Coming out at work.

Boston

This has been playing on my mind lately (last few hours) as I'm set to soon move out of undergraduate education and into something more formal. I'm wondering if, when and how I should approach this topic. I never liked the whole coming out thing as I usually make a complete arse of the process.

So is there a need to bring sexuality into the work place? I'd like to say no, but from a practical point of view you get to know people very well so it's hard keeping out in addition I can't say I've ever been overly discrete when I have been going out with another guy, so it may just be better getting it out there at the start.

karen3212

Not sure if this will help, but I'd say some people will guess, most of the people I've worked with never formally came out, but they did let those in their team know by the things they said that they were gay. I'd say dropping a few hints here and there lets people know if you want, but I don't see why anyone would have to announce they were gay or straight, as you say they will find out when you go out anyway.

Beruthiel

Just be yourself Joe.
I remember joining a new company with a bunch of others, we all started at the same time so none of us knew anyone.
One chap was full of life and would tell us all kinds stuff, like he just bought a house with his fella. In other words, if the conversation requires it, just drop it in. No need for any kind of declarations. Allow people to take you as you are.

qwertyphobia

Yeah I don't think the formal announcment works best. Just don't lie and hide it in conversations.

There are going to be questions asked like what did you do over the weekend? or what pub you drink in? are you in a relationship? Just answer them in a straight forward way and let it come out naturaly. That way you arent making any big deal over it.

thats my advice anyway

imonboards

Have to agree with the lads, is being 'GAY' the biggest thing about you ?

Best bet is like they say just drop it in conversation when you feel comfortable and let it stand, and be natural.

It's only a big a deal as you make of it.

Stark

I've been thinking about this question myself lately. Not because it's anyone's business really, but because people tend to know about these things anyway. At the moment, I'm out to a few people, but I know that there are quite a few others who know about me but I don't know exactly who those people are. I just find out every now and again and think "wow, how did he know". At least when you tell people, then that's a measure of certainty that you have.

yellowdoor

I agree, just talk about your ordinary life as it happens, and you will be quite surprised how it just flows along in the conversation.

PeakOutput

i used to work for a large multinational and der was an older guy there who wore a wedding ring cant remember how it came up in conversation but i asked about his wife and he broke his ****e laughing i didnt understand it until the rest of the lunch table explained it was a present from his male partner...........i honestly dont think people care "in this day and age" if it comes up in conversation it comes up in conversation if it doesnt it doesnt

Boston

Stark wrote:

I've been thinking about this question myself lately. Not because it's anyone's business really, but because people tend to know about these things anyway. At the moment, I'm out to a few people, but I know that there are quite a few others who know about me but I don't know exactly who those people are. I just find out every now and again and think "wow, how did he know". At least when you tell people, then that's a measure of certainty that you have.

I think thats it, I'd like to know who knew and get an idea of the reaction. I'm potentially going to be working with some great people next year (I've already met afew) and I'd just be heartbroken if it was a problem.

imonboards: It is something about me, which I've to be aware of and take into account.

yellowdoor: Personal private life stuff is not something I talk about often. I guess it will be more of a factor if / when I got out with another guy.

imonboards

Boston wrote:

imonboards: It is something about me, which I've to be aware of and take into account.

True - same as all of us. But my point being is it's not the most important quality about you in regards to work. Honesty, humility, communications, great work ethos - are by far the bigger aspects of your 'working life' than your sexuality, and therefore I'd rather build up a rapour with my co-workers on my skills which are more valuable in the working envrionment first, rather than..


I'd hate for people to think of me at work as

"my name is ****, I'm gay, have a boyfriend, go clubbing at the weekend, oh and I do the accounts here"


I'd rather prefer people to know me as

'Im ****, hard working, friendly, approachable, honest, reliable and oh and by the way gay"


Sexuality is a big part of you, me, us.... but unless your planning on humping everything at work, why make it the 'prime' factor about you.

Let them know you for your other strenghts and qualitys, and if your sexuality is ever raised - just be honest then.

r3nu4l

Yeah, I've worked with a few gay guys over the past couple of years and it was never something they made a big deal of. One guy was screamingly obvious the other guy less so, to the extent that some people never knew. I only knew because I worked with him a lot and got to know him, so we got chatting about what we did at weekends and the usual mullarkey. When he said him and his boyfriend went shopping for plants for the garden I took that as a hint

The way I look at it is, you don't see me going into a new job and saying to everyone, "by the way, just in case you don't know, I'm straight!" so I wouldn't expect a gay guy to come over and tell me he's gay. If he did, I wouldn't be fussed about it but I wouldn't feel that he had to tell me. Same goes for gay women too.

Get to know your colleagues first and take your time. The day of the big declaration "I'm the only gay in the village!" are over (I hope). It shouldn't be a big deal at all.

Boston

imonboards wrote:

True - same as all of us. But my point being is it's not the most important quality about you in regards to work. Honesty, humility, communications, great work ethos - are by far the bigger aspects of your 'working life' than your sexuality, and therefore I'd rather build up a rapour with my co-workers on my skills which are more valuable in the working envrionment first, rather than..


I'd hate for people to think of me at work as

"my name is ****, I'm gay, have a boyfriend, go clubbing at the weekend, oh and I do the accounts here"


I'd rather prefer people to know me as

'Im ****, hard working, friendly, approachable, honest, reliable and oh and by the way gay"


Sexuality is a big part of you, me, us.... but unless your planning on humping everything at work, why make it the 'prime' factor about you.

Let them know you for your other strenghts and qualitys, and if your sexuality is ever raised - just be honest then.

You're reading a huge amount into my post that simply isn't there. Neither scenario you proposed is likely. I don't tell people my sexuality unless I'm having some form of deep conversation with them, which is not something I see as being likely. However It is possible to keep your private life and work life completely separate, or put another way isolate one group of people from some aspect of yourself. The decision I've to make basically is if I want to do that next year.

Icequeen

Why do you feel the need to come out in the first place? your private life is none of their business

you say:

I can't say I've ever been overly discrete when I have been going out with another guy, so it may just be better getting it out there at the start.

so it seems to me you just want to announce to the world "I am gay!!!! look at me, validate me!!!" and expect them all to give you all the attention then and tell you you're so brave for being so open. Well honey that won't happen. No-one, and I mean no-one will give a ****. Being gay is the new straight, it's so mundane at this point that everybody actually does have at least 10 gay friends and are related to at least 3 of them, come out if you want but don't expect any more reaction than "mehhh, so did anybody see Eastenders last night?", grow up, nobody cares anymore be gay but don't ruin a good job by irritating all your workmates by forcing your sexuallity down their throats. Every company now a days have policies to prevent sexualy discriminating so gay or sraight it won't matter, not one employee can ask and not one employee will even care because everybody has their own **** to deal with too. don't be such a child. Tell them if you want but I bet you won't get the reaction you (obviously) are looking for.

Stark

Icequeen wrote:

Why do you feel the need to come out in the first place? your private life is none of their business

People talk about their personal lives at work. It's not possible to have a 100% separation unless you want people to think you're rude. At the very least, people ask you how your weekend was when you come in on Monday morning. Coming back from vacation is usually a time when it's hard to avoid questions. Even if you avoid the common questions from the bulk of your co-workers, there'll still be the ones who you're closer with than most.

The rest of your post makes my brain hurt.

Boston

Icequeen wrote:

Why do you feel the need to come out in the first place? your private life is none of their business

you say:

I can't say I've ever been overly discrete when I have been going out with another guy, so it may just be better getting it out there at the start.

so it seems to me you just want to announce to the world "I am gay!!!!" and expect them all to give you all the attention then and tell you you're so brave for being so open.

So not discrete when going out with someone is the same as screaming it out to the world?

Well honey that won't happen. No-one, and I mean no-one will give a ****. Being gay is the new straight, it's so mundane at this point that everybody actually does have at least 10 gay friends and are related to at least 3 of them, come out if you want but don't expect any more reaction than "mehhh, so did anybody see Eastenders last night?", grow up, nobody cares anymore be gay but don't ruin a good job by irritating all your workmates by forcing your sexuallity down their throats.

I've been out in college for the last 3 years. I know far more about what is involved then you do. You claim "No one cares", but theres plenty of examples on this forum of very biggoted attitudes. I've experienced first hand how much some do care.

Did you gloss over my post when I said I'm unlikely to take either the approaches discribed by Imon? How on earth did you come to the conclusion i would pick box number three "shove it down their throats".

Every company now a days have policies to prevent sexualy discriminating

Not even remotely true.

so gay or sraight it won't matter, not one employee can ask and not one employee will even care because everybody has their own **** to deal with too.

Thats odd, I was asked by the dean of my faculty there recenty. He mustn't be with the program yet.

don't be such a child. Tell them if you want but I bet you won't get the reaction you (obviously) are looking for.

I honestly don't know which posts you're reading love, but they aint mine.

ixoy

In my company, a couple of people knew. Then came the Christmas dinner where you got to bring your partner and I did. Had never really brought it up beforehand (as most people hadn't) but there was no way I was going to hide him on a night like that.
Went perfectly well, everyone was friendly and noone outwardly batted an eyelid (of course they were shocked on the inside - they're all just great actors...).
Introduce him as a normal part of your life and don't try and shoe-horn it in. If the people are in any way decent, they'll respect you for it.

Icequeen

Firstly, just because you didn't get the answer you were looking for doesn't mean I'm wrong, IMO everybody else should have seen the little bit of drama you were trying to create too. I mean you don't even have the job and already you're looking for sympathy, it's not even like the people that work there have even had the chance to comment on your sexuality, they haven't even met you!!!! :rolleyes:

Boston wrote:

So not discrete when going out with someone is the same as screaming it out to the world?

Well yeah, "not descreet" = "Open" = "I don't care" = "Look at me" so yeah totally so if you're not descreet then by definition you are telling everybody ergo you are telling the world since "the world" by definition itself is everybody

Boston wrote:

I've been out in college for the last 3 years. I know far more about what is involved then you do. You claim "No one cares", but theres plenty of examples on this forum of very biggoted attitudes. I've experienced first hand how much some do care.

Thats a BIG ****ing assumption isn't it? Well I'm 34, I'm transsexual and I've been out since I was 4 years old and living as a girl since I was 12 so in retrospect your 3 years of "being out" I passed by the time I was 8 years old and trust me by the way, coming out as trans is a **** load harder than coming out as gay, so don't try to condesend to me I was out before your da was doing his leaving cert, hell by then I was living as a girl and I know alot more about biggots than you ever will.

Boston wrote:

Did you gloss over my post when I said I'm unlikely to take either the approaches discribed by Imon? How on earth did you come to the conclusion i would pick box number three "shove it down their throats".

No I didn't but did you gloss over your OP? Imon gave you answers to your OP which the crux of was " I'm wondering if, when and how I should approach this topic. " look at his answer in that context, i.e. the context of YOUR question ( which , by the way was basically, I want to tell them now, now, now or I'll scweam n I'l scweam n I'l scweam) Your problem is that you didn't get the replies you wanted so now you're just trying to back track so don't blame other posters. And I still say I'm right, all you really wanted to hear was "Ohhh you go girl" well tough titty this isn't a mutual admiraton society it's an advice board and sometimes what you get isn't what you want to hear but it's always pretty close to the mark.

Boston wrote:

Not even remotely true.

Well actually it's very true, besides from the fact that I transitioned in my job years ago and no **** came of it and as a matter of fact I was one of the first Irish people to do it and helped write up a proposal for fair treatment of TS people for my job, I also help out other TS with legal issues to do with employment and sometimes gay guys and girls ask me too and I haven't seen an anti gay policy in any job in about 10 years so considering you're still in school I think you're way out of you depth with this one.

Boston wrote:

Thats odd, I was asked by the dean of my faculty there recenty. He mustn't be with the program yet.

To discriminate against you or just to try to help? cause you seem closed off to me and are deans not meant to help? had it occured to you that maybe he knew and was just tryin to find out if there other ways he could help you socialise and maybe enrich your life? but I BET even though you claim to be out 3 years you still said "no, I'm not gay" to him?

Boston wrote:

I honestly don't know which posts you're reading love, but they aint mine.

Oh they are child

Stark

Icequeen wrote:

To discriminate against you or just to try to help? cause you seem closed off to me and are deans not meant to help? had it occured to you that maybe he knew and was just tryin to find out if there other ways he could help you socialise and maybe enrich your life? but I BET even though you claim to be out 3 years you still said "no, I'm not gay" to him?

But if he had let slip that he was gay, wouldn't it be like "Worship me. Worship me. Adore me. Validate me. I'm such a ****ing attention whore" by the thrash logic that you're coming out with?

Your diatribe has no place here. Don't come back.

Boston

Ixoy, see thats the approach I think I'll be taking. It really is how I came out in college as well. Nights out with friends I just did what hetrosexuals where doing.

Icequeen wrote:

, it's not even like the people that work there have even had the chance to comment on your sexuality, they haven't even met you!!!! :rolleyes:

Boston wrote:

I'm potentially going to be working with some great people next year (I've already met afew) and I'd just be heartbroken if it was a problem.

Whose post are you reading? Their clearly not mine, so no point in replying to them.

Rev Hellfire

I'm not sure there's an actual need to formally come 'out' in the work environment, most professional people keep a degree of separation between both their work and private lives. With the latter only getting divulged to those colleagues you end up having a closer working relationship too. Which from your posts seem to be what you're thinking anyway.

Nevyn

A work place can have all the policies they want but they will still not stop peoples reactions and then treating a person differntly and awkwardly afterwards.

I know several people who go through this not only with thier first job but with changing jobs.

They go from being out in every aspect of thier life to being not out in thier job where they spend on average 8 hours 5 days a week and have to start that process all over again becasue in Ireland we still assume that people are 'straight' which is frustrating.

Being gay or bi or having an alterante lifestyle ( it is called the broom closet for a damn good reason ) is not always easy to be free about and even if we are happy of ourselves and certainly not ashamed or hiding and there are often no outward signs.

Trans issues are for the most part a lot more visual.
While I will congratuate you on your journey Icequeen and what you have acomplished
Butyour journey is not that of Boston or other's who face this strugge.

damien

Never not been out at work, if I'm asked a question or having a conversation about whatever, I'll make mention of my "homosexual lifestyle choice" if it needs mentioning. I don't feel the need to "drop it into the conversation". Any normal conversation will see mention of a significant other or whatever from time to time. I won't avoid mentioning it, I think that would be dishonest to work colleagues if they are being open with you, though it depends on your own personal privacy level.

I seem to be the token gay at work and some people there have issues and some do not. Some guys are nervous around me, especially if I have a private meeting about some issue or other so sometimes I bring in another manager with me. They're not being homophobic or nasty, they're just not relaxed and I haven't an issue with that.

One person told me the day they started they were shown around by a fellow team member. "There's the gym, this is the phone system, that's the coffee area and that guy over at that desk is gay."

Thing is most people really don't care. Ireland is changing at long last.

You will however encounter some people who will make an issue of your sexuality either directly or indirectly but it's rare and the majority will probably not tolerate their behaviour.

Boston

damien.m wrote:

Never not been out at work, if I'm asked a question or having a conversation about whatever, I'll make mention of my "homosexual lifestyle choice" if it needs mentioning. I don't feel the need to "drop it into the conversation". Any normal conversation will see mention of a significant other or whatever from time to time. I won't avoid mentioning it, I think that would be dishonest to work colleagues if they are being open with you, though it depends on your own personal privacy level.

That in and of itself is a choice, and more or less the one I have to make. I tend not to get into conversations with people revolving around partners or who has a nice ass of whatever else. More often then not these days my sexuality is brought into focus by those around me who know already. I don't live a particularly alternative lifestyle either.

The last place I worked had two people who were out. Wasn't a problem with any of us; there wasn't any sniggering at the watercooler.
Saying that, lifestyle choices never came up in discussion in any serious way. We joked about the Antonello's obsession with Madonna, but in the same way I was slagged off for not drinking, Richard for climbing very big mountains etc.

All in all, it shouldn't be a problem and I would agree with the general sentiment of not announcing to the world that your gay, but not hiding it either. Boston, I've only met you once but you seemed grand. You shouldn't have any problems

Hmm_Messiah

I've never really understood what "out" means - as in where am i coming out from, and out as what etc. But I am more inclined towards Ixoy's way of seeing things, and Starks. But then .... like my bf collects me from the hotle carpark beside work as opposed to driving in .... but then its not so much about being "gay2 but just not so happy the way peopples lives seem so important in my workplace - am often told on a Monday where i was on the weekend, who I was seen with etc etc, it gets boring
and my real problem always with the gay tag is it seems to start defining you when in reality its maybe the least defining thing about me.

At the same time previously people have met boyfriends, but within a context, they had also met girlfriends, and it was more curiosity at what at the time was an eventul lifestyle more than anything else. I did bring one to a christmas party, when the end of it, but that was when a colleague asked me to, and rto some lunches with colleagues .

I find it strange these days because i am ina relationship, and for a change its entirey mnormal and routine, lacking in drama and anguish, (and addiction issues) and i find myself curtailling what i say in work - the girl across cfrom me frequently mentions here partner, and asks about my weekend etc, and its so strange not to say oh me and jeff whent to ___, or got no study done because Jeff was off work . And why don't i then say it ? Partly becuase int he past it just causes confusion ( eg this girl knows an ex gf of mine and it not sure its worth going there ), partly because there is harassment at a fairly high degree in my workplace anyways (as demonstrated by an egyptian employyee this week) and partly i sometimes like the privacy bit.

(A bigger issue is my sister announcing her wedding ! my bf almost went into shock when I mentioned it - his not out and sees it as a major dilemma. ...think i'm rambling now

I don't hide things as such in workplace or else where, he is mentioned often by me, b ut not assigned a role. If there was a direct question (eg you bringing some one to the social night ) I am not sure how i'd answer it - made easier by not wanting ever to socialise with 99% of the people.
n

Nevyn

Coming out refers to coming out of the closet.

The expression "being in the closet" has been used to describe keeping secret one's sexual behavior or orientation, most commonly homosexuality or bisexuality, but also including the gender identity of transgender and transsexual people. Being "in the closet" is more than being discreet or private, it is a "life-shaping pattern of concealment" where gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender individuals hide their sexuality/gender-identity in the most important areas of life, with family, friends, and at work. Individuals may marry or avoid certain jobs in order to avoid suspicion and exposure. Some will even claim to be heterosexual when asked directly. "It is the power of the closet to shape the core of an individual's life that has made homosexuality into a significant personal, social, and political drama in twentieth-century America". (Seidman 2003, p.25)

MicraBoy

While I don't consider myself out in work, all the colleagues I consider friends do actually know. This is probably only a couple of people these days since the others have left in the mean time.

I have a similar dilemma to Hmm_Messiah in that lots of people know about a former girlfriend who I was with for several years. In fact a lot of them met her. I find myself disinclined to complicate matters by talking about boyfriends.

When questions about what I did at the weekend come up I have found myself saying I was in "Hogans" as a euphemism for being in a gay bar. This isn't particularly because I am worried about being out, its just I don't feel like mentioning it at the coffee table. If I was in a social situation I don't think I be bothered.

Nevyn

The joy of being bi and people thinking they have your sexual gender prefernece sussed out already.

Vinnie69

I worked in a company once and this guy decided to "come out" with a vengeance. He screamed "gay rights" at every occasion -- so much so that a female colleague said to me "we all knew that he was gay but now he has become a boring gay" A few years later he married a woman and all the straights in the office were shocked !

So like most other posters are saying here, just take it easy and don't make an issue.:D

Vinnie69

Thaedydal wrote:

The joy of being bi and people thinking they have your sexual gender prefernece sussed out already.

Like the joy of posters here (including myself) thinking that you are male?

the_syco

Vinnie69 wrote:

Like the joy of posters here (including myself) thinking that you are male?

Not get the memo? All internet users are male:D

In college, there was a certain lad who we all thought was gay. Acted gay, etc. Turned out he was bi, but he only "came out" to a few of us in a nightclub, then let the rest know later. TBH, no-one except one of the class gave a sh|te. And that one person was a bas*ard anyhoo's, so no-one cared what he said.

Boston, I think I met you at a beers before, but not sure. Unless your camp, no-one will wonder if you're gay or not.

Saying that, in one of my old jobs, there was one gay. He didn't prance around saying that he was gay, but since he was in an office full of women, they could all relax around him, as they were all interested in the same thing:D:D:D

What I'm saying is, from conversation and gossips, you'll know how the work place will treat you if you come out.

azezil

I tend to avoid mentioning it in general these days (I know what irony compared to a couple of years ago ), I won't deny it but don't go out of my way to bring it up either, for example if someone asked me what I did over the weekend, I'd just answer "Ah just went out for a few beers with mates", if they ask where, I'd just say "in town..." and leave it at that.

I'd say most of the people I interact with on a day to day basis know by now (nearly 1.5yrs working here), it may have come up in conversation from time to time, usually on an individual basis, but when we're sitting in a group they don't bring it up, I think they might feel I'm uncomfortable with it heh, couldn't care less, I'd just rather not dwell on it!

the_syco

azezil wrote:

I tend to avoid mentioning it in general these days

o.O

azezil

Offline clearly ;P

imonboards

Rev Hellfire wrote:

I'm not sure there's an actual need to formally come 'out' in the work environment, most professional people keep a degree of separation between both their work and private lives.

That's how I see work.

aaronquigley

Boston wrote:

I'm wondering if, when and how I should approach this topic.

Casually I would say as you get to know people whom you might consider friends rather than just colleagues.

Boston wrote:

I never liked the whole coming out thing as I usually make a complete arse of the process.

I recall someone I worked with "coming out" to everyone to make a point.
It was so forced.

Boston wrote:

So is there a need to bring sexuality into the work place?

Not as all. However, if you click with your work colleagues in a social manner or you like to share your social-side then it might come up?

I'm a lecturer, so University-land is a little different but in Ireland I work
with some big companies on a consulting basis and I've never had any
reactions. People at work tend to focus on the job I'm doing.

People start talking about their wife I mention my partner. Sometimes they
say what does she do? I say well he is an administrator. It's just run of the
mill stuff and as far as I'm concerned it's the same as someone telling me
about their wife/husband/kids.

Of course these days he gets invited to all the work events as my partner.
Not that he considers this a good thing :-)

Room full of academics == geek-fest.

Good luck with moving into the working world,
Aaron.

Boston

Hello Aaron, long time no see. I'll more then likely be doing a Phd so I'll be staying in university land for awhile yet.