Strange

Read the charter carefully before posting in this forum again.