Ben really born on the island?

h0stn0tf0und

Juliet said every pregnant woman on the island had died except for Claire. She had developed a treatment that kept them alive.

Ben told Locke he was born on the island, long before there was a treatment. How did Ben come into being!?

Sad Professor

Well either the pregnancy problems started after Ben was born...or...Ben was conceived off island. Juliet believed the problem was with those who conceived on the island, which is why Aaron and perhaps Alex were ok.

ZiabR

h0stn0tf0und wrote:

Juliet said every pregnant woman on the island had died except for Claire. She had developed a treatment that kept them alive.

Ben told Locke he was born on the island, long before there was a treatment. How did Ben come into being!?

Yeah mate, as my mate the Professor has said . The women that become pregnant while on the Island died, but Claire/Rousseu were pregnant before they got to the Island. The fact that Juliet is only on the Island just over 3 years, would indicate that the problem with pregnancy on the Island is a new enough one. Ben is late 30's maybe 40. The problem may not have existed back when he was born.

matt-dublin

watch the episode...
had died during childbirth or soon afterwords.

Killaqueen!!!

Also we don't know if Ben was telling the truth but I think he was because he's the leader (bar, perhaps Jacob) so it would make sense, he doesn't want anyone to go home, and he seemed really jealous of Lockes 'connection' with the island.

So he was born on the island.

A - the fertility problem is a new one
B - he was conceived off the island and/or he and his mother were given treatmant and it worked
C - he's special

It could be C. Also in group C are Locke, Walt etc. IMO! Those that seem to have a connection with the island.

What I'm wondering is - if Ben were not protected by the fences, what would smokey think of him? If smokey killed Eko for not repenting his sins what the hell would it do to Ben? Here's hoping we see something like that!

bytesize

Sad Professor wrote:

Well either the pregnancy problems started after Ben was born...or...Ben was conceived off island. Juliet believed the problem was with those who conceived on the island, which is why Aaron and perhaps Alex were ok.

not true, juliet had said they thought it was anyone who was giving birth on the island, afaik they had originally thought it was when you conceived on the island but then ethan had been giving clare the injections so she would be able to give birth and survive.

when juliet had wanted to leave, they wouldnt let her cos she had not created a cure for this yet, as you saw when the woman died trying to give birth. then when she stayed they had finally come up with a cure, in which they gave to clare.

so either the writers made a doozy and messed up stories, as alex is alive and ben too, or the problem was only around since. either that or theres something we dont know yet.

**i cant remember weather alex was born before or after rossou got to the island.

badgerbadger

its possible that Ben's mother died and he survived

quickbeam

bytesize wrote:

not true, juliet had said they thought it was anyone who was giving birth on the island, afaik they had originally thought it was when you conceived on the island but then ethan had been giving clare the injections so she would be able to give birth and survive.

Juliet said this in her conversation with Jack, but I don't think we can assume that what she said here was the truth. I think it was part of the story she agreed with Ben. In fact, I don't think we can guarantee anything that the Others tell the Losties is truth at all - including Ben's comment about being born on the island.

bytesize wrote:

**i cant remember weather alex was born before or after rossou got to the island.

According to Danielle, she was pregnant when she arrived on the island and gave birth shortly afterwards.

ZiabR

badgerbadger wrote:

its possible that Ben's mother died and he survived

For some reason i don't think so. I think this problem with the pregnancy has only occurred over the past few years.

Faith

Big spoiler ahoy:

Apparently we'll get to meet Ben's mum & dad in 3x20. It's not specified whether it's in a flashback or not, but I presume it is. Source: http://www.spoilerfix.com/lost.php.

ZiabR

Faith wrote:

Big spoiler ahoy:

Apparently we'll get to meet Ben's mum & dad in 3x20. It's not specified whether it's in a flashback or not, but I presume it is. Source: http://www.spoilerfix.com/lost.php.

Nice Faith, cheers

Stuxnet

Faith wrote:

Big spoiler ahoy:

Apparently we'll get to meet Ben's mum & dad in 3x20. It's not specified whether it's in a flashback or not, but I presume it is. Source: http://www.spoilerfix.com/lost.php.

also this epidode is said

to bring new meaning to the term "born on the island"

Hyzepher

I'm not convinced that he was actually born on the island. In fact I'm still not sure who was on the island first - Dharma or the Others (if in fact they are two seperate groups).

I need to review teh episodes but has Ben actually said he was "born" on the island or just that he has been there all his life.

He might be referring to beign spiritually born?

ZiabR

Hyzepher wrote:

I'm not convinced that he was actually born on the island. In fact I'm still not sure who was on the island first - Dharma or the Others (if in fact they are two seperate groups).

I need to review teh episodes but has Ben actually said he was "born" on the island or just that he has been there all his life.

He might be referring to beign spiritually born?

Ben did say he was born on the Island. He also said that, " not many people can say that". I do believe Dharma were on the Island first and the built they tunnel system we know as the hatches. They were most likely experimenting on people and something went wrong.

I am not sure if the Others we know are directly connected to Dharma.

Mellor

bytesize wrote:

not true, juliet had said they thought it was anyone who was giving birth on the island, afaik they had originally thought it was when you conceived on the island but then ethan had been giving clare the injections so she would be able to give birth and survive.

when juliet had wanted to leave, they wouldnt let her cos she had not created a cure for this yet, as you saw when the woman died trying to give birth. then when she stayed they had finally come up with a cure, in which they gave to clare.

It was never explained on the show because it was assumed that people could follow it.
Juilette said to Ben that it happens at conception, we can assume this is true as it was only the others on the island at this time.

Juilette told Jack about the "cure" they used to give allow claire to give birth, this was to make it seam tht they were being friendly to the losties but secretive. But we know from the conversation with Ben that they actually put an implant in her to make her sick and so they could save the day.
I have seen alot of posts on the subject that appeared to mess this issue up.

ZiabR

I think Claire would have given birth to Aaron on the Island without any problems, even if the Others had not got involved. It only effects the woman and babies concieved on the Island.

Sad Professor

Mellor wrote:

It was never explained on the show because it was assumed that people could follow it.
Juilette said to Ben that it happens at conception, we can assume this is true as it was only the others on the island at this time.

Juilette told Jack about the "cure" they used to give allow claire to give birth, this was to make it seam tht they were being friendly to the losties but secretive. But we know from the conversation with Ben that they actually put an implant in her to make her sick and so they could save the day.
I have seen alot of posts on the subject that appeared to mess this issue up.

Agreed but I don't think the implant was specifically to make her sick. They couldn't have planned all that so far in advance. I think it monitored her during the pregnancy and then they were able to make further use of it to help integrate Juliet in with the lostaways. But I don't think making Claire sick was it's original purpose.

ZiabR

Sad Professor wrote:

Agreed but I don't think the implant was specifically to make her sick. They couldn't have planned all that so far in advance. I think it monitored her during the pregnancy and then they were able to make further use of it to help integrate Juliet in with the lostaways. But I don't think making Claire sick was it's original purpose.

Possibily but i dont think claire needed help in the first place. She concieved off the island.

Sad Professor

Yeah but by monitoring her they could discover why she's ok and possibly discover a cure. At the very least Claire probably proved Juliet's theory that the problem starts at conception.

ZiabR

Aye mate true, excuse my momentary brain fart.

Killaqueen!!!

Wek *know* that Claire had an implant inserted in her. But what does this mean? What sort of implant allows them to monitor her if that is the case? I know I'm very picky but do the Others have that sort of technology?

It is a likely explanation though, because I don't think the others would have planned the..eh...plan that long ago, just so that they had an excuse to get one of their people to seem like they are helping the Losties.

timisaprick

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

Also we don't know if Ben was telling the truth but I think he was because he's the leader (bar, perhaps Jacob) so it would make sense, he doesn't want anyone to go home, and he seemed really jealous of Lockes 'connection' with the island.

So he was born on the island.

A - the fertility problem is a new one
B - he was conceived off the island and/or he and his mother were given treatmant and it worked
C - he's special

It could be C. Also in group C are Locke, Walt etc. IMO! Those that seem to have a connection with the island.

What I'm wondering is - if Ben were not protected by the fences, what would smokey think of him? If smokey killed Eko for not repenting his sins what the hell would it do to Ben? Here's hoping we see something like that!

What if smokey is god? and all this on the island is just purgatory thats my bet

ZiabR

timisaprick wrote:

What if smokey is god? and all this on the island is just purgatory thats my bet

Purgatory has been mentioned before many many times and the writers have replied by saying, NO it is not purgatory.

MOH

Sad Professor wrote:

Yeah but by monitoring her they could discover why she's ok and possibly discover a cure. At the very least Claire probably proved Juliet's theory that the problem starts at conception.

Indeed. And if the Others now somehow know that Sun is pregnant, that would explaining the timing of Juliet 'infiltrating' the camp. She could possibly get more data from Sun since she's at an earlier stage of pregnancy.

Also, given that Sun's fake kidnapping has been mentioned a couple of times recently, I wouldn't be surprised if it happens for real when the Others return 'in a week', possibly either with Juliet's help, or they'll 'kidnap' Juliet at the same time.

ZiabR

MOH wrote:

Indeed. And if the Others now somehow know that Sun is pregnant, that would explaining the timing of Juliet 'infiltrating' the camp. She could possibly get more data from Sun since she's at an earlier stage of pregnancy.

Also, given that Sun's fake kidnapping has been mentioned a couple of times recently, I wouldn't be surprised if it happens for real when the Others return 'in a week', possibly either with Juliet's help, or they'll 'kidnap' Juliet at the same time.

What makes you think, they would need to kidnap Juliet?

MOH

logik wrote:

What makes you think, they would need to kidnap Juliet?

I don't think they'd need to, I think she's on their side.

But I think everyone's suspicious of her anyway now. If the Others did take Sun then
- Juliet can stay, and pretend she knows nothing about it, but everyone will believe she had something to do with it;
- she can leave with them, in which case nobody, including Jack, will ever trust her again;
- she can appear to be taken against her will (possibly appear to even try to defend Sun), which might gain her a bit more trust among the Losties camp, depending on how convincing it was, they might need to hurt her a bit.

It's the only way she can get back to the Others without burning her bridges with Jack.

jArgHA

MOH wrote:

I don't think they'd need to, I think she's on their side.

But I think everyone's suspicious of her anyway now. If the Others did take Sun then
- Juliet can stay, and pretend she knows nothing about it, but everyone will believe she had something to do with it;
- she can leave with them, in which case nobody, including Jack, will ever trust her again;
- she can appear to be taken against her will (possibly appear to even try to defend Sun), which might gain her a bit more trust among the Losties camp, depending on how convincing it was, they might need to hurt her a bit.

It's the only way she can get back to the Others without burning her bridges with Jack.

I am 99% sure that in an upcoming episode Juliet will show that she is siding with the Losties. My bet is that there will be a build up in which we are led to believe that Juliet is helping Ben in something nasty (such as kidnapping Sun), but at the very end there will be a turn-around and she will double-cross Ben.

ZiabR

jArgHA wrote:

I am 99% sure that in an upcoming episode Juliet will show that she is siding with the Losties. My bet is that there will be a build up in which we are led to believe that Juliet is helping Ben in something nasty (such as kidnapping Sun), but at the very end there will be a turn-around and she will double-cross Ben.

Yup i thought this since Ep 16. She will turn out to work with the losties and will cross Ben. I mean he has been evil and an ass too her.

Mellor

Sad Professor wrote:

Agreed but I don't think the implant was specifically to make her sick. They couldn't have planned all that so far in advance. I think it monitored her during the pregnancy and then they were able to make further use of it to help integrate Juliet in with the lostaways. But I don't think making Claire sick was it's original purpose.

No, they said this is what it was for, specificly.
Ben said it to juilette, something along the lines of

We've activated the implant in Clair, she should be symptomatic in the next 40 hours

Killaqueen!!!

Mellor wrote:

No, they said this is what it was for, specificly.
Ben said it to juilette, something along the lines of

I still find it hard to believe that they planned this so far back...it doesn't really make sense.

Sad Professor

I think the key word is "symptomatic". Perhaps her sickness was an after-effect of the implant's activation, i.e. she would start showing symptoms of whatever the implant was doing. Maybe it still was designed to make her sick but I don't think Ben knew all along he was going to use it to help Juliet.

Didn't Ethan install the implant at the Staff? Perhaps Juliet was telling the truth about him working on his own, which might explain why the implant was never used before now. Alex seemed to think he was going to kill Claire.

ZiabR

Sad Professor wrote:

I think the key word is "symptomatic". Perhaps her sickness was an after-effect of the implant's activation, i.e. she would start showing symptoms of whatever the implant was doing. Maybe it still was designed to make her sick but I don't think Ben knew all along he was going to use it to help Juliet.

Didn't Ethan install the implant at the Staff? Perhaps Juliet was telling the truth about him working on his own, which might explain why the implant was never used before now. Alex seemed to think he was going to kill Claire.

Nah Ben had to have known about the implant from the word go. He was most likely the one that ordered it to be implanted in the first place. After all we have seen of Ben we still don't know how he thinks and he surprises us over and over.

Mellor

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

I still find it hard to believe that they planned this so far back...it doesn't really make sense.

It was probably only a month or two in Island time, not that hard to imagine.

I think the key word is "symptomatic". Perhaps her sickness was an after-effect of the implant's activation, i.e. she would start showing symptoms of whatever the implant was doing.

the implant was doing nothing for two months until it was activated.


im sure that they did other tests on her when they took her, but the implant was to make sure sick, they may not have know who was going to be the hero. as juilette only found out the night before, it worked out that way due to jack, if a different other got close to a lostie, im sure they would of been sent

oleras

What was the topic again ? oh yeah.......... Ben born on the island?

Yes, 4th generation pirate if you ask me !! The Black Rock has to have some other part to play in this. Then again, i would like to see him with his shoes and socks off, count his toes......

Killaqueen!!!

Claire escaped from the Others though...

If they put an implant in her this must mean that they planned to let her go? Or they knew that she would escape at some stage?...

Sinfonia

oleras wrote:

What was the topic again ? oh yeah.......... Ben born on the island?

Yes, 4th generation pirate if you ask me !! The Black Rock has to have some other part to play in this. Then again, i would like to see him with his shoes and socks off, count his toes......

Was he barefoot when he got caught by Rousseau?
Was he barefoot when he was on the Pala Ferry?
Can't remember

ZiabR

oleras wrote:

What was the topic again ? oh yeah.......... Ben born on the island?

Yes, 4th generation pirate if you ask me !! The Black Rock has to have some other part to play in this. Then again, i would like to see him with his shoes and socks off, count his toes......

I have been saying for awhile now that we have forgotten too early about the Black Rock. This will have another part to play and may reveal some answers as to the origin of the Others.

upmeath

logik wrote:

I have been saying for awhile now that we have forgotten too early about the Black Rock. This will have another part to play and may reveal some answers as to the origin of the Others.

The rock with the hole in it or the dynamite-holding ship?

I was just thinking last week, what happened to the cabin of the plane, I know the pilot was abducted by the monster but surely the black box and the cabin are still out there in the jungle and we haven't seen them in 2 and a bit seasons...

darrenh

SumGuy wrote:

Was he barefoot when he got caught by Rousseau?
Was he barefoot when he was on the Pala Ferry?
Can't remember

Esau was the firstborn. His brother Jacob was born immediately afterwards, and was grasping Esau's heel. His name, Ya'akov (יעקב), derives from the Hebrew root "עקב," "heel." Commentators explain that Jacob was trying to hold Esau back from being the firstborn, and in that way claim the Abrahamic legacy for his own self. According to the text, Jacob was favoured by his mother, while Esau was favoured by his father.

ZiabR

upmeath wrote:

The rock with the hole in it or the dynamite-holding ship?

I was just thinking last week, what happened to the cabin of the plane, I know the pilot was abducted by the monster but surely the black box and the cabin are still out there in the jungle and we haven't seen them in 2 and a bit seasons...

I mean the ship that had the skeletons and the dynamite. As for the cockpit of the plane, i presume it is still where the losties left it.

fillefatale

logik wrote:

Yeah mate, as my mate the Professor has said . The women that become pregnant while on the Island died, but Claire/Rousseu were pregnant before they got to the Island.

Hold on a second, is Sun not pregnant with Jin's child? I'm assuming they concieved it on the island..?

ZiabR

fillefatale wrote:

Hold on a second, is Sun not pregnant with Jin's child? I'm assuming they concieved it on the island..?

Yes Sun is pregnant with Jin's baby, they did concieve it on the island also, but it most likely means Sun will die now.

Mellor

logik wrote:

Yes Sun is pregnant with Jin's baby, they did concieve it on the island also, but it most likely means Sun will die now.

or abort it

ZiabR

Mellor wrote:

or abort it

They have wanted a baby for so so long now, and were under the illusion that they would never have one. I can't see them aborting it now, not after longing for it for so long.

tosh_thedude

Is'nt Ben & Rousseu the parents of Alex, So If Ben was Born on the Island, That means Rousseu and Ben made boom boom on the Island? Unless they went on Holiday and Alex was concieved there. Oh, its a mess!

ZiabR

tosh_thedude wrote:

Is'nt Ben & Rousseu the parents of Alex, So If Ben was Born on the Island, That means Rousseu and Ben made boom boom on the Island? Unless they went on Holiday and Alex was concieved there. Oh, its a mess!

Ben is not Alex's biological father. The Others stole Alex from her mother and Ben passed Alex off as his own daughter.

I mean think about it. If Alex found out that her real mother was out there in the jungle for 16 years you not think she would go and look for her mother. Ben didn't want that to happen so lied and said he was her father. He prob made up some crappy story about her mother and Alex believed it all. And why wouldn't she.