[Eve] How is EVE better than WOW?

odonnell

Guys

Hi. I am a WOW'er looking to switch to EVE.

Ive been reading through a few of the posts here, and after having sampled EVE on a free ticket - I was left a little unsatisfied but am wondering if theres more to it than I saw. I didn't think I had fully managed to explore the game on the free ticket though I did get the feeling that, much the same as wow, EVE would be an endless grind once past the initial starting out phase. I want someone to tell me different really.

Im an experienced WOW'er and am beginning to consider cancelling my account once and for all, as its more or less a habitual thing now, rather than playing for fun. The grind has set in and I see no benefit or fun in grinding out 5000g for epic flyer, or in raiding for better gear (you only need better gear if youre getting your kicks from PVP anyway), etc and so on!

Now, in reading a few threads and having sampled EVE on a trial basis - I would like it straight from the horses mouth and from some of you guys who have possibly played both, where does EVE differ from WOW? Heres the real question i think: Does it turn into a grind, or can it remain fun?

In my trial i managed to learn abilities etc, managed to own a few ships (which i very quickly managed to get blown up when i thought i could handle a battle or two) and was making decent headway and it looked ok from that perspective - the carrot of eventually having a huge battleship etc was quite tantalising - but, isnt this sorta like wow where thats only really realistic to the hardened EVE'ers, like being in a raiding guild in WOW? What of the little people like myself who wont know anyone in game, and will probably end up being solo most of the time?

Many thanks for any response...

Kiith

I'm not the most experience Eve player by any means, but ill try answer a few of your questions.

odonnell wrote:

Guys
Hi. Ive been reading through a few of the posts here, and after having sampled EVE on a free ticket - I was left a little unsatisfied. I didnt get the feeling I had fully managed to explore the game on the free ticket though I did get the feeling that, much the same as wow, EVE would be an endless grind once past the initial starting out phase. I want someone to tell me different really.

I would say that the 'grind' in Eve is far more enjoyable, if only because there are far more things to do in it. Mining, Hauling, Mission running, PvP etc...Its a far larger game. Its also a game run by players, which is, in my opinion, why it will always be the most diverse and unpredictable MMO available.

odonnell wrote:

Guys
Now, in reading a few threads and having sampled EVE on a trial basis - I would like it straight from the horses mouth and from some of you guys who have possibly played both, where does EVE differ from WOW? Heres the real question i think: Does it turn into a grind, or can it remain fun?

Every MMO will have some grinding. But as i said, i find the Eve grind much less depressing. As for other differences...

1. It can be VERY unforgiving (which is good imo). In Wow, you die and run back to your corpse. In Eve, you lose your ship (god only knows how much it cost you), and if you get podkilled, you lose all your precious implants.

2. Player controlled. The Devs have very little interaction with the ongoing actions in the game. They watch, and improve (and cheat from time to time :rolleyes: ), but its a universe that is controlled by us (or by BoB at least)

3. Eve is less centered on 'Loot' and 'Epix'. You dont have to run Eve's version of Karazhan 20 times to get a good ship.

Now dont get me wrong, i love Warcraft. It was, and will always be, a favourite of mine. But I find it gets boring once you've gotten to 70 (i'm bored at 64 )

odonnell wrote:

Guys
In my trial i managed to learn abilities etc, managed to own a few ships (which i very quickly managed to get blown up when i thought i could handle a battle or two) and was making decent headway and it looked ok from that perspective - the carrot of eventually having a huge battleship etc was quite tantalising - but, isnt this sorta like wow where thats only really realistic to the hardened EVE'ers, like being in a raiding guild in WOW? What of the little people like myself who wont know anyone in game, and will probably end up being solo most of the time?

Getting a battleship isnt hard. If i remember right, i could fly a battleship after about 2 months (may have been longer, as it was ages ago). The only thing that stopped me was i didnt have the money. Had i stayed, i could have got the money in a week or two, tops.

As for soloing, i would say its the same as any MMO, where to get very far youn would need a group of players. You can still do missions, mining, hauling, and some solo Pvp, but it becomes far more effective (Especially the mining and PvP) when your in a group.

As for getting ships blown up, its probably the best thing that can happen to you (if only just once), especially in PvP i've heard. I personally lost my first nice ship, a Thorax which cost me 8mill, to a single drone in the first level2 mission i ever did. It webbed(?) me so i couldnt warp away, and then circled me from about 50m, slowly eating away at my health, with my rails unable to hit him at all...longest 5 minutes of my life i tell ya

R0ot

Eve > WoW

Eve is one of those games that takes a little bit of thinking. Not just run and gun all the time. As already said above, you can mine, mission, pvp or trade and sell stuff. I know a few lads that love exploiting the market to get a few extra million or billion :eek: . Tbh i hated missioning, did it for about a month then went to 0.0 and started having fun. Now im flying recons. Carrier here i come

odonnell

Hey, thanks for posting...

I see your point in that its not so much based on doing 20 runs of an inc (and thats IF you have some healer buddies on). So, its basically down to your own tactic on how you play the game rather than utilising one of maybe three avenues to upgrade your char as per WOW....? Which is a nice prospect. It has the means to hold interest for far longer if thats the case.

I just did a /played on my main in wow, and it hit me with a frightening number. So i thought about it, and whilst yes, i do have a life, I could only remember a few ocassions where I was playing the game for fun and enjoyment. Most of the rest of the time was spent trying to find something fun in it.

I may give it another trial, and contact you guys on irish channel when playing. Its possible i got put off by not really making too much headway through not really knowing the lay of the land and what to do next so to speak. If it takes away the grinding blues of wow, then hey.... fair play.

Did you stick with EVE in the end Kilth?

Cheers R0ot....im learning that its possibly a hindrance to be a mission runner... and you can pretty much spec yourself out for any sort of attitude yeah?

odonnell

ok so thats another free trial gotten and the client DL'ing right this minute. Might aswell give it a blast sure...it looks like too much fun. Hopefully catch you in irish chan.

BrokenArrows

can you get a free trial again on the same account

tba

The thing with eve is the level grind is always running, without you playing, hence the equipment grind is the only thing left, and then it is a matter of trading, fighting or mining, meaning the smaller chance of boredom.

WOW has the lvl 70 plateau eve has a skill plateau but dammit if anybody has ever reached it.

grimloch

The downside to this is that you'll never reach the same level as the guys who have been playing longer than you.

odonnell

BrokenArrows wrote:

can you get a free trial again on the same account

dont thinkso...

Maddzy

grimloch wrote:

The downside to this is that you'll never reach the same level as the guys who have been playing longer than you.

I don't agree with this. Skill points are not everything in Eve, its how you fit and fly your ship, and how well you can trick your opponent. My character was born in 2005 and I've taken down more then one 2003 character on my own.

odonnell:
Eve really only has one grind, and thats money. Its a capitalist game and the real goal in Eve is to become the richest character with the most territory. This is incredibly difficult to do.

However the majority of people don't play Eve to achieve this goal, they play for the fun. PvP! Mining and missioning will get you the few bucks you need to fit out a cheap pvp ship, then off you go. Get some buddies and you have a gank squad. This is where the real fun is. Pick a fight, and only fly what you can afford to lose, then if you die, who cares?

I played the trial on WoW and, although I recognized the allure of the game, and had some good fun with my guild, I found it hard to get into the game. It all seemed like non-stop slash, slash, slash. I was surrounded by the grind. In Eve, you're not surrounded, you don't HAVE to grind. As long as you have a ship and some friends you can have a lot of fun.

Mantel

grimloch wrote:

The downside to this is that you'll never reach the same level as the guys who have been playing longer than you.

I wouldn't say so. You won't be at the same level in as many area's as guys who've been playing longer but if you specialise you can reach the same skill level as anyone else. The only problem then is applying your skills Eve can be alot about what you know instead of what your skills are.

odonnell
What of the little people like myself who wont know anyone in game, and will probably end up being solo most of the time?

That's why you join a corp you get to meet people and if the corp is anyway decent you'll usually end up doing some activites together. You'll get to know people once you join a corp and lets face it, who wants to be in the newb corp with all the spam in the corp chat channel, you can join the help channel if you want a torrent of mindless drivel.

grimloch

Mantel wrote:

I wouldn't say so. You won't be at the same level in as many area's as guys who've been playing longer but if you specialise you can reach the same skill level as anyone else. The only problem then is applying your skills Eve can be alot about what you know instead of what your skills are.

But it's not like WOW where you can poopsock your way up to level 60 in a matter of days.

Frankiestylee

What makes Eve great is that everything is to do with real people. Simple as that. People are unpredictable at times and therefore so is the game. You can trick people, charm people, aggro people, it's all wonderful.

Also... there is nowhere where you're truly safe from pvp, which is awesome. You don't have to "accept" a pvp encounter, it just happens. This is great. Yay.

jaggeh

the most important thing in eve is there is very little pigeon holing.

there are FOTM setups for ships, but there is always a counter.

the game is very open ended, i can fly frigates, assault frigates, cruisers, assault cruisers, destroyers, battlecruisers, battleships, industrial ships, mining barges and covert ops. so if i ever get bored in a role all i need do is switch ships.

Plus graphically eve trounces wow.

odonnell

ok, so taking all your brilliant responses on board (cheers by the way, theyve sold me on EVE), what would be your next few sessions? In WOW, id set about getting my new alt twinked out, bags, cash, armour etc...and then id set about lvling as quickly as possible. In EVE i dont have a level 70 warlock holding my hand, i dont have explored maps of all areas, and I dont know where the good skinning is had

in EVE, Ive got a wee ship, im orbitting a station in some location somewhere sometime some place....with look, another person just over by that....thing! And to make matters worse, my avatar has a real fashion problem and his armour isnt even enchanted!

So, im floating in space and Im not really, REALLY interested in carrying out the missions. Ive started researching new ummmm...abilities? Skills? What now?

Start mining for some easy cash if my guess is correct. And with my wow head on, and as someone said before me - gather up some resources enough to kit out with a decent ship or three.... find someone to help me on weapon choice etc (irish channel was very unresponsive when i was on last night!), and then find a corp (guild)?

Sound about right?

odonnell

jaggeh wrote:

the most important thing in eve is there is very little pigeon holing.

there are FOTM setups for ships, but there is always a counter.

the game is very open ended, i can fly frigates, assault frigates, cruisers, assault cruisers, destroyers, battlecruisers, battleships, industrial ships, mining barges and covert ops. so if i ever get bored in a role all i need do is switch ships.

Plus graphically eve trounces wow.

ah yes i was surprised by the graphics considering the TINY download.

Maddzy

As a new player your best thing to do is probably explore your options while you get up some cash. Mess around with some cheap ship setups and see which one you like. If you are considering PvP or missions get up your weapon skills. Different races have different weapon specialities, Amarr = Energy, Minmatar = Projectiles, Gallente = Blasters, Caldari = Missiles. However you can mix it around and use whatever you like best.

The Irish channel is less active now probably cause its coming up to exams time in real life, and alot of the corps people in Irish chan are in are at war, so they are likely concentrating on their fleet commander's instructions and not watching chat. But when it picks up its a laugh and people are helpful.

tba

I suggest you join an empire corp, they will help you a great deal and reduce the start game isk grind. atm 1 million isk is aclot to you but a pittance to older players, they will help because they want you in their corp, but you can always leave.

Frankiestylee

If you want to get involved in the whole storyline of the game you can start doing missions and such stuff. You don't have to now, cause I've been playing for maybe two months or more and I haven't touched the storyline until last night... I accidentally fell upon it while clearing out one of my hangers.

The good thing about missions is they're normally suited to your skill level, if you do some lvl 1s you know you're not going to have to take down a load of battleships for example.

odonnell

yeah i may do a few missions to get some quick cash about me, but only once i get to the same system as the boards corp - thing is 11 jumps away dammit....(sticking to 1.0-0.5 space of course).

Ive not spent a great deal of time on the game so far actually due to ...well... real life! But this time around im finding it far easier to get my head around, to get from place to place etc. Maybe some of my last trial period did sink in after all. Still lots i dont know though - scary the amount of content.

R0ot

odonnell wrote:

scary the amount of content.

You said it... :eek:

odonnell

heh yeah, but at least its not so offputting, or overwhelming now. Ive stuck my app into boards corp so hopefully thatll get things going. i can see my poor wow chars taking a long rest here.

R0ot

Just make sure you join the "irish" channel

EDIT: And add your game name to the list in this forum

zekiel

As an x wow & eve junkie I have to say eve still holds a strong place in my heart were as wow leaves a bitter taste.

Basically after endless days of playing wow I got to a stage were it was in my mind "why am I doing all this crap grinding!!, these raids are so repetitive!! same **** different day!"

With eve every day is different, totally unpredictable as to what will happen the next evening you play it. The game is constantly evolving and there is always something new to try.

odonnell

ah thats the answer i hoped for too i have to say. everytime i log onto WOW these days im thinking its more out of habit than anything else and sure enough, every time im logging off within a little while thinking this is completely pointless. If it isnt even fun anymore then.....WHY?

Think ill just cancel my wow account and find some way to justify the time spent on it, and let got of my fairly decent character.

EVE is lookin good, but ill tell you...im gonna need some hand-holding before i get really into it, cos after watching one of the lads pvp vids on another thread... it looks completely alien to me and frightening. pvp in wow is easy enough...you see a guy, kill him - you know what all your icons do, and all their short cut keys....

but EVE? ouch...scary.

kencleary

Yeah just looking at the market in EVE can be very daunting - the sheer array of ships, weaponry and skills there is intimidating and it'll be a while before you able to debate the nuances of blasters Vs autocannons etc but once you get the hang of it the possibilities are endless.

I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet but the most effective thing you can do in your first weeks in EVE is to start training up your learning skills. Each character attribute - Perception, Memory etc has a related learning skill and each level in that skill gives you +1 to the character attribute. This lowers the time you spend on training up other skills so the earlier you do it in your EVE career the more benefit you'll get out of it.

It's very boring but very much worth it.

Say hello to me in Boards.ie Corp Chat when you're accepted! - DrVomact

Mantel

kencleary wrote:

I don't think anyone has mentioned it yet but the most effective thing you can do in your first weeks in EVE is to start training up your learning skills. Each character attribute - Perception, Memory etc has a related learning skill and each level in that skill gives you +1 to the character attribute. This lowers the time you spend on training up other skills so the earlier you do it in your EVE career the more benefit you'll get out of it.

It's very boring but very much worth it.

Ah, the learning skills grind. It can take awhile but in the long run it is worth it. You just have to balance training the skills with what you eventually want to do without going numb from bordom. The best way is to get in a corp (which your doing, yay!) and look at whatever you canand ask questions about everything. You'll get a better idea of what you want to do first, second and third in Eve

Evemon ( http://evemon.battleclinic.com/ ) is a good tool for planning skills and getting an idea how long things will take, it even suggests some of the basic learning skills but the character sheet on www.eve-online.com it uses is down right now

Renesco

WoW > EvE

i would rather fly around on a dragon and have a +5 vs Orc Sword than fiddle with stupid spaceships tbh, eve is not where the kool people are

Discuss...

Maddzy

Renesco wrote:

WoW > EvE

i would rather fly around on a dragon and have a +5 vs Orc Sword than fiddle with stupid spaceships tbh, eve is not where the kool people are

Discuss...

You forgot to mention Autopilot, Multiplayer Screensaver and Spreadsheet Online lololol

D

odonnell wrote:

Would EVE be an endless grind once past the initial starting out phase. I want someone to tell me different really.

For the most part no. Training up the basics isn't too bad. But once you get your basic skills and start on the more advanced you will notice a grind. However, once this happens train up your learning skills. Someone who ran the numbers said that all learning skills to 4 and skills times will be reduced by 56%. Once you have these done most of the advanced skills will fly by. After this phase the next time you will notice the grind is for finishing skills to level 5 especially large guns and definitely <racial> Battleships level 5. From then on the heavy industry skills and the high level capitol ship skill will drag for getting them to level 5.

However a lot of people cross train, as in they get decent in a racial ship and switch to a different races' ships as it will take minimum time to cross-train.

odonnell wrote:

Now, in reading a few threads and having sampled EVE on a trial basis - I would like it straight from the horses mouth and from some of you guys who have possibly played both, where does EVE differ from WOW? Heres the real question i think: Does it turn into a grind, or can it remain fun?

I have played both wow and eve. Now I will assume that you have several characters and you now the amount of time it take to get level 20, 40, 60 & 70. Eve is a slow burn game whereas I have heard of people levelling to 70 in about a week. This won't happen in eve. A year in and you won't be flying battle ships well. Notice I said 'well', you can hop in a battleship with minimum skills in less than a month if you want. I am a year playing Eve and I have only noticed the game grinding before I got my learning skills (about 8 months ago), since then it hasn't really grinded (or I haven't noticed because of the fun factor)

odonnell wrote:

the carrot of eventually having a huge battleship etc was quite tantalising - but, isnt this sorta like wow where thats only really realistic to the hardened EVE'ers, like being in a raiding guild in WOW? What of the little people like myself who wont know anyone in game, and will probably end up being solo most of the time?

To be honest it is easy to make money in Eve, when I started out I always had too much isk (gold) and not enough skills. You will be able to afford a battle ship after a month if you save. The whole basis of eve is do a mission and the money you make will pay for your ship. Unfortunately inflation is a problem in Eve, a lot off people save and save for the expensive stuff instead of taking basic equipment and having fun. Don't get me wrong faction/officer gear (rare/epic) can make a huge difference but one pimped battleship can get taken down my a small gang of frigates. (Noticeable exception are if you're Farjung in a Vindicator with officer mods and full skills) But these types are few and far between. You get diminishing returns at the high level of equipment although on capitol ships they do make a difference.

So with the minimum effort and a brain in your head (and some practice) you can make yourself combat ready and effective) Or you can spend some time and pimp out you ships. Currently myself and a friend are doing level 4 missions. With two of us we fly through them and 1 mission can give of pimped out cruisers or assault ships to go pvping in.

As for lots of solo. There will be loads of corps looking for (fresh meat) new recruits. eventually you will see cans advertising corps, or browse through the recruitment forum. If you want to stay solo that is no problem but with minimum effort you can get in a corp.

To be honest I find the casual pvp easier to find in wow, by that I mean a decent fight, maybe a group of your (3) attacking another faction group that you meet in a contested area. That said I find pvp in eve more rewarding, not so depended on your level or what spec you are and the fights have a more strategic edge. Don't get me wrong wow has got some strategy that I love.
In eve you might get a small group or go solo and look for a fight and end up coming into a 20 man gate camp and there is nothing you can do. But that is realistic. Also the fact that when fighting your gear is on the line that extra tension is there. Also when you kill the enemy you know that they have lost their stuff and it is now yours!

It is a different game to wow, and can be frustrating, and by frustrating I mean trying to hand in quests in stranglethorn when a group of 70s are camping the quest givers all day long.

Never fly anything you aren't prepared to loose. In fact always fit pvp ships with the mentality that you are going to get blobbed and die.

All I can say is give Eve 3 months and then decide. There is nothing wrong with getting bored with it, setting a long skill and coming back later.

Hope this post was helpful and legible.

R0ot

D wrote:

Never fly anything you aren't prepared to loose. In fact always fit pvp ships with the mentality that you are going to get blobbed and die.

Quote for the win! Basic requisite, if by losing this ship in pvp you will cripple yourself into a less effective ship or not be able to make isk anymore then DO NOT FLY IT. Nice post D