How to beat the knit army

pok3rplaya

Inspired by a CR video I just watched.


TEH MOVES

1)

What robin lacey talked about in the reraising pf thread. Smooth calling raises with AA/KK/AK pf hoping to get squeezed and value town some mfers.


2)

Just watched a CR vid where TC talked about this. Limping AK in EP pf with aggressive players to act behind us. Hopefully the action goes like this: we limp, TAG raises and one of these things happen::

a) people in the blinds call and we reraise preflop taking down the pot or flopping for stacks
b) nobody else calls and we:

---

(i) miss the flop and c/r the TAG guys continuation bet (we look like a set)

---

(ii) hit the flop and play like the strong deceptive hand we are

I'm thinking this move will be obvious and therefore we gotta balance by limping low pairs (suited connectors anyove?) in EP.


3)

Bluff raising scare cards. TAG raises on Button. We call in the BB. flop is low cards (one over like a J perhaps) and we c/c a bet. Turn comes an Ace or King. LOL every TAG in the world knows to bluff this card so what we gotta do is c/r the isht out of his bet. Even if he has acutually hit the A/K his hand will feel face up and vulnerable. Push river anyone (perhaps not)?


4)

Floaters. Lots of people float these days. This means you gotta be c/r'ing the turn lighter then you think you should. Continuation bet the flop, get called and pick up a FD on the turn? C/R that thing. Obv this isn't a bad line to do with good hands too and balance is always good.

There is arguments for c/c'ing the turn with second pair and stuff vs floaters too.


5)

cbets. Everyone cbets too much these days. You should float people with pairs. Got a gutshot? c/r or raise his cbet. Increace you're flop raising frequency so your sets get paid off more often.


6)

I am a TAG. When I have AK TPTK and I get raised on a dry flop my unimaginative standard line is to call the raise, call or fold the turn and always fold the river. Fell free to bluff me using this line. I'm sure at least 60% of nitty players will let you do the same.


7)

pf 4 betting. Do it. I cant tell you the right frequency you gotta work that out for yourself.

a) best hand for it is AK OOP. should be pretty standard.
b) I would rather 4bet KK then AA


WHAT TO DO

Please post your ideas here for how to take advantage of the multitablers.

If you are a multitabler, please list in this thread common spots that you get into where you think someone is expliting you or could exploit you if they paid any attention. We will then devise a line which will exploit you (for use against other people).


gogoogogogoog postpost

robinlacey

interesting post.i've been up all night and am fairly tired so i don't have anything to add just now,but i'll put up my thoughs on what you've posted so far.

1) this is clearly a great mind at work,whoever this robin lacey character is,he must be working on some level beyond that of the mere mortal.from the little information you give about him i suspect that he is also devestatingly witty and handsome.

2) interesting idea.the only problem i have with it is that i never open limp,and if i were to start i would have to change loads of stuff about my game,and the last major changes i made to my game are still wrecking my head,since i've been running bad ever since and am finding it hard to figure out how effective the changes have been.

3) i'm not sure about this one,i'd want to be fairly certain villain is firing loads of second barrells,the trouble with this idea is that a lot of people will call the turn check raise to see what you do on the river,so you have to start pushing the river a lot if you do this often,and this is going to make your game very volatile,plus it will take a long time to figure out if this is actually working or not.probably a good idea against good agressive opponents every so often,but i think its one to use only every so often.

4)i usually check raise if i turn a draw and am out of position,trouble with this is you have to push the river quite a lot even when you miss,i think,presuming you are playing against tight regulars.

you do also,as you suggest,have to check call the turn against persistent floaters with weakish hands quite a lot the way the games have been going recently,knowing when to do so and how often is one of nebulous feel/table rhythm things i'm always ****eing on about.

incidentally,whenever i suspect that a turn check raise is some sort of elaborate anti-float mechanism and call it down lightish,they always have the nuts.could just be varience though.

5) i float a lot less than i did six months ago,i think a lot of people have copped on at this stage.raising the flop as a total bluff or with middle/bottom pair or a weak draw seems to be the new floating,and you need to do it quite a lot these days,usually on dryish but not too dry boards.

you can only get away with it on very dry boards against fairly mediocre opponents,since good players will be often know that you're not raising your sets on Q72 rainbow boards.

it worries me that this is the way the games are going,at this rate by july four bet pushing the flop with a middler will be old hat.

6) i dunno,you have to know your opponent quite well to get away with this,plus check raise bluffing in general is just a crap spot to be in since you have to keep at it on the turn and river a lot and you have very little information. plus a lot of tight regulars are a little bit more inclined to call than you think they should be when you are talking yourself into some heroic multi street bluff.sometimes they aren't disciplined enough to fold,but also sometimes they will suspect that something is up,especially if you are doing all the other things mentioned in this post on a regular basis.

in position is probably better but i wouldn't want to use this move too much.

7)i wish 4betting wasn't becoming so necessary but it is.i don't know what you mean about preferring to 4bet with AA than KK,i think you should be 4betting often enough that you can 4bet with AA and KK almost the time when you are out of position and often enough in position.

pok3rplaya

robinlacey wrote:

interesting post.i've been up all night and am fairly tired so i don't have anything to add just now,but i'll put up my thoughs on what you've posted so far.

Props to those of us who have been up all night. I'm 22 hours awake, almost 3 thousand dollars lighter and counting.

robinlacey wrote:

1) this is clearly a great mind at work,whoever this robin lacey character is,he must be working on some level beyond that of the mere mortal.from the little information you give about him i suspect that he is also devestatingly witty and handsome.

Well to my well trained eye he looks rather homeless but each to their own I guess!
I've been having doubts about this whole shebang tbh. Mainly because in order for it to work well we need rather specific conditions and a sick read on the guy who is supposed to be doing the squeezing. Also I feel it loses value in games which are so 3bet heavy where we want to be 3betting with our good hands.

robinlacey wrote:

2) interesting idea.the only problem i have with it is that i never open limp,and if i were to start i would have to change loads of stuff about my game,and the last major changes i made to my game are still wrecking my head,since i've been running bad ever since and am finding it hard to figure out how effective the changes have been.

Yes this always happens me too. Move up = run bad. Tweak game = run bad
I don't think it would require too much changing. Perhaps limp 22-55 in the UTG and MP. The odd KK limp once in a blue moon.

robinlacey wrote:

3) i'm not sure about this one,i'd want to be fairly certain villain is firing loads of second barrells,the trouble with this idea is that a lot of people will call the turn check raise to see what you do on the river,so you have to start pushing the river a lot if you do this often,and this is going to make your game very volatile,plus it will take a long time to figure out if this is actually working or not.probably a good idea against good agressive opponents every so often,but i think its one to use only every so often.

Understood but I think you underestimate the frequency with which TAGs are bluffing turn scare cards.

robinlacey wrote:

4)i usually check raise if i turn a draw and am out of position,trouble with this is you have to push the river quite a lot even when you miss,i think,presuming you are playing against tight regulars.

Huh? With 100bb stacks the turn is usually a check/push.

teresting post.i've been up all night and am fairly tired so i don't have anything to add just now,but i'll put up my thoughs on what you've posted so far. [/QUOTE]

Props to those of us who have been up all night. I'm 22 hours awake, almost 3 thousand dollars lighter and counting.

robinlacey wrote:

1) this is clearly a great mind at work,whoever this robin lacey character is,he must be working on some level beyond that of the mere mortal.from the little information you give about him i suspect that he is also devestatingly witty and handsome.

Well to my well trained eye he looks rather homeless but each to their own I guess!
I've been having doubts about this whole shebang tbh. Mainly because in order for it to work well we need rather specific conditions and a sick read on the guy who is supposed to be doing the squeezing. Also I feel it loses value in games which are so 3bet heavy where we want to be 3betting with our good hands.

robinlacey wrote:

2) interesting idea.the only problem i have with it is that i never open limp,and if i were to start i would have to change loads of stuff about my game,and the last major changes i made to my game are still wrecking my head,since i've been running bad ever since and am finding it hard to figure out how effective the changes have been.

Yes this always happens me too. Move up = run bad. Tweak game = run bad
I don't think it would require too much changing. Perhaps limp 22-55 in the UTG and MP. The odd KK limp once in a blue moon.

robinlacey wrote:

3) i'm not sure about this one,i'd want to be fairly certain villain is firing loads of second barrells,the trouble with this idea is that a lot of people will call the turn check raise to see what you do on the river,so you have to start pushing the river a lot if you do this often,and this is going to make your game very volatile,plus it will take a long time to figure out if this is actually working or not.probably a good idea against good agressive opponents every so often,but i think its one to use only every so often.

Understood but I think you underestimate the frequency with which TAGs are bluffing turn scare cards.

robinlacey wrote:

you do also,as you suggest,have to check call the turn against persistent floaters with weakish hands quite a lot the way the games have been going recently,knowing when to do so and how often is one of nebulous feel/table rhythm things i'm always ****eing on about.

yes. Table image.

robinlacey wrote:

5) i float a lot less than i did six months ago,i think a lot of people have copped on at this stage.raising the flop as a total bluff or with middle/bottom pair or a weak draw seems to be the new floating,and you need to do it quite a lot these days,usually on dryish but not too dry boards.

you can only get away with it on very dry boards against fairly mediocre opponents,since good players will be often know that you're not raising your sets on Q72 rainbow boards.

it worries me that this is the way the games are going,at this rate by july four bet pushing the flop with a middler will be old hat.

Agreed.

robinlacey wrote:

6) i dunno,you have to know your opponent quite well to get away with this,plus check raise bluffing in general is just a crap spot to be in since you have to keep at it on the turn and river a lot and you have very little information. plus a lot of tight regulars are a little bit more inclined to call than you think they should be when you are talking yourself into some heroic multi street bluff.sometimes they aren't disciplined enough to fold,but also sometimes they will suspect that something is up,especially if you are doing all the other things mentioned in this post on a regular basis.

in position is probably better but i wouldn't want to use this move too much.


Yeah you are probably right.

robinlacey wrote:

7)i wish 4betting wasn't becoming so necessary but it is.i don't know what you mean about preferring to 4bet with AA than KK,i think you should be 4betting often enough that you can 4bet with AA and KK almost the time when you are out of position and often enough in position.

Looks like I need to push up my 4betting frequencies in that case. What I was saying is that I rather 4 bet with KK then AA because there is more chance of KK being ruined by seeing a flop then AA.

Thank you for your input.

pok3rplaya

Another excellent pok3rplaya bounces off robinlacey bounces off pok3rplaya thread if I do say so myself cough cough.

LuckyLloyd

This post has been deleted.

phantom_lord

UnLuckyLloyd wrote:

(Robin = Homeless = truth = lol!!).

this is something I've been thinking about a little bit recently, and there's certainly times when I play I'm thinking someone's exploiting my play cause I'm playing 12312512412 tables. I'll think about them and come back later.

Before most opponents were easily exploitable, people simply played to loose so all you had to do to be a winner was play tight. But most players have their pf ranges pretty goot now, open up even low levels on ft and see multi-tabling 21/17/2 tags everywhere, so we have to look at other areas for edges, like 3betting ranges or whatever, but even guys at .5/1 on ft have that pat, so we have to look further and deeper into the game to find edges and exploitable plays.

still, there's simple stuff tho, like how most people c-bet too much, i used to auto c-bet almost regardless of the situation, but that's a pretty big leak, esp when you're running bad, so it's something I'm adjusting, and at the same time I'm calling people down a lot lighter, but this is difficult to do against people who fire 2-3 barrels. So we should c-bet less, but be inclined to fire more barrels when we do.

I posted this thread just thinking about something, we're expected to have ak here, or some sort of one pair hand. it should be really easy to play against someone when u know their holding. in a sense the bb should c/r any two and shove turn or whatever, knowing that ak can't really stand that pressure against a standard tag. somewhat like what happened in that AA hand I posted yesterday.

1)

What robin lacey talked about in the reraising pf thread. Smooth calling raises with AA/KK/AK pf hoping to get squeezed and value town some mfers.

The games I play in aren't aggressive enough pf for me to do this so I can't really comment on it, i guess it would cut down their 3betting frequency a bit, and make u a more tricky player to play against, but i dunno if it's worth it.

anyway, yeah, I've college work to be doing, so I'll come back later when/if I've something goot to add.

fuzzbox

Instead of battling the TAGs with agression, battle them with passivity ... discuss ....

Really - TAGs are TAGs cos they play Tight and Aggressive. But that means that their average starting hand is reasonably good.
Instead of trying to out Aggro them, prefer calling them (in position) and floating all sorts of dangerous flops (with some outs yourself, but not necessarily all of the outs).

So you have 45s, and TAG opens, call. Flop 4d9hKh, TAG bets, well you call, planning to bet if he checks, bluff the hearts (sometimes you need to fire twice here), and maybe get paid if you improve and he actually has AK.

And stuff.

Comments?

pok3rplaya

Well I think thats a bad example because raisig the flop with that hand wouldn't be all that good because we have showdown value vs his range anyway. I think where the real discussion comes about would be if we were planning on calling again on the turn unimproved. Then were are really using the TAGs own aggression against him. But again there is a thin line between calling off stacks with bottom pair and picking off aggro bluffs.

The idea of repping the Flush is a very valid point though. I think battling TAGs agains whom you have some FE it is very important to keep bluff outs in mind. For example say we have an OESD and are getting bet out of the pot by a TAG. It can be profitable to call him down if we think we can rep a flush (that we dont have) if it hits. Very solid play and something I personally dont do enough.

ditpoker

robinlacey wrote:

1) this is clearly a great mind at work,whoever this robin lacey character is,he must be working on some level beyond that of the mere mortal.from the little information you give about him i suspect that he is also devestatingly witty and handsome.

different robin lacey

ianmc38

too tired to reply now as im just awake, but some interesting points. will respond in a while.

Lafortezza

ianmc38 wrote:

too tired to reply now as im just awake, but some interesting points. will respond in a while.

This is excellent.

[nicK]

this could potentially change the way online poker is played, making the games much much more difficult and as such, should never be publicly discussed ever again..

ianmc38

pok3rplaya wrote:

Inspired by a CR video I just watched.


TEH MOVES

1)

What robin lacey talked about in the reraising pf thread. Smooth calling raises with AA/KK/AK pf hoping to get squeezed and value town some mfers.

This is something i've been doing alot of recently. If you have a TAG in the blinds or OTB, they'll squeeze a huge range. I've also been doing it with some other hands that I shove over the top of the squeeze with.

2)

Just watched a CR vid where TC talked about this. Limping AK in EP pf with aggressive players to act behind us. Hopefully the action goes like this: we limp, TAG raises and one of these things happen::

a) people in the blinds call and we reraise preflop taking down the pot or flopping for stacks
b) nobody else calls and we:

---

(i) miss the flop and c/r the TAG guys continuation bet (we look like a set)

---

(ii) hit the flop and play like the strong deceptive hand we are

I'm thinking this move will be obvious and therefore we gotta balance by limping low pairs (suited connectors anyove?) in EP.

Dont like this advice. I'll never open limp small pairs, SCs or AK and I dont think its ever a good idea.

3)

Bluff raising scare cards. TAG raises on Button. We call in the BB. flop is low cards (one over like a J perhaps) and we c/c a bet. Turn comes an Ace or King. LOL every TAG in the world knows to bluff this card so what we gotta do is c/r the isht out of his bet. Even if he has acutually hit the A/K his hand will feel face up and vulnerable. Push river anyone (perhaps not)?

Dont like this advice either. I rarely call a TAGs raise from the BB. If you cr the turn you're going to be playing a ridiculously high variance game on the river as you're going to have to shove a whole lot.

4)

Floaters. Lots of people float these days. This means you gotta be c/r'ing the turn lighter then you think you should. Continuation bet the flop, get called and pick up a FD on the turn? C/R that thing. Obv this isn't a bad line to do with good hands too and balance is always good.

There is arguments for c/c'ing the turn with second pair and stuff vs floaters too.

Aren't too many floaters in the games i play, but just balance c-betting frequencies on flop and turn with the way you bet your TPTK hands/sets etc.

5)

cbets. Everyone cbets too much these days. You should float people with pairs. Got a gutshot? c/r or raise his cbet. Increace you're flop raising frequency so your sets get paid off more often.

Yeah this is happening alot more. I raise tonnes of crap on the flop against people with high c-bet frequencies. Again, this is why the delayed c-bet is so important.

6)

I am a TAG. When I have AK TPTK and I get raised on a dry flop my unimaginative standard line is to call the raise, call or fold the turn and always fold the river. Fell free to bluff me using this line. I'm sure at least 60% of nitty players will let you do the same.

Puke. I used to do this, then realised how horrific it was. My new weak tight line with AJ+ is working out better than ever.

7)

pf 4 betting. Do it. I cant tell you the right frequency you gotta work that out for yourself.

a) best hand for it is AK OOP. should be pretty standard.
b) I would rather 4bet KK then AA

Yeah this is starting to come more into the games i play. All the TAGs are finally starting to 3-bet light preflop. I've been in a world of pain recently trying to decide what to do with 99 or AJo when i've been 3bet or squeeed. So far, I'm the only person who's been 4betting preflop with some mixed results so far.

WHAT TO DO

Please post your ideas here for how to take advantage of the multitablers.

If you are a multitabler, please list in this thread common spots that you get into where you think someone is expliting you or could exploit you if they paid any attention. We will then devise a line which will exploit you (for use against other people).


gogoogogogoog postpost

Playing more than one table doesnt affect me too much. I find the standard 4 tabling TAGs are easier to bluff because they play a very ABC game. Lots of exploitable leaks because they dont adapt to their opponents a huge amount postflop.

Captain Tom

great post.

pok3rplaya wrote:

3)

Bluff raising scare cards. TAG raises on Button. We call in the BB. flop is low cards (one over like a J perhaps) and we c/c a bet. Turn comes an Ace or King. LOL every TAG in the world knows to bluff this card so what we gotta do is c/r the isht out of his bet. Even if he has acutually hit the A/K his hand will feel face up and vulnerable. Push river anyone (perhaps not)?

great point.this is very important to grasp as you move up stakes.i think firing a second barrell here is very profitable too.lots of good tags will call/re-evaluate river as a default play and fold river a huge % of the time.

pok3rplaya wrote:

4)

Floaters. Lots of people float these days. This means you gotta be c/r'ing the turn lighter then you think you should. Continuation bet the flop, get called and pick up a FD on the turn? C/R that thing. Obv this isn't a bad line to do with good hands too and balance is always good.

There is arguments for c/c'ing the turn with second pair and stuff vs floaters too.

i think balance is probably the most important thing here.doing this too often or w/o reasonably strong reads isnt advisable imo.

pok3rplaya wrote:

5)

cbets. Everyone cbets too much these days. You should float people with pairs. Got a gutshot? c/r or raise his cbet. Increace you're flop raising frequency so your sets get paid off more often.

QFT

pok3rplaya wrote:

get paid off more often.

6)

I am a TAG. When I have AK TPTK and I get raised on a dry flop my unimaginative standard line is to call the raise, call or fold the turn and always fold the river. Fell free to bluff me using this line. I'm sure at least 60% of nitty players will let you do the same.

to kinda flip this point when i feel my hand is pretty much face up im much more willing to call down light vs good players.

jimbling

I really can't understand why more of these type of threads haven't surfaced on boards over the last few years... but I'm glad they're starting too now. Makes for interesting reading....

DeVore

it worries me that this is the way the games are going,at this rate by july four bet pushing the flop with a middler will be old hat.

Something I've been thinking about a lot too. By game theory, if the standard strategy swings too far one way, it becomes a profitable niche to play contra to that strategy and exploit it. Will calling become the new reraising??

Also, the adoption of the ultra aggressive "scandi" tactics seems almost universal now. Offline you can use reads to help identify when someone is moving with nothing or with the nuts. Online I'm not so sure what you can use... certainly nothing that gives you more then a few percent swing realistically. So, is the game becoming "gamblier" as a result of people who adopt this approach simply being more prepared to gamble?

Interesting thread, each point could be the start of a new thread in fact.

DeV.

hotspur

Slight hijack. I fancy watching some Cardrunners videos cause I'm gonna start playing hold em again seriously soon. Which ones can you recommend? Though frankly I consider it bad form to pay for any videos on your computer, these things should be pirated as a matter of decency, but I'll make an exception for the SbRugbys and GreenPlastics of this world.

pok3rplaya

basically just all of GreenPlastic and sgrugby's videos. The rest of the guys aint so good.

jimbling

DeVore wrote:

Something I've been thinking about a lot too. By game theory, if the standard strategy swings too far one way, it becomes a profitable niche to play contra to that strategy and exploit it. Will calling become the new reraising??
DeV.

That is the absolute beauty of the game of poker. I've gotten a bit bored with poker of late* and thinking about these sort of strategy's and where the trends currently are with what sort of players is what keeps me interested.

PS: This is also why I think boards needs an advanced strategy sub-forum. It would also group the threads in a logical manner so you can go back later and re-read relevant ones.


*although I am starting the feel the loss of the extra pocket money so may be getting back to the tables soon enough

pok3rplaya

DeVore wrote:

Something I've been thinking about a lot too. By game theory, if the standard strategy swings too far one way, it becomes a profitable niche to play contra to that strategy and exploit it. Will calling become the new reraising??

This is true. Problem is though that each concecutive swing seems to have decreacing deviation from the centrepoint (optimal play) then the previous one.

phantom_lord

jimbling wrote:

I really can't understand why more of these type of threads haven't surfaced on boards over the last few years... but I'm glad they're starting too now. Makes for interesting reading....

cause it's more productive to talk about folding aa pf, tls, how relevent/when to use pot odds. :rolleyes:

MrPillowTalk

If an aggresive player is in the blinds in your cutoff or button and you find 99+, AK AQ and its 2 bet from in front, dont compulsary 3 bet anymore the squeeze happy game these days will allow you to get a lump in preflop.

Obviously you need to vary this one.

jimbling

phantom_lord wrote:

cause it's more productive to talk about folding aa pf, tls, how relevent/when to use pot odds. :rolleyes:

lol... well the TL thread was my baby so I have to take responsibility for that. I still find it very interesting.. especially since there is such a massive divide on peoples views on it (even amongst the big guns)
anyway, lets not hi-jack this thread any more.

continue........

jimbling

phantom_lord wrote:

cause it's more productive to talk about folding aa pf, tls, how relevent/when to use pot odds. :rolleyes:

jimbling wrote:

lol... well the TL thread was my baby so I have to take responsibility for that. I still find it very interesting.. especially since there is such a massive divide on peoples views on it (even amongst the big guns)
anyway, lets not hi-jack this thread any more.

continue........

lmao... I hand't actually seen the thread in question when I posted this.
:eek: :eek:

sikes

Nice posts again good work!

1)I have never attempted to induce a squeeze in a cash game, becuase, bar FTP, the games I play arent aggro enough. In tournaments I do it a good bit and a concept that I think i first read in a Rizen article a good few months ago.

2) I like the play and the reasoning behind it. Of course this is something that was introduced by our very own MrPT, i do believe.

3) Not so good because we cant just bloat hoping for a scare card. Perhaps if we lead any non scare turn too.

5) abusing players cbets is great fun. mini raising is enough on the flop to take it away usually less than the pot, becuase we still have more behind the threat of future bets is enough for the tag to drop so much.

MrPillowTalk

On the subject of c-bet frequency, with the move in the game lately, you should still be c-betting but you shold be delaying to the turn much more than in times past.

Cool thread

Captain Tom

MrPillowTalk wrote:

On the subject of c-bet frequency, with the move in the game lately, you should still be c-betting but you shold be delaying to the turn much more than in times past.

Cool thread

good point.this is something ive started doing very frequently in the last 2 months.your fold equity seems to rise dramatically when you do so.i think it kinda reps a marginal hand thats probably ahead looking for pot control.

opr

Great read lads.

I think if we could open up a advanced strat forum it would be a really big help in terms of discussing things like this. So many of these discussions end prematurely as the thread gets buried under the other crap.

I think it would also encourage more posting on topics such as this. I think the golden age of 2+2 was when the signal to noise ratio was high and thats not the case anymore. These days the better posters don't seem to want to share or discuss advanced aspects of the game in as much details as in the past ........ due to the games being tough enough already. So stuff like this needs to be discussed and argued about more between ourselves in threads like this.

We have some amazing posters here at the minute ....... some of whom i think are becoming ever more disillusioned with the stagnant nature of the things.

I think its a natural progression that as the players who read the forum have evolved and become better so should the forum.

My 2c

Opr

fuzzbox

With regard to delayed C-Bets ... I do this a lot for sure (especially these days). However, I really think we need to check reasonably strong hands and strong hands on the flop sometimes, and then bet/raise the turn with these hands too, in order to disguise that we dont just have a weak hand when we check the flop back, and bet the turn when checked to.

pok3rplaya

I've always been under the impression that delayed cbets get called more often. I figured bacause it looks more suspicious and villan has more chance of hitting 4 cards then 3 basically. I'll experiment with them a bit today and see how things go. Any one want to go into more detail about their strategy?

pok3rplaya

Just thought of something else now actually: pot control lines.

I like to check the turn behind with lots of my marginal hands. Even of FD boards vs one player and stuff. I like to do this because so many people love to raise the turn with their sets and other reasons. Then I'll bet safe rivers.

In contrast, I love to bet the turn with my monsters, my sets, 2 pairs etc.

So basically what this means is that anytime I check the turn behind and then bet the river, you can be 80% sure that I don't have a monster hand.

MrPillowTalk

pok3rplaya wrote:

I've always been under the impression that delayed cbets get called more often. I figured bacause it looks more suspicious and villan has more chance of hitting 4 cards then 3 basically. I'll experiment with them a bit today and see how things go. Any one want to go into more detail about their strategy?

Its like fuzz says you have to show up with a strong hand enough to make it profitable, main reason I do it is to bring a change of pace to my play if I feel Im starting to have my bets called on the flop regularly just to see if I double barrell.

On pot control lines, how I play the turn changes during the session depending on how the table is adapting to my play on the flop. If my cbets are getting called a lot and I feel a craise coming on the turn I check behind hands with showdown value and bluffs and then depending on the river value call value bet or fold, its a good way to get low risk value out of floaters who will take a stab at the river or call us with a weaker hand.