[Article] Metro to run underground at Ballymun

bk

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0420/metro.html

The Metro North rail link in Dublin is to go underground through Ballymun. It is going to be a cut and cover job.

Transport21 Fan

Muggers and Drug Dealers 1
Public Transport Safety 0

I am sure Laro and Spud up in Thomas Clarke Tower will be mulling over the best routes to run and of out of the tunnels over a few spliffs and Dutch Gold tonight. Now they have secluded locations to ply their skills out of public view late at night.


"ehhhhhhhhh storeeeeeeeee bud, check out me class black hoodie for der met-ro ton-al so the Gar-dah can't see me...deadly eh!"

mikemac

Plently of wide open space in Ballymun.
If money can be saved by going overground then by all means do this this.

Are Ballymun residents afraid the possible lack of privacy from the metro and noise will damage their property values:p

dmeehan

i think some of the objections were based upon possible anti-social behaviour under the viaduct etc.

murphaph

Gotta disagree with ya on that one Thomas. I've always felt that what was good enough for the more salubrious areas of Dublin should be good enough for the 'mun. Drug dealers and muggers are a problem but wasn't Ballymun a decent place when it went up? It was the lack of quality infrastructure that started the decline and left the door open for drugs to fill the void in Ballymun 9and places like it). Drugs need tackling in a radical way and we should avoid altering our vision for public spaces based on a problem that should be eradicated (though never will be in truth, in any country). I'm glad Ballymun taxpayers are getting the same quality of infrastructure as the taxpayers in Glasnevin. What we need is a proper transport police to patrol the metro and let people feel safe. The scumbags all over the city need to be put back in their boxes and the decent people can do it by making sure we don't alter our way of life and aspirations based on what deco might do to me around that corner. The stations can be kept bright and airy, especially as they can take advantage of natural light during the day as Copenhagen does. They can make sure that CCTV is top notch and that the Garda response is rapid. Of course, the best solution is for decent people to sit together and face the scumbags down. Failing that, shoot the ba$tards.

daymobrew

micmclo wrote:

Are Ballymun residents afraid the possible lack of privacy from the metro and noise will damage their property values:p

I always thought that the "lack of privacy" would be the same as currently experienced by passing double decker buses. Also, the metro would be considerably quieter than those same double decker buses.

I grew up with double deckers sitting in traffic looking over my back wall. Never bothered me.

Transport21 Fan

I was being sarcastic somewhat with that post Phillp, or should I say "Phil-oh!" as I was playing the counter-NIMBY advocate. If the thing goes underground then fair enough, once it's get's built.

I was very young when we first moved into the flats from the inner city and as hard as it is for people these days to believe, Ballymun was almost glamourus back then. Like we were all living in a Manhattan apartments with endless hotwater, heating and lifts.

What destroyed Ballymun was the 1970's oil crises. The economic downturn wiped out all the factories around it such as Brother, Chrysler, Perri Crisps, Bush Electronics and the entire employment base was gone and never to return in about 6 months. Then the drug dealers moved in to fill the void. All very tragic as Ballymun had amazing community spirit (still does) and it could of been a model community.

I do not buy into this cliche of high-rise living is a failure. It's not in mainland Europe. It's rural TD snobbery and the 'front and back garden' mentality of the Corpo/Irish society which was the problem. It could of worked if the political will to support it was there.

But the oil crises of the 1970's was the killer blow. Which is why I am pro-Nuclear and our own energy security all the way.

Next oil crises - it'll be the thousands of one-off houses in the countryside which will be the next Ballymum and were the degradation and misery will hit hardest the most. How do you get 10 miles for a bottle of milk, 30 miles to your job (if it is still there) and drop the kids off 18 miles to school from your 'O'Southfork' on the side of a hill in Kerry? How will you afford the home-heating oil to heat your gigantic, badly-insulated showcase monolith?

We need an intelligent and brave Green Party and some proper public transport lobbies.

But what do I know, I a bit of an oddball. I should be demanding the semaphores on the Westport branch be reinstalled for social justice or holding an eternal vendetta against the RPA over 30M trams which they sorted out in the end anyways..:rolleyes:

murphaph wrote:

Gotta disagree with ya on that one Thomas. I've always felt that what was good enough for the more salubrious areas of Dublin should be good enough for the 'mun. Drug dealers and muggers are a problem but wasn't Ballymun a decent place when it went up? It was the lack of quality infrastructure that started the decline and left the door open for drugs to fill the void in Ballymun 9and places like it). Drugs need tackling in a radical way and we should avoid altering our vision for public spaces based on a problem that should be eradicated (though never will be in truth, in any country). I'm glad Ballymun taxpayers are getting the same quality of infrastructure as the taxpayers in Glasnevin. What we need is a proper transport police to patrol the metro and let people feel safe. The scumbags all over the city need to be put back in their boxes and the decent people can do it by making sure we don't alter our way of life and aspirations based on what deco might do to me around that corner. The stations can be kept bright and airy, especially as they can take advantage of natural light during the day as Copenhagen does. They can make sure that CCTV is top notch and that the Garda response is rapid. Of course, the best solution is for decent people to sit together and face the scumbags down. Failing that, shoot the ba$tards.

Stimpyone

I know I've said this before, but despite the Metro I feel the Northside is being left behind when comes to public transport.

Currently there are no Luas's or plans for them (as far as I know ) on the Northside, the Dart runs along the East coast and the Metro will run along the Western limits of the city, so basically the entire centre of the Northside has virtually no new public transport infrastructure plans. Current Bus routes are a joke, it seems every estate on the Northside has to be visited before we can head into town, and as for busses over speed bumps, I'm surprised Dublin Bus haven't been sued for spinal damage.

Anybody been up the Malahide road/N32 recently?, How about the M50/Airport roadabout heading towards the N32?, looks like a truck park for most of the day!. Traffics become a nightmare!, and this is before the new mega estates open up along the Malahide road and Balgriffin.

Sorry rant over...

KC61

Stimpyone wrote:

I know I've said this before, but despite the Metro I feel the Northside is being left behind when comes to public transport.

Currently there are no Luas's or plans for them (as far as I know ) on the Northside, the Dart runs along the East coast and the Metro will run along the Western limits of the city, so basically the entire centre of the Northside has virtually no new public transport infrastructure plans. Current Bus routes are a joke, it seems every estate on the Northside has to be visited before we can head into town, and as for busses over speed bumps, I'm surprised Dublin Bus haven't been sued for spinal damage.

Anybody been up the Malahide road/N32 recently?, How about the M50/Airport roadabout heading towards the N32?, looks like a truck park for most of the day!. Traffics become a nightmare!, and this is before the new mega estates open up along the Malahide road and Balgriffin.

Sorry rant over...

The central area is to benefit from two new high frequency direct bus routes in the coming months:

1) 141 Swords Manor-Swords Road-O'Connell Street-Rathmines
2) 128 Malahide Road (may start in Clongriffin first)-Rathmines

Both to operate at a 10-15 minute frequency, without deviation from the relevant QBC, which along with route 4,which runs from Ballymun direct to Phibsboro and then via O'Connell Street to St Vincents Hospital and which is soon to be extended at the southern end to Blackrock, means three new high frequency bus routes in less than a year in this area!

murphaph

Stimpyone wrote:

I know I've said this before, but despite the Metro I feel the Northside is being left behind when comes to public transport.

Disagree.

Stimpyone wrote:

Currently there are no Luas's or plans for them (as far as I know ) on the Northside, the Dart runs along the East coast and the Metro will run along the Western limits of the city, so basically the entire centre of the Northside has virtually no new public transport infrastructure plans.

The metro will run straight up through Glasnevin and Ballymun to Swords. How is this not central? There Are plans to extend green Luas to Broombridge as part of T21. That's the southern part of Finglas/Northern part of Cabra. Pretty northside I'd say. Metro west will run right across the northside before heading south. Do ypu live in one of the places that won't be getting new rail based infrastructure per chance? Think about places like Terenure, Rathfarnham, Ballinteer, Knocklyon, Rathmines etc. etc. and remember there is NOTHING planned wrt. rail based transport to these areas under T21. Count yourself lucky mate (and no, I don't live in any of these places, but I can see that the northside is set to do quite well out of T21).

_Kaiser_

I'm with Stimpyone on this. The Northside is being left behind simply because those making the decisions view it as an afterthought. What about Santry, Coolock, Darndale, Clare Hall etc for example? Large non-car owning population - but then they're also areas with traditionally lots of anti-social problems, unemployment and low-voter turnout, hence they "don't count".

Stimpyone wrote:

Current Bus routes are a joke, it seems every estate on the Northside has to be visited before we can head into town, and as for busses over speed bumps, I'm surprised Dublin Bus haven't been sued for spinal damage.

Yep. The 27 is the perfect example of this. From Clare Hall through Darndale/Priorswood to Northside, before it even starts to turn for the Malahide Road to town, and speed ramps all the way after it turns onto Glin Road.

And despite the fact that the buses are SUPPOSED to run every 5-7 minutes at peak times, the reality is you can be standing for 30-45 minutes on many occasions.

monument

Transport21 Fan wrote:

I do not buy into this cliche of high-rise living is a failure...

We need an intelligent and brave Green Party and some proper public transport lobbies.

It's sad that the Green Party and much of their support base are the ones who are the first to complain about even the mildest of high density development. Meanwhile sprawl goes on and on soaking up green lands and in a way that hinders high quality public transport.

Stimpyone

murphaph wrote:

The metro will run straight up through Glasnevin and Ballymun to Swords. How is this not central? .

Yeah, and that's pretty much it for the Northside.

I would consider the Malahide road pretty much the central artery of the Northside of Dublin. As do DCC as this is where they are putting a lot of their big 7 metre shiny new billboards because of the traffic density in the area.

I don't know if you are familiar with the area or not but we have had some major high density housing developments built in the area (which haven't opened yet). Last week it took me 30mins to travel from the Darndale roundabout to the Hilton a distance of 500 meters, it took be a further 30 mins to travel the length of the N32 onto the M50. Yes I know other people in the city have it bad too but I happen to live in this bit and I'd like proper public transport please.

dermo88

I think a huge opportunity is being lost. Any railway going through the Northside needs to be built to DART, heavy rail standards. It needs to be a DART, at Irish 5'3" (1600mm) gauge.

It also needs to be a brand new route for Dublin to Belfast trains to avoid using the congested Northern line. If it runs from Dublin, through Glasnevin, Finglas, Ballymun, Dublin Airport, Sword, and THEN continues northward to join the Northern line, its got huge potential. It could also be another option for the Navan line.

Adding another non standard system is just going to cause a mess in the long term. Stick with two....DART and Luas, and we'll be fine.

markpb

dermo88 wrote:

I think a huge opportunity is being lost. Any railway going through the Northside needs to be built to DART, heavy rail standards. It needs to be a DART, at Irish 5'3" (1600mm) gauge.

I totally agree that the Northern Dart line has to be four tracked or segregated from IC traffic somehow but frankly, I'd rather see RPA + contractor run the Metro North than CIE/IR any day. I used the Dart for two years and I'm just after starting to use the Luas and the difference in day to day things is huge. I don't have to spell it out for you, we've been through this on P11 forums before.

murphaph

dermo88 wrote:

I think a huge opportunity is being lost. Any railway going through the Northside needs to be built to DART, heavy rail standards. It needs to be a DART, at Irish 5'3" (1600mm) gauge.

It also needs to be a brand new route for Dublin to Belfast trains to avoid using the congested Northern line. If it runs from Dublin, through Glasnevin, Finglas, Ballymun, Dublin Airport, Sword, and THEN continues northward to join the Northern line, its got huge potential. It could also be another option for the Navan line.

Adding another non standard system is just going to cause a mess in the long term. Stick with two....DART and Luas, and we'll be fine.

The metro is really just superLuas. they should drop the metro tag. I'm happy with 'metro' being compatible with Luas. There are umpteen possibilites down the road when we remember that most of BOTH the green and red lines are highly segregated light rail. The red line could dive underground at Fatima and connect up with the tunnel at the green before heading towards Swords. I do believe that the northern line needs quad tracking however. I also believe the metronorth lineshould be extended to Donabate asap.

Zebra3

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1817069&issue_id=15542

Cullen's underground 'u-turn' on Metro rail-line will cost the taxpayer an extra €200m

A NEW plan to make the Metro rail-line run underground at a north Dublin station will cost taxpayers an extra €200m.

Ballymun residents were celebrating last night after the Government abandoned plans to put the line on stilts through their area.

Residents and politicians welcomed the "u-turn" by Transport Minister Martin Cullen and said it was a victory for people power. But officials involved in the Metro construction revealed that the plan to bore a 'cut and cover' opening in the ground will cost around €200m extra. The Railway Procurement Agency (RPA) unveiled the revised plan yesterday following consultation with local people.

Axe

The decision to axe the original plan followed local opposition to the agency's proposal to put the rail-line on stilts.

Residents in the area submitted an objection signed by 1,000 local people to the agency and Mr Cullen's office earlier this month.

They claimed the rejuvenated area would suffer traffic congestion if the line went overground and the rail-line would divide the area in two.

The new plan means that the Metro line will run uninterrupted below the ground from a terminus at St Stephen's Green until it emerges at Santry.

A spokesperson for the RPA said yesterday: "The minister indicated yesterday that extra monies were available as part of the Transport 21 plan."

Metro North is scheduled for completion in 2013 and will run from St Stephen's Green to Swords, through Dublin Airport. The city-centre section will be a deep-bore tunnel. It had been planned to run the line overland (on stilts or at ground level) from Dublin City University onwards.

Labour's spokesperson on Transport Roisin Shortall said Mr Cullen had been forced into a "significant volte face" on the issue.

He had repeatedly told her in the Dail, as recently as three weeks ago, that the Metro would not go underground through Ballymun.

Mr Cullen's spokeswoman denied any u-turn. She said the decision had been made by the RPA after an extensive consultation with locals.

Anne-Marie Walsh

Is it just me or does anyone else think the government/RPA chanced their arm on getting it to go above ground through Ballymun?

I reckon they'd expected to have to put it underground and by doing so eventually, can now claim to have "listened to the poeple".

bryanw

No, I think its just more biased rubbish from the Indo.
I think they're more pre-occupied with "government bashing" than telling people what is really going on.

AlekSmart

Quote [KC61]

" The central area is to benefit from two new high frequency direct bus routes in the coming months:

1) 141 Swords Manor-Swords Road-O'Connell Street-Rathmines
2) 128 Malahide Road (may start in Clongriffin first)-Rathmines

Both to operate at a 10-15 minute frequency, without deviation from the relevant QBC, which along with route 4,which runs from Ballymun direct to Phibsboro and then via O'Connell Street to St Vincents Hospital and which is soon to be extended at the southern end to Blackrock, means three new high frequency bus routes in less than a year in this area!" [End]

Hmm Spot the contradiction....

Sending the 141 Via O Connell St immediately cancels out the High Frequency and the Direct bit.

The original routeing was I believe along the "Old" 41 Gardiner St corridor. this could have allowed a number of options when across the Liffey but now we simply have more of the same...Ho Hum.

At this juncture I believe we need some form of Legal ban on ANY further Bus Routes being stuffed into O Connell St.

Dublin Bus could and should be leading from the front here rather than slavishly following the "Sure dats where de people want to go" mantra......It`s NOT where they want to go Its where DB INSIST on bringing them !......:mad:

bk

OT, I was thinking why aren't their any direct bus services for places like Swords and Balbriggan operating through the port tunnel and M1?

Imagine a bus service that operated through the port tunnel and up the M1 with only one or tow stops on the out skirts of Swords and Balbriggan, with a local bus service then bringing you into Swords and Balbriggan.

Victor

Whats that got to do with Ballymun? or Metro?

On-topic folks, sometimes it wanders a little too much.

notjim

This has to be the right thing, running at grade in this area is bound to cause transport delays and putting the metro on stilts will wreck the area. I used to live in NYc and cycle up park avenue and nowhere have I ever seen such a stark socio-economic transition as at the point where the 2/3 emerges from the ground to run on stilts. The same is true of where the 1/9 comes out.

spacetweek

(Indo Article) Metro North is scheduled for completion in 2013

2013? Gah, it's slipped??

A Dub in Glasgo

This is good news.

If the argument is based on cost alone, why were the RPA going underground to DCU?

Victor

Whats to stop most of it being underground and the station(s) being at ground level?

Ste.phen

Victor wrote:

Whats to stop most of it being underground and the station(s) being at ground level?

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It'd be like a see-saw train

Victor

Igy wrote:

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It'd be like a see-saw train

But there is only one stop in Ballymun itself and hte land will undulate anyway.