I missed my court-date, what will happen me?? anyone know

peteburnshndbag

Hypothetically, if someone was to appear in court for not producing their drivers license/insurance in garda station on time, and they failed to turn up on the day

Does anyone know what would happen generally for not appearing on the day??

Thanks

Our man in Havana

You were most likely convicted in your absense and fined. You should get a letter in the next few days saying how much, otherwise check the local papers or call the district court office.

johnnyskeleton

I wonder is there a garda somewhere logging onto some garda chat room saying "I never went into court for that no licence/insurance thing today. Nice guy. I wonder did he show up?":D

Can't give advice here; I wouldn't want solicitors to go hungry.

dermot_sheehan

Go to district court and find out what result of the case was. You receive an automatic minimum 1 year driving ban for no insurance and probably a very substantial fine!!! If you file an appeal to the circuit court within 14 days the ban and fine is stayed however. Showup for the circuit court hearing with your insurance certificate covering the relevant period and driving licence and grovel profusly and you'll get acquitted (assuming you had a driving licence and valid insurance at the time you were stopped).

By ignoring the order to produce and the district court date you have turned what is a simple administrative matter into a major problem. The court would convict you of driving with no insurance and no licence if you didn't show up to produce them. As I stated previously they are serious offences, with a mandatory ban and endorsement for 3 years for the no insurance one.

Our man in Havana

Just a slight sidebar. Do many people lodge appeals simply to stall driving bans? I.e. the appeal would have little/no merit.

dermot_sheehan

Not sure how many people do, but the advantage of a circuit court appeal is its a trial de novo. You basically have a second bite at the cherry, the state has to prove everything again beyond a reasonable doubt, guards can still miss trial dates.

Since its a completly new trial the judge imposes a new sentence which could be more or less severe then the one imposed by the district court. So its a second chance but a bit of a gamble.

wyndham

gabhain7 wrote:

Go to district court and find out what result of the case was. You receive an automatic minimum 1 year driving ban for no insurance and probably a very substantial fine!!! If you file an appeal to the circuit court within 14 days the ban and fine is stayed however. Showup for the circuit court hearing with your insurance certificate covering the relevant period and driving licence and grovel profusly and you'll get acquitted (assuming you had a driving licence and valid insurance at the time you were stopped).

By ignoring the order to produce and the district court date you have turned what is a simple administrative matter into a major problem. The court would convict you of driving with no insurance and no licence if you didn't show up to produce them. As I stated previously they are serious offences, with a mandatory ban and endorsement for 3 years for the no insurance one.

The ban is not mandatory.

From the National Safety Council:

Q. How are penalty points for no insurance imposed?

Driving without insurance is generally punishable by a fine of up to EUR2,500, disqualification of one year or more for a first offence and two years or more for a second offence, and, at the discretion of the court, a term of imprisonment not exceeding six months.

In the case of a first offence of driving without insurance, the court may decide in special cases not to impose a period of disqualification or to impose a period of disqualification of less than a year. Since 1st June 2003, where the court decides not to impose a disqualification drivers convicted of a first offence of driving without insurance will incur 5 penalty points on their licence record in addition to any other penalty imposed by the court.

The commission of a second offence for driving without insurance leads to an automatic disqualification.

In addition, it should be noted that where a member of the Garda Síochána believes that a mechanically propelled vehicle being used in a public place, which is registered in the State, is being driven without insurance, the vehicle may be impounded.

cast_iron

Bond-007 wrote:

Just a slight sidebar. Do many people lodge appeals simply to stall driving bans? I.e. the appeal would have little/no merit.

I would guess very few.
You can ask for a stay, and if refused you would need to be quite desperate to go to the expense of going through a fruitless appeal.
At the end of the day, one would just be delaying the ban (and any subsequent endorsement).

dermot_sheehan

The ban is technically called a consequential disqualification order and is provided by the section 26(5) Road Traffic Act 1994 http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA7Y1994S26.html.

(a) Subject to paragraph (b) of this subsection, the period of disqualification specified in a consequential disqualification order shall, where the person to whom the order relates is convicted of an offence under—

(i) section 53 of this Act tried summarily, or

(ii) section 56 of this Act,

be not less than 1 year in the case of a first offence under the section concerned and not less than 2 years in the case of a second or any subsequent offence under the same section committed within the period of 3 years from the date of the commission of the previous offence or, in the case of more than one such offence, the last such offence.

( b ) Where a person is convicted of an offence under—

(i) section 53 of this Act tried summarily, or

(ii) section 56 of this Act,

the court may, in the case of a first offence under the section concerned, where it is satisfied that a special reason (which it shall specify when making its order) has been proved by the convicted person to exist in his particular case to justify such a course—

(I) decline to make a consequential disqualification order, or

(II) specify a period of disqualification in the consequential disqualification order of less than 1 year.

It's mandatory in the sense that the judge is obliged to impose it, unless its a first time offence and the accused makes raises a special reason why the ban should not be imposed. Its akin therefore to the mandatory 10 years for s.15A (possession of more then €13,000 of controlled drugs with intent to supply), the penalty is mandatory but for a first offence can be waived if the accused raises a specific reason why it should not be imposed.

In this case, since the accused was not represented in court and could not have made represnetations as to why the ban should not be imposed, the ban would be mandatory (the judge would not have had discretion not to impose it)

445279.ie

Bond-007 wrote:

Just a slight sidebar. Do many people lodge appeals simply to stall driving bans? I.e. the appeal would have little/no merit.

No. You can have the disqualification postponed up to a maximum of 6 months from the date of court.

Therefore, appealing just for the sake of putting off the disqual is not necessary.

peteburnshndbag

Bond-007 wrote:

Just a slight sidebar. Do many people lodge appeals simply to stall driving bans? I.e. the appeal would have little/no merit.

Yes but if the person was insured at the time of offence, and they have the insurance cert which they will produce at the appeal.. is it not worth appealing even then
The only thing wrong was the drivers license was out of date by a few months, but they have a new, current in-date license at present..

Does anyone know what would be likely to happen with an appeal on this?

kbell

Correct me if i'm wrong but in order for a licence to be valid, then it has to be in date??
Meaning when you were stopped then you had no licence.
And in order to have insurance you must posess a valid licence for the type of vehicle you intend to drive, meaning you wern't insured either??
Just my interperation of this.

Our man in Havana

Nope. You are still insured if your licence is out of date.
All insurance certs have a line saying your covered "Provided the insured holds a licence or having held a licence and is not disqualified from holding a licence".

maidhc

peteburnshndbag wrote:

Yes but if the person was insured at the time of offence, and they have the insurance cert which they will produce at the appeal.. is it not worth appealing even then
The only thing wrong was the drivers license was out of date by a few months, but they have a new, current in-date license at present..

Does anyone know what would be likely to happen with an appeal on this?

Appeal. If there is an valid insurance certificate there won't be much hassle.

Get to a solicitor ASAP, or if you can't afford one go down to the district court offices and tell them your story.

peteburnshndbag

maidhc wrote:

Appeal. If there is an valid insurance certificate there won't be much hassle.

Get to a solicitor ASAP, or if you can't afford one go down to the district court offices and tell them your story.

Do you think there will be much trouble over the license being out of date by 5 months due to the person in question genuinely not being aware of
its out-of -dateness???

thanks

Our man in Havana

Slap on the wrist fine €50 I would expect.

peteburnshndbag

Bond-007 wrote:

Slap on the wrist fine €50 I would expect.

Really?? Is that all..

Even if the person is appealing a 1 year driving ban and a 500 fine for no insurance, another 500 fine for no license, and another 500 fine for no NCT cert??

Considering the person has a valid insurance cert for that time, and a vaild license though out of date by 5 months, and got their car NCT'd and has the report from it on which the car passed everything except a couple of visual defects (so still dont have a valid NCT cert but only cause cant afford to get the car fixed up just yet)....

Thanks

Our man in Havana

Still reckon you should escape with a slap on the wrist. Have you got legal representation?