Republic of Luas

Transport21 Fan

The DoT on top of the seven Luas lines being built (and the Rathfarnham study), will be including extending the Red Line across a new bridge from the Point to Poolbeg.

The RPA have also been told to undertake studies for Luas systems for Cork, Limerick and Galway.

fricatus

Any source?

markpb

Martin Cullen announced all this yesterday as part of FF's pre-election "promises". He also said that the Luas lines for the other cities and towns wouldn't be here before the next election (2012) at best.

From ireland.com

Mr Cullen said a return of Fianna Fáil to office would see the government asking city authorities in Cork, Limerick and Galway to bring forward proposals for the development of Luas systems in tandem with the Railway Procurement Agency (RPA).

Mr Cullen also revealed a system of "bus-trams" or "streetcars", which were "popular in the US, Canada and some European cities" being considered by Bus Éireann for introduction in regional cities. These are essentially tram "lookalikes" but powered by diesel or biodiesel engines. The bus-trams or streetcars have much lower initial costs than a tram as well as lower operating costs. Bus Éireann is in discussions with Wrights of Ballymena in Northern Ireland on leasing a prototype for use in some regional cities which could go into operation in six months' time.

Which sounds to me like they want to buy some bendi-buses, paint some red patches on the road and call it a light-rail system. Sort of like the rubbish QBC network in Dublin.

mike65

Actually the RPA have been asked to look at Cork, Limerick Galway and Waterford.

Its smacks of electioneering to say the least. Cork and Waterford have poor topography for LUAS type lines, maybe something from Douglas and Wilton directions but thats all I'd say. Corkonians may tell me different. Waterford could run a line from Rice bridge end of quay (bus terminal) out the N25 to the WIT/Industrial estate, Limerick and Galway I don't know at all well enough.

Mike.

MLM

mike65 wrote:

Actually the RPA have been asked to look at Cork, Limerick Galway and Waterford.

Its smacks of electioneering to say the least. Cork and Waterford have poor topography for LUAS type lines, maybe something from Douglas and Wilton directions but thats all I'd say. Corkonians may tell me different. Waterford could run a line from Rice bridge end of quay (bus terminal) out the N25 to the WIT/Industrial estate, Limerick and Galway I don't know at all well enough.

Mike.

LUAS would be suitable in Cork along the old passage west rail line. The right of way for this line has been preserved. A line could run from Carrigline to the new Cork Docklands development via Monkstown, Passage, Rochestown, and Blackrock. A spur could also serve the old Irish Steel site (a prime site, ripe for redevelopment), and the Ringaskiddy industrial area. It would also have the advantage of serving the Mahon Point development, Parc Ui Caoimh, the Showgrounds, and Ringaskiddy ferry port. It could also link in with the cross river ferry at Glenbrook, allowing access to Cobh, Fota etc. There is so much development planned or in construction on this corridor that it needs a LUAS system to be implemented now, and not in 2012. The line should also be extended to the city centre and to to UCC, CIT, and Ballincollig. Such a system was hinted in the CASP six years ago.

Chris_533976

Electioneering at its height.

IF Cork had a Luas, which IMO it does NOT need, one should go from the train station to the bus station and out to Ballincollig via UCC and CIT. The other line from Blackpool to the bus station to Mahon and out to the Airport with possibly a spur for the cross river ferry at Glenbrook.

That said, spending 1/4 or even 1/10 of the money on a decent bus system for Cork would have the same effect entirely.

Here are plans for Galway, which would probobly benefit from Luas more than Cork.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrib_Light_Rail

This is all just pure vote grabbing. Shameful if you ask me.

Transport21 Fan

Electioneering at its height of course. But look at it this way. Rail transport is at the very top of Government policy now. Consider how it was even 5 years ago. We are in the golden age of rail transport in Ireland and it's great to see.

Yes, be cynical, but do not look a gift horse in the mouth either. The government have been badly burnt by not being pro-active enough with rail transport in Dublin and want to avoid this mistake in the rest of the cities before the traffic congestion reaches Dublin levels which every modeled scenario predicts they will. No matter who gets into Government in the next election this cannot be avoided dealing with.

This stuff is a stick to beat them over the head with once they put it out there. Even if we only get one light rail system for Cork out of this, or CIE develop a commuter rail system for Limerick, then why not.

Red Alert

Diesel streetcars would be a step backwards and are a cash sink. If you want trams, buy real ones, if you want buses, buy real buses.

Possibly cork or limerick might take some of the unwanted bendi buses from dublin if they could be used there more succesfully.

Red Alert

Red Alert wrote:

Diesel streetcars would be a step backwards and are a cash sink. If you want trams, buy real ones, if you want buses, buy real buses.

quote]

What's the difference between a diesel streetcar & a bus .

Maybe he is thinking about trollybusses, at least no (local) pollution.

Zoney

mike65 wrote:

Limerick and Galway I don't know at all well enough.

UL, with about 10,000 students, needs to be better connected to the city centre; theoretical bus timings of every 15 minutes that can result in 45 minute (or more!) gaps in service is pretty horrendous. Add to that the fact that single deck buses don't cope with even the demand for the existing hellish unreliable service (this makes me skeptical of the ability of even a double-deck bus service to cater for demand if it was reliable, frequent and straightforward). It needs a dedicated service too rather than a wandering tourbus that weaves various routes through the suburbs but at UL just goes on the main road through the campus (despite it extending across the Shannon into County Clare now).

The Raheen route is similarly a joke - single deck buses just don't cut it, people are regularly left waiting, often after having waited too long for a bus as is. It's theoretically every 10 minutes, but you can wait 30 mins or more. The buses have been known to just not bother calling into the industrial estate if they need to make up time.

Even without quality bus corridors or such *, it's outrageous that Bus Éireann can't do a simple bit of timetable planning based on traffic, peak demand, etc. and instead just produce bare-faced lie clock-face timetables. They don't actually have enough buses for peak times; what buses there are, are stuck in traffic and yet there's higher demand.

* The Raheen route has a bus corridor in the inward direction. It's too short, doesn't have priority at junctions/roundabouts, and in one case abruptly ends with a traffic island in the middle of the lane; thus making a large preceding stretch of the lane useless as the bus needs to be in the "real" lane that actually goes somewhere (traffic is usually heavy, you can't randomly change lane at the last minute).

bk

As a Corkonian living in Dublin I believe this is ridiculous electioneering.

Cork doesn't need LUAS and isn't really suitable for it (though I admit MLM's idea sounds intriguing).

What Cork needs is a vastly improved bus service. Cork's bus service operates more like Dublin Bus did 15 years ago.

- At least double the number of buses.
- You shouldn't have to wait more then 10 minutes for a bus.
- More routes
- Stop parking in the city center for 30 minutes all the time.
- Stop shutting down bus routes to parts of the city just because their are some minor problems.
- More green routes (bus controls the traffic lights).
- I'd like to see control of Cork Bus taking out of the hands of BE and put into it's own company like DB.

This would have a far greater impact on public transport in Cork, could be done in a relatively short time and would cost a fraction of a LUAS line and would have a far greater impact on the city.

But then it isn't "sexy" and the government couldn't just make it a promise to be down far off in the future. A Luas in over 10 years from now, give me a break.

hunnymonster

I live between Dublin and Cork and in Dublin i use public transport exclusively. In Cork it's my car 99% of the time because the public transport just isn't there. I really don't care what they use (bus, luas, ski-lift...) but something is badly needed.

Chris_533976

bk wrote:

As a Corkonian living in Dublin I believe this is ridiculous electioneering.

Cork doesn't need LUAS and isn't really suitable for it (though I admit MLM's idea sounds intriguing).

What Cork needs is a vastly improved bus service. Cork's bus service operates more like Dublin Bus did 15 years ago.

- At least double the number of buses.
- You shouldn't have to wait more then 10 minutes for a bus.
- More routes
- Stop parking in the city center for 30 minutes all the time.
- Stop shutting down bus routes to parts of the city just because their are some minor problems.
- More green routes (bus controls the traffic lights).
- I'd like to see control of Cork Bus taking out of the hands of BE and put into it's own company like DB.

This would have a far greater impact on public transport in Cork, could be done in a relatively short time and would cost a fraction of a LUAS line and would have a far greater impact on the city.

But then it isn't "sexy" and the government couldn't just make it a promise to be down far off in the future. A Luas in over 10 years from now, give me a break.

Exactly what I've been thinking about a Cork Luas for the past few years. Excellent.

I still believe a partial solution to Cork would be to use part of the docklands space for a new Bus Station, and move the current bus station to there. It would provide far greater integration with all the new commuter rail and wouldnt cause the traffic madness that the buses currently do by stopping and piffling about on the quays. All thats needed then is regular feeder buses going solely to the top of Patricks street.

MLM

Chris_533976 wrote:

Exactly what I've been thinking about a Cork Luas for the past few years. Excellent.

I still believe a partial solution to Cork would be to use part of the docklands space for a new Bus Station, and move the current bus station to there. It would provide far greater integration with all the new commuter rail and wouldnt cause the traffic madness that the buses currently do by stopping and piffling about on the quays. All thats needed then is regular feeder buses going solely to the top of Patricks street.

A new bus station was originally proposed for the old An Post sorting office at Eglington Street, but was shot down as people complained it was too far from the existing city centre. What people didn't seem to notice, was the fact that by the year 2020, when the docklands development is complete, this site becomes centrally located. A lack of foresight.
I think Cork needs both a LUAS, and the type and level of bus service bk is suggesting. Traffic levels in Cork today are manageable (certainly in comparison to other Irish cities), due to the partial implementation of LUTS and the building of a decent roads network. This situation will only be maintained if extensive public transport options are put in place. You only have to look at Dublin for an example of what happens to a city when planned public transport imporvements are cancelled. I'm specifically refering to the cancellation of the plan to extend the DART to serve all of Dublin city in the 1980's. This would have given Dublin a state of the art coherent transport network, complete with a central interchange point where Temple Bar is now, rather than the mess that exists today. People need to start thinking about what is going to be needed in ten or twenty years time, rather than playing an expensive and wasteful game of catch-up.