fine

unnameduser

a quick q. How do bus / luas conductors issue on the spot fines? How do they know who you are?? (can they restrain you and call the coppers if you try do a legger?)

unnameduser

any ideas on this?

godtabh

Ring up DB or the luas maybe

dermot_sheehan

Byelaw 58 of Dublin Bus byelaws allow the inspector to detain you:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZSI236Y1990.html

Under the luas bye laws however an inspector can only ask you to leave
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZSI100Y2004.html
They could of course call the guards who have a power of arrest under the Transport (Railway Infrastructure) Act
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA55Y2001S67.html

Enigma365

On the luas, if you dont have a ticket and just walk away from them, they threaten to call the guards and remind you that you are on camera. Thats what happened to someone I know.

Would be easier and less risky to just give a false name and address. Not that I condone that kind of behaviour.

BTW, on a related note. If you are caught shop-lifting by a security guard, are they allowed to detain you? If you just ran away with/without the stolen goods, would they be entitled to chase and detain you?

dermot_sheehan

Theft carries more then 5 years in prison (it carries up to 10 years) so civilians have a power of arrest under s. 4 of the Criminal Law Act 1997

daymobrew

Enigma365 wrote:

Would be easier and less risky to just give a false name and address. Not that I condone that kind of behaviour.

I've heard that the Irish Rail guys ask you for a phone number of your house (presumably a landline) which they ring there. I guess that the number can be used to track you.

gabhain7 wrote:

Theft carries more then 5 years in prison (it carries up to 10 years) so civilians have a power of arrest under s. 4 of the Criminal Law Act 1997

Most people probably don't realise that a crime must have at least a 5 year jail sentence before a citizen's arrest is possible.

Piste

I got stung today, he asked me for ID and I said I was 16 and had none at all, then gave a fake name and address and hopped off never to be heard of again. Though he said I was caught on CCTV, but that doesn't really mean anything, cos I wasn't doing anything.

It's not nice having everyone stare at you though.

Seth Brundle

gabhain7 wrote:

Byelaw 58 of Dublin Bus byelaws allow the inspector to detain you:
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZSI236Y1990.html

gabhain7 wrote:

civilians have a power of arrest under s. 4 of the Criminal Law Act 1997

But I presume they can't restrain the alleged offender so the powers are somewhat useless.

Ham'nd'egger

Piste wrote:

I got stung today, he asked me for ID and I said I was 16 and had none at all, then gave a fake name and address and hopped off never to be heard of again. Though he said I was caught on CCTV, but that doesn't really mean anything, cos I wasn't doing anything.

It's not nice having everyone stare at you though.

Hang up a sec.... You were caught for something and asked for your ID, but you were not doing anything... Explain that one for please

MarkoP11

Hamndegger wrote:

Hang up a sec.... You were caught for something and asked for your ID, but you were not doing anything... Explain that one for please

Child fare? you must be under 16 to get it

The notice issued will have the exact reason on it

Victor

Enigma365 wrote:

Would be easier and less risky to just give a false name and address. Not that I condone that kind of behaviour.

Do you really want to be arrested (oddly enough, under the Offences Against the State Act) for something like this?

If you ever have to get a security clearance, how will an arrest under the Offences Against the State Act look?

Piste wrote:

I got stung today, he asked me for ID and I said I was 16 and had none at all, then gave a fake name and address and hopped off never to be heard of again.

Boo! Hiss!

antoinolachtnai

You don't get it, do you?

The way this works is as follows. The majority of Luas customers are regular customers. The same people, every day, because they rely on the Luas to get to work or school.

The inspectors recognise a lot of the regular customers. People find this hard to believe, but they do. If you travel up and down every day, and spend a while looking at the CCTV now and again you get to know a lot of people.

In particular, inspectors recognise people who have dodged fares in the past. Then it's easy to spot them again. If you start doing the false name stuff, they will get to know you particularly well. The will know where you get on and where you get off. They will quickly figure out if you are trying to play the odds. The CCTV means that they have your picture as well so they can tell all their inspector friends about you back at the depot.

This is why the honour system works. Purely random inspections are only part of it. It's the fact that 90 percent of users are regular, and that inspectors can quickly get to know the chancers.

Chris_533976

Also body language tells a lot. An inspector will know if you're pulling the piss and lieing about your address. Then he'll make sure to bug you in the future.

Can you remember the fake name and address you gave him? If not, you'll be royally screwed when he asks you the next time, because if he suspects you I'll bet he remembers the fake name and address.

Pay for the ride, be honest, everyone wins.