Poolbeg Luas Line and Feight Trams

Transport21 Fan

With the new Luas line from The Point to Poolbeg now in the planning stages. Surely this provides a opertunity to deal with the main issue surrounding the incinerator being planned for there. Lorries.

By the time both projects are built there will be a substantial web of interconnected Luas lines around the city which could deal with the truck problem by transport the rubbish to the incinerator on freight trams at night.

IIRC this is what's happening in Zurich already. Freighttrams are in operation in a few cities around Europe now. There is even a freight service on Manchester Metrolink at night. So why not Dublin?

murphaph

Would a bloke hang off the back of it? In reality this would work well if the will was there. I find it funny that there's such opposition to the incinerator there. Where do city centre residents think their rubbish should go? Fingal superdump no. 20? We obviously need to recycle as much as possible and that's way more than we do currently. The remainder should be incinerated to generate energy and reduce landfill. The incinerators should be close to the waste to prevent CO2 emmissions being generated getting it to the burners, sort of the opposite to food miles!

Slice

With the new Luas line from The Point to Poolbeg now in the planning stages. Surely this provides a opertunity to deal with the main issue surrounding the incinerator being planned for there. Lorries.

When was this announced?

loyatemu

murphaph wrote:

I find it funny that there's such opposition to the incinerator there. ...

would you want an incinerator in your back yard?
I've no major problem with incineration, but if they were proposing to build one beside me I'd certainly oppose it. Hypocritical? Maybe, but understandable.

Chris_533976

There would be uproar if this was suggested. Sure, its a good idea and a good use of infrastructure, but residents would find a reason to cause an uproar. Be it noise, smell, emissions, or whatever.

murphaph

loyatemu wrote:

would you want an incinerator in your back yard?

It's not in anyone's backyard though It's to be in a heavily industrialised area near the Poolbeg power station which will still dwarf it and is a fair distance from any residential. In any case.....I live in Fingal and we're used to the city's problems being 'relocated' to this county.....Prison, superdump, sewage treatment, new port etc. Let Dublin city take care of some of its own problems 'in house' where reasonably possible. If the residents are really so opposed to incineration let them store their own waste for 6 months. Perhaps they'd then realise just how much they generate. Me? I live quite close to a power station and if they said they were gonna stick a modern municipal incinerator (the type the 'green' Germans/swedes/swiss use with no apparant statistical increase in illness) then I'd have no problems tbh. Then again, I don't fit the typical hysterical irish person's mould. Not sayin you do Loyatemu. Of course, they should perhaps spend the money on industrial scale recyclying recovery facilities first before going down the incinerator route. I wonder of all the objectors, what percentage recycles 100% of recoverable waste.

Enigma365

But isn't Fingal where these things belong?

pclancy

I think the use of the lines would be an excellent idea for freight traffic at night. Why not use infrastructure thats sitting there at night doing nothing? Anything thats more environmentally friendly then lorries has to be good.

gobdaw

Very interesting notion.

To put another brick into the structure, electricity cann't be stored. Fossel generated power stations can be switched off at periods of low demand, but green generated stations (wind or hydro) could continue to generate power. Luas could use this and reduce our carbon deficit.

Well worth looking at.

Del2005

gobdaw wrote:

Very interesting notion.

To put another brick into the structure, electricity cann't be stored. Fossel generated power stations can be switched off at periods of low demand, but green generated stations (wind or hydro) could continue to generate power. Luas could use this and reduce our carbon deficit.

Well worth looking at.

The problem with that is when the wind dies down then the Trams stop, there would have to be a power station running idle to cover the falls in wind energy. There would be no benfit. If we had proper high capacity interconnectors we could sell all our access green electricity to Europe and then when winds die down buy back dirty electricity from them

murphaph

Del2005 wrote:

The problem with that is when the wind dies down then the Trams stop

But the water can keep running through just one of the hydro stations, afterall that's how they get the power to pump the water back to the top of Turlough Hill each night. It's basically free power that would otherwise go to waste, so the ESB uses it to pump potential energy (water) back to the top of the hill ready for the next surge in demand (morning and tea time I believe is when it kicks in usually). The tram usage would be no different. No matter what about interconnectors-much of Europe has 'always on' renewable generation and they sleep and work at almost the same times as us give an hour. You'd have to interconnect with places much further away to be able to use our green energy to power them during our night and vice-versa. The theory is pretty sound though....more interconnectors definitely needed and of course, then we're using Nuclear (well, we're technically already using some nuclear now from GB)

Transport21 Fan

Nuclear power generation is only viable option for Ireland going forward.

At some point Ireland is going to have to mature and grow up as a country and deal with the amazing risks we currently play with our imported energy supply.

Sadly this country has a rmentality to Nuclear power which our grandparents had to birth control and this current generation has to give up their unrealistic "coitus interupptus" wind and tidal power rubbish and build some nuclear reactors.

We need brave politicians and a Green Party not out of step with other Green Parties in Europe on this issue. FAST.

And if you think the oil stuff is all vested interests then do some research on the "Green Energy" companies. It's a real eye-opener.

ManAboutCouch

If one of the outputs of the incineration process is electricity, how about using the incinerator to power the Luas?

Of course the amount of power generated might not fully over the entire requirements of the Luas system, but it would certainly help it's green credentials.

murphaph

I wonder if the area of D4 concerned received free power and piped hot water from this incinerator would they still object.

MarkoP11

On behalf of the Platform 11 committee we would like to distance ourselves from the above comments and ask that the poster remove them

I would point out Platform 11 has no position on incinerators, nuclear energy or any related matter, under our constitution that is outside our scope of concern, we can't have an opinion. We have no interest in this matter nor do we have an interest in freight services (unless they impact negatively on passengers). The personal opinions of someone should not associated with the official stated policy of a company or organisation they represent or claim to.

Policy is decided by committee and always had been not by one person, if someone wishes to discuss our policies boards is not where to do it, we have a forum.

aliveandkicking

The words knickers and twist spring to mind

Think Sean was referring to the use of tram lines at night as freight lines rather than incinerators and such like.

Victor

murphaph wrote:

It's not in anyone's backyard though It's to be in a heavily industrialised area near the Poolbeg power station which will still dwarf it and is a fair distance from any residential. In any case.....I live in Fingal and we're used to the city's problems being 'relocated' to this county.....Prison, superdump, sewage treatment, new port etc.

So where do Fingal prisoners go?
Where is Fingal sewage treated?
How are Fingal heavy goods transported?

murphaph wrote:

But the water can keep running through just one of the hydro stations, afterall that's how they get the power to pump the water back to the top of Turlough Hill each night. It's basically free power that would otherwise go to waste

Not 'free' - least expensive.

Transport21 Fan

MarkoP11 wrote:

On behalf of the Platform 11 committee we would like to distance ourselves from the above comments and ask that the poster remove them

I would point out Platform 11 has no position on incinerators, nuclear energy or any related matter, under our constitution that is outside our scope of concern, we can't have an opinion. We have no interest in this matter nor do we have an interest in freight services (unless they impact negatively on passengers). The personal opinions of someone should not associated with the official stated policy of a company or organisation they represent or claim to.

Policy is decided by committee and always had been not by one person, if someone wishes to discuss our policies boards is not where to do it, we have a forum.

Sean was talking about the proposed facility at Poolbeg being serviced at night by FreightTrams which is what the topic is about.

This idea has been kicking around for a while since I delivered it to over 800 people at the 'Capital Punishment' event at CityWest Hotel to a standing ovation a few years back and it's something which I have always kept in the back of my mind as a good idea for fusing rail and environmental issues in a media/politically sexy way.

I still think it's a good idea and worthy of further discussion. This is all Sean was implying in his post and nothing more or nothing less.

murphaph

Victor wrote:

stuff

They would be fair points if I was stating that none of these things should happen-I didn't state that, but you do get what I'm saying? The city must be able to tackle at least some of its waste problems itself. The answer lately seems to be to move everything to rural Fingal. Poolbeg is an industrial area, not Grafton St. It is as acceptable to put an incinerator there as anywhere else. I accept that Dublin City has no landfill and has to use sites in adjacent counties. I'm even ok with the notion of moving the Port to enhance our capital city, even to Fingal! I don't have a huge problem with a prison moving to Fingal. I'm ok with these things, just highlighting that the city could tackle this aspect of its waste control 'on its own turf' so to speak, is there anything wrong with that assertion?

SeanW

Post withdrawn altogether.

I want to make it absolutely crystal clear that I post here as an individual only, and views and thoughts expressed in my posts are mine alone, and that I did not, and do not intend to, speak for anyone else or their positions on any matter.

Victor

So how will this operation work in practice? Where will the trams pick up the rubbish? How will it be loaded and unloaded? Is there a precedent for rubbish trams.

popebenny16

Victor wrote:

Is there a precedent for rubbish trams.

Yes, it's called LUAS.

Chris_533976

Clever