Voting with Family tradition

Ulster9

How many people vote using family tradition as their motivation?
I suspect many FF and FG supporters still vote the way their families have done, an almost unquestioning loyalty to a party.I know many people who are FF or FG simply because its the way their parents voted and not out of any ideological perspective.For example who can highlight 5 major ideological differences between FF and FG?

Sleepy

I consider anyone voting this way to be stupid to the point they shouldn't be let vote*.

If you're voting out of a misguided sense of loyalty to a political party or family rather than for people policies you believe will improve the governance of the country you live in. There is *no* other acceptable way to vote imho.

*my fourth revising of this statement and the only one fit to be put out in public.

Múinteoir

Certainly people do it, but it's overestimated and it's definitely in decline. If you genuinely study voting patterns over the history of the state you'll find that the swing from one party to the other has been very large sometimes and people also forget that some of the now defunct parties made big inroads into the votes of FF/FG in the past, like the Farmers Party, Clann na Talún, Clann na Poblachta etc. The Irish political landscape was never as clear cut as some make out.

thebman

There is a twisted logic to it though. Mostly I think its parents putting pressure on kids to vote the same way they do because they are convinced they are right and their kids know nothing and will make the wrong choice.

My da is always talking up Brian Cowen but I don't like the guy all that much. He's not the worst politician but some of the things he provides funding for and not in the budget put me off him.

Múinteoir

brim4brim wrote:

There is a twisted logic to it though. Mostly I think its parents putting pressure on kids to vote the same way they do because they are convinced they are right and their kids know nothing and will make the wrong choice.

My da is always talking up Brian Cowen but I don't like the guy all that much. He's not the worst politician but some of the things he provides funding for and not in the budget put me off him.

My judgement also of Brian Cowen is that he is 'best of a bad bunch', which is hardly a compliment.

RainyDay

The Irish Times reported on 30th Sept 2006 that family voting history was one of the 2 major factors that influenced voting patterns;

A party leader's popularity and issues such as health and crime have relatively little significance in determining how people vote in general elections, new research has found.

Rather, the two most important determinants of party choice are family voting history and personal acquaintance with a candidate, with almost 75 per cent of voters in the 2002 general election having met the candidate who received their first preference.


These findings, which are to be published next year, were presented yesterday to an international conference at Trinity College in Dublin. They were produced by the Irish National Election Study (2002-2007), which is examining how Irish people voted in the last general election and the likely factors that will influence their voting behaviour in the next election.

Dontico

I'm YFG. I'm very active. I'm a vice-chairperson for my area.

My father is Sinn Fein.

brianthebard

Dad's FF and Mam's FG. And I'm neither.

ninty9er

Dontico wrote:

I'm YFG. I'm very active. I'm a vice-chairperson for my area.

My father is Sinn Fein.

I've been active in Ógra Fianna Fáil for 2 years now at college.

My parents are FF/Lab leaning floating voters and my granny and grandad are cardholding FG members. My dad's dad is FF enough being from Clare but not really into politics at all

daveirl

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stovelid

Dad has always been SF. I'm not.

Judt

I think that for every one person you might find voting with mam and dad, you might find a bunch of others who don't. What I think influences you though is if you don't look into candidates yourself and do the research, then naturally you'll be inclined to vote for the person somebody you know has been talking up.

DMC

Don't forget kids, all politics is local. Probably more so down the country. In small rural communities, if there is someone in your local party committee that you personally don't like or that your parents don't like, that could subconsciously trigger an effect not to vote for that party.

The make-up of a local cumman or party organisation, and of those canvassing on your door-step, are quite an influential factor for some people.

upmeath

daveirl wrote:

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Great post, daveirl, you've hit a few nails on the head there.
My mother's FG, so are her parents and all are relatively unquestioning.
My father's Labour with a tendency to support certain FG policies in recent years. I guess it's true what they say about people becoming more conservative as they age!
I'm a Labour/Green floater at the minute but would have described myself as solely Labour up until about 6 months ago. I dislike the FF, PDs and SF equally (okay maybe I dislike the PDs a little bit more ) This will be my first time to vote, but I've studied all manifestos, policies, controversies, polls, and the things candidates inside and outside my own constituency have been saying for 5 years now and I've made (what I believe to be) an informed decision on who I want to see in power.

Anyway, people need to shape their own beliefs politically as much as they do religiously. Your parents might baptise you because they think their faith is what's best for you, but when the time comes you make your own decisions on these things.
Unfortunately for quite a large proportion of the Irish population that time never comes because they hold their parents opinions too highly to think for themselves.
I'm not saying we've nothing to thank our parents for, but we shouldn't feel any expectation to follow their religious or political beliefs without careful consideration of what we're voting for or following.

Chakar

I've been active for two years in OFF in college. The majority of my family would support FF.

Lennoxschips

obviously they aren't using public transport or the hospitals on a regular basis

Victor

Ulster9 wrote:

I suspect many FF and FG supporters still vote the way their families have done, an almost unquestioning loyalty to a party.I know many people who are FF or FG simply because its the way their parents voted and not out of any ideological perspective.

Why do you limit it to FF & FG?

E92

Well my parents are Fine Gael, but I've a cousin who's a Shinner(he changed his name to the Irish version and all, I'm like thats a bit sad but there you go), in spite of the fact that his parents are extreme Fine Gael. There's Fianna Fáil blood in me too,on my dad's side his dad and their family were mad Fianna Fáil. To be honest I'm from the more liberal end of the party, I dont see a problem with the age of consent being 16, for instance(and of course Fine Gael made a big song and dance about it not being lowered some time back). I'm like a Labour person on things like that, whereas some of my family would be very much opposed to my views on moral issues. I often slag my old pair, saying that they would never accept me if I wasnt a Blueshirt supporter , but the truth is that I've always found Fine Gaels views on things closest to my own, therefore I will vote for them come this summer, and I had listened to what other parties had to say, and Fine Gael's policies made the most sense and were closest to my own.

I have to say I'm pleasntly surprised by Dontico, especially given that you say your old man is Sinn Fein, I would never have thought that anyone whose parent(s) are Sinn Fein voters/supporters would even consider voting for anyone other than SF, but as I say, its nice to have FG supporters on this board:) .

Time Magazine

I joined FG without any knowledge of my parents' allegiances (other than them liking Catherine Murphy for her work over the years). Turns out my dad was a member for a few years when he about my age and my mam's family could be considered fairly strong FG with her brother and niece both members.

upmeath

E92 wrote:

I have to say I'm pleasntly surprised by Dontico, especially given that you say your old man is Sinn Fein, I would never have thought that anyone whose parent(s) are Sinn Fein voters/supporters would even consider voting for anyone other than SF, but as I say, its nice to have FG supporters on this board:) .

I never imagined it possible either tbh, anyone I know whose parents are FF or SF tend to be one or the other themselves, I don't know of anyone whose parents are FF or SF who would ever consider voting FG, particularly whose parents are SF!

grumpytrousers

Sleepy wrote:

If you're voting out of a misguided sense of loyalty to a political party or family rather than for people policies you believe will improve the governance of the country you live in. There is *no* other acceptable way to vote imho.

To go slightly OT for the moment on that very point...I agree fundamentally with the point you make here Sleepy...but as a matter of interest

a) do most people here agree with it
b) do most people here think that the general population think this and
c) contrast with DMCs comment where he says 'all politics is local'

do we as a nation, in other words, vote as a rule for cute-hoor-backwoodsmen-parish-pump types who will 'see us right' as individuals, rather than people who have managed to grow the cock and balls necessary to stand up and say 'no, this is a harsh decision that won't be popular, but i'll support it', and do we do it 'cos it was drilled into us by our parents...

and regarding the main topic of the discussion...mam and dad were both FF...the da, 'cos he knew people in the party, but once Haughey got into power, he was never as unwavering in his support, and - indeed as far back as 1982 - i can remember old Pa Grumpytrousers muttering about 'that f*cking crook'...so he started to vote on the personality as opposed to the party; certainly not as highminded as one would hope, but a fecks sight better than 'have-to-vote-for-the-party'...

nesf

My thing is that you are shaped to a large degree by your parents and some of their politics is going to rub off on you. My attitude towards religion is very much informed by my mother's attitude. She's a very devout Catholic but doesn't equate Catholicism and the Church and believes that it's a personal choice and has little to say about other people's beliefs other than she might pray that they find faith. I'm a very long way from being a devout Catholic but I share my mother's attitudes towards other faiths and people, I consider it to be a personal thing.


My politics is informed to a degree by my parents. I grew up in a FF house with FF grandparents on both sides. More importantly (in my opinion) I grew up in a pro-business house, with a mixed view of unions (i.e. without them we're ****ed but with them we're also ****ed but for different reasons) which shaped the beginning of my economic thinking.

I'd see eye to eye with my parents on a lot of political issues, I share many of their concerns and have much the same expectations but I'm substantially more right wing economically speaking than either of my parents and more liberal socially. Tbh I identify more with the PDs than FF if you really want to get down to it but that's a different point. All I'm saying is that families tend towards having similar attitudes and concerns, though you will have exceptions like Dontico I agree.

Lennoxschips

I'd never join a political party, as I like to keep my own view on things. I might consider voting for labour, if I was pushed. Incidentally, my grandfather was big into the unions and voted labour, so maybe there's a link there, who knows...

DMC

grumpytrousers wrote:

To go slightly OT for the moment on that very point...I agree fundamentally with the point you make here Sleepy...but as a matter of interest

a) do most people here agree with it
b) do most people here think that the general population think this and
c) contrast with DMCs comment where he says 'all politics is local'

do we as a nation, in other words, vote as a rule for cute-hoor-backwoodsmen-parish-pump types who will 'see us right' as individuals, rather than people who have managed to grow the cock and balls necessary to stand up and say 'no, this is a harsh decision that won't be popular, but i'll support it', and do we do it 'cos it was drilled into us by our parents...

Going to each point...

a) we'd like to think so.
b) no
c) you know my answer already

At the end of the day, people vote for local issues. Weather its the roads, the local hospital, the schools... they are not interested in the national curriculum or what the tribunals get up to (cf Michael Lowry and Beverly Flynn)

What is it that links all the hospital independent TD's? They all want services at their local hospital. For their constituency. Vote winner.

NIMBY-ism and parochial issues come to the fore.

Now, is that a flaw in the electorate or a flaw in the system that elects these people?

ninty9er

I think the all politics is local stems from the fact that to be a TD, in reality you hvae to have been a councillor first (in general). It's aload of bull and Irish local government is about effective as an underwater hairdryer with very few exceptions.

Then again; if our TD populaiton actually spent all of it's time legislating, imagine what kind of crap we'd have on the statute books:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I see no value in elected local government. It exists because of the English system and is a waste. Leave it to the officials and county managers who would get on fine in their jobs without Councillors and aldermen

Marcus.Aurelius

People should never vote based on "Mammy and Daddy's" preferences! Its outrageous! If you can't see the issues at hand, the stagnation of the economy and the idiot FF govt sitting on their backsides grinning while grannies die on hospital trollies and we get taxed to death in a so called "rich country", you should be shot.

Extreme? maybe so, but we've had enough trouble in the last ten years, I'm so fed up of them. 33% of people out there vote FF and still can't see that its an-round idiot idea. No party follows their manefesto! We need change. Don't let that scumbag think he's invincible. You're twice as likely to be a victim of crime thanks to FF. If you voted them in last time after their terrible mis-management, this is your chance to redeem yourself.

Dave!

I'd say of the people who vote but aren't into politics, most would be voting on personality or appearance rather than on family recommendation.

I'm more concerned about the oul' ones trying to vote for De Valera, to be honest.

nesf

maoleary wrote:

People should never vote based on "Mammy and Daddy's" preferences! Its outrageous! If you can't see the issues at hand, the stagnation of the economy and the idiot FF govt sitting on their backsides grinning while grannies die on hospital trollies and we get taxed to death in a so called "rich country", you should be shot.

Extreme? maybe so, but we've had enough trouble in the last ten years, I'm so fed up of them. 33% of people out there vote FF and still can't see that its an-round idiot idea. No party follows their manefesto! We need change. Don't let that scumbag think he's invincible. You're twice as likely to be a victim of crime thanks to FF. If you voted them in last time after their terrible mis-management, this is your chance to redeem yourself.

Two points: making your decision to vote and having it informed to some degree by someone's preferences isn't the same as basing your vote on someone's preferences and just because someone doesn't vote the way you do doesn't mean that they're wrong and you're right or vice versa.

Time Magazine

nesf wrote:

Two points: making your decision to vote and having it informed to some degree by someone's preferences isn't the same as basing your vote on someone's preferences and just because someone doesn't vote the way you do doesn't mean that they're wrong and you're right or vice versa.

I agree with the FFer on this one.

daveirl

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Dandesav

I just turned 18 last September so this is my first time voting. Since then I've been following politics more and I found out my mum's family are die-hard Fianna Fáilers but she never pushed it on me or anything. My dad would be neither but I suspect that he leans a little towards Fine Gael.

I decided to keep an open mind and I've picked Fine Gael this time round because I think we need a new government but also because I think they are a much better party- I agree with their policies and they are much more honest and trustworthy than FF (though that's not saying much...!). I can't understand why people vote according to their families' so-called allegiences- the Civil War was over 80 years ago, surely we can get over it by now!! I certainly would never vote FG or FF because of my views on the Civil War- there's no comparing FG now to CnaG or FF now to FF then!

nesf

Dandesav wrote:

I decided to keep an open mind and I've picked Fine Gael this time round because I think we need a new government but also because I think they are a much better party- I agree with their policies and they are much more honest and trustworthy than FF (though that's not saying much...!).

See that's exactly how you should pick a party to vote for. The question is how much of your concerns and more importantly, the issues you rank highly when comparing policies, were/are influenced by your upbringing. I believe that it's perfectly possible to make a choice as you have above and still side with your parent's party. The economy for me is my main concern, and I know I was definitely at least pointed in that direction in my upbringing since it was something that my family was concerned about and discussed when I was young. I'm sure others would rank healthcare or green policies or "the worker" (it can mean several different things) for similar reasons.